I’m not so sure. The link to the prior estimate is a paper that measures the “blast zone”, which is the region around a lander where the reflectivity of the surface has changed. We have never known exactly what causes this change. Is it from gas blowing the dust texture flat? /1
2/ Or is it from blowing dust plowing across the surface? Or from engine shutoff when the last sputter of the engine cause a low velocity blanket of dust to fly out to a much smaller distance than normal? The problem has always been that this blast zone is *too small* to be…
3/ …the area where the dust finally lands, because the dust in rocket exhaust is going far to fast in low gravity to travel only that far. (We think we might know the cause now, but I don’t want to tell here since we will probably write a paper on it.)
So the prior estimate…
4/ …of the blast zone around the Vikram lander called it an “erosion halo”, which is fine. That’s just a different term for the same thing. The prior paper didn’t say what caused the erosion halo. The problem is that…
5/ …this news report today says the erosion halo (or blast zone) is the area where the dust “settled down.” That is wrong. It was only 145 sq m, so the radius is only 7 meters. Rocket exhaust blows dust much farther than 7 m.
Maybe the reporter didn’t understand what was said.
6/ The linked paper estimates the mass of soil (Msoil) that was blown by plugging the lander mass (Mlander) into a relationship I derived a few years ago:
Msoil = 0.762 Mlander^1.77
The Vikram lander was 1.752 tons, so it predicts 2 tons of soil were blown.
7/ This equation doesn’t take into account the lander engine configuration. I developed it assuming a single engine under the lander, firing until about 1 m altitude. It is possible the scientists studying the Vikram’s blown dust have developed a different method to estimate the
8/ amount of dust that was blown. Maybe they used landing imagery to calculate the density of the blowing dust or something similar. But if the estimate was based on the size of the erosion halo then i have serious doubts. For example, suppose that halo is the area where dust…
9/…was being removed from the surface (not where it settled as the news article says). If you know the depth that it was removed at each radius in the erosion halo then you know the volume of eroded dust. But you can’t measure that depth without knowing the shape of the terrain
10/…before the lander arrived, because it will be measured in millimeters to centimeters and the lunar surface naturally varies by more than this.
So the news article makes me doubt what it says. Hopefully there will be another peer reviewed article coming out to explain./end
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Lots of discussion today on space radiation including errors like this one. This has confused water with regolith. Using too thin a layer of *regolith* creates secondaries, increasing the dose. But using water, or PTFE (lots of hydrogen), even very thin, always reduces the dose/1
2/ The thing about using regolith for shielding is that you use it when you are on the surface of a planet, and there’s so much available and you do t carry it on a spaceship so you have no reason to use a thin amount. It entirely solves the problem!
And…
3/ …if you want shielding on your spaceship you aren’t going to use regolith. You’ll use water, food, rocket propellant — mass you need to carry anyhow — and low-density material designed for shielding with lots of hydrogen. And you can travel *faster* to reduce the dose, too.
1) The rocket exhaust is expanding into vacuum, so viscosity breaks down, so the gas does not obey the Navier-Stokes equation, which is the basis of CFD (computational fluid dynamics) models. /1
2/ When I was at NASA, one of the things I was doing was writing solicitations to industry to write physics-based code to do CFD without Navier-Stokes. There are many ways to treat the fundamental physics (the Boltzmann Transport Equation) and they all work for different…
3/…approximations, but it is really hard to write a code that will handle the full range of conditions from dense gas inside the rocket nozzle all the way to rarefied gas on the Moon far from the rocket.
2) We don’t understand turbulence when the gas becomes rarefied.
About how the lunar environment makes everything tippier…
1) I’m sure the CLPS contractors know this and designed for it. My point is that the Moon does this to your hardware, so when things go wrong (as they do) then tipping happens more often than on Earth. /1
2/
2) There are different ways you can tip. For static stability, gravity makes no difference. You fall when you are so tilted that the center of gravity (cg) is outside of your footpad. I don’t know where the Nova-C has its cg, but crudely it could handle ~54 degrees tilt.
3/
3) But for dynamic stability, gravity does make a difference. Imagine your vehicle is accidentally moving sideways at touchdown with velocity v. The energy of that motion is (1/2)m v^2 where m is the vehicle’s mass. The vehicle will fall over if that energy exceeds…
I finally submitted this paper to Icarus (planetary science journal). I split it into two papers: “Erosion rate of lunar soil under a landing rocket, part 1: identifying the rate-limiting physics” and “…part 2: benchmarking and predictions.” The breakthrough was in part 1. 1/N
2/ It took 8.5 months from the breakthrough while sitting at McDonalds until I got the paper done. 😭 I had to re-do it several times. 💀
I’m not keeping the info secret before publication, so I’ll go ahead and tell a little here.
3/ We tested jets of gas blowing soil in reduced gravity about 13 years ago. I did about 450 parabolas of lunar, Martian, and zero g, plus 2-g pullouts between parabolas where we did additional experiments. So we got 4 gravity levels.
This is a fun and fascinating thread. I’ll add one thought. Latif says that some objects are dynamical and move about but the “regular” planets & moons aren’t that way, but really it’s just a matter of timescales. Everything changes orbits. 1st read Latif’s thread then mine…🙂/1
2/ An example of a moon that changed orbits: Triton. It is currently a moon of Neptune but previously it was a primary planet orbiting the Sun directly (albeit a small planet…a dwarf planet like Pluto). Neptune captured it!
3/ Another object that may or may not exist, which *if* it exists then *definitely* changed orbits a lot, is the so-called “planet 9” (terribly misnamed so I’ll call it Planet X or PX). PX is thought by some to exist beyond the Kuiper Belt yet to be the size of Neptune.
This was a fun read but I have this response. The piece says that Turner’s Frontier Thesis is a strong motive of people who want to move civilization beyond Earth. But that’s not true. It is merely *adjacent* to the actual strong motives. Discarding it makes no difference. /1
2/ As the article explains. Turner’s thesis is that the US Western frontier created an open democratic society of self-reliant individuals with strong moral fiber. It says the western frontier values diffused back east to keep the rest of the US from falling into degeneracy, too.
3/ The article points out that the thesis has been discarded by historians for a number of reasons, and from reading this piece (which was my first intro to the topic) I agree with discarding it.
Also, it is true that you hear about the value of the frontier in space circles.