Thread by @tribunaltweets2

DAY 2 - will commence 10.15 am Syd/Australia Time
Abbreviations
J = Justice Robert Bromwich

Giggle's Counsel
BN = Bridie Nolan

COUNSEL FOR TICKLE:
GC = Georgina Costello
BG = Briana Goding

SG = Sall Grover
RT = Roxanne Tickle
CW = Colin Wright

AHRC - Australian Human Rights Commission
ZH - Zelie Hegel (counsel)
GE - Graeme Egerton
LR - Lara Renton

AHRC
ZH - Zelie Hegel

AC - Anna Cody - Sex Discrimination Commissioner

Further abbreviations:
LAAW - Lived as a women
TG-W - Transgender Women
GFGA - Giggles for Girls App

Counsels coming in - court is already full. Extra seats added for audience.

Giggle's Counsel has arrived, waiting on J (Judge Bromich) 10.15 am.

Part - 1 - Court in Session
J to GC cross examine of SG asks how long - 3 hours is that right.
GC says yes.
J - organises breaking cross examination of SG up.

GC asking to move this along to finish by Thursday.
J - discusses feasibility - due to consideration of all evidence. J - read all submissions - GC notes AC - Sex Dis' will be speaking.. however - framing given by witnesses. J - stating what is needed to get understanding

J - BD - discussing time frame.
BD (Bridie Nolan)- will be calling SG (Sally Grover, i.e Sall)
SG signed in , taking seat.

BD - asking name, occupation.
GC - discussing copies of evidence - screen or hardcopy.

GC - calls Sall 'Miss Tickle'
GC - Occupation CEO of Giggle asks for confirmation
SG confirms
GC - Jan 2021 - where living?
SG - Mendich.
GC - interaction with RT ? didnt you?
Do you remember excange with Ms Tickle don't you?
Put a post on twitter - sought support for petition

GC - asks content of post.
SG can't remember off top of my head
GC - look pg 164 of court book ..
GC can u see that's tweet from you? SG yes
GC how describe twitter bio
GC - would you like to check - can witness please check - J asks to check phone...

SG - Founder and CEO of Giggle
GC - has that way youve described last 2 yrs - been your role how long?
SG - app 2019, launch of 2020
GC - [reconfirming twitter bio. ] What did you mea
SG - single spaces for women -

GC - [talking about McIver Pools]
GC - reading the tweets - [ RT arguining that trans women are women - SG giving arguments about why women need single sex spaces (SSS)
GC - said RT - says males spaces terrifying - arguments for being in womens spaces - says RT

GC said - SG said - would treat RT as you want to be treated - confirms that SG and RT has been polite at all times havent they (SG says yes)
GC - would you call RT 'miss tickle'
sG - said no
GC - submit - [given all things RT did] thats not a kind a response

SG I don't think its kind to expect women to see
Ms Tickle is a biological male
GC - Ms tickle is a male -- RT shops at women stores
GC RT shops at women stores
SG doesn't know
GC asks again
SG - RT had femaile BD cert, hasnt she?
SG - yes
BN - Not for SG to comment on ..

BN - its not a matter that BD or SG can confirm that RT had genitalia surgery.
J -[ personal knowledge of the evidence - rather than personal proof] can make
GC to J- says this points to persistent discrimination for years [hence the series of questions ]

GC - arguing to J - why these series questions asked to prove - that SG persistent with misgendering
J - isn't the issue that SG doesn't accept that those processes a woman?
GC - yes your honor

GC - even if AMAB - has GA surgery, took hormones, change name, electrolysis, undergone facial reconstruction - shopped , wears woman, uses female change rooms, has bd cert - YOU DONT ACCEPT THAT PERSON IS A WOMAN DON'T YOU?

SG no
GC - suggest to you that is a woman
SG - don't aggree
GC in Feb 2021 - registered on Giggle App
And the process involved AI?

GC the AI recognised RT as Woman didn't it
SG -
SG - the purpose of ai to aid in gate keeping

GC sep 2021 - RT complained.
SG once user is blocked giggle doesn't take any inapp communication
- [SG and GC querying exact date]

GC - Look at pg 447 para 95 - your signature isn't it?
SG - Yes
GC - RT removed 0ct 2021 - SG agrees
J - trouble is the sentence - ambiguity
SG - [confirming when RT removed]- oct 2021, don't know if thats exact date of the removing
GC - reason for removing - it was decided RT

...decided RT not a woman - was coz - hadn't looked at photo till than had you? SG no
GC - [confirming that when moved ]
SG [ confirming actual date removed ]
GC - when do say seen photo
SG - various users saw - since many men were blocked [ explains the process]
GC RT evidence

...contacted you in Oct 2021 didn't have access, joined sep 2021 ?
SG - the block have happened before that - no communication wasn't received as backend not attached to the front end..

GC - Either RT filled in inapp form - or...
J -[trying to have clarity] - you can send a message doesn't mean it is received e.g. email to inactive address.
GC - moving on. RT sent a no. of emails, y?
SG - no recollection
GC looked preparing for case?

GC - so you remember right? When did you read emails of being removed from the act
BD - challenges
GC [rephrases question] When did you refresh memory
SG at challenge (?) for affadavit
GC look at 150 court book

GC - see 13 sep on pag 150?
How soon after that did you read it?
SG - I don't remember
GC - In matter of days or week?
sG - yes?
GC - look at p153 - See para 18? RT says 4 Oc 2021 sent follow up - [2 ways] para 19, received a response email -request to get back - said RT

RT says SG asked for mobile to investigate - then lists dates on follow up apps - and not receiving responses.
RT attempted again - submitted a bug report for not getting on app - and further responses - not replied to..

RT then called SG 's mobile. RT makes more calls, txts , etc a number of times - recieved no response, complains SG left no voice mails or texts
tween 4 Oct - 8 followup emails - complains only recieved one response

GC confirms with SG
GC says 'you know RT where got your ph no. dont you?
SG no recollection of emailing the applicant
GC -did you see email talking about -(SG y) in the evidence.
GC so why saying didn't know where RT got ph
BN objects

J - a bit of lack of specificity in question GC
GC - have you ever said 'you dont know where RT got the ph no.?
SG - don't know
GC - would you agree at lest one occassion that you didn't know - SG - yes
GC - since Oct 23?
SG - I don't know how many interviews

GC you've given 20-50 interviews re RT
SG - given interivews on my exp.
GC - how many times talked about RT don't know where he got the ph called - can you (SG) guess?
BN objects
GC - how many times - estimate - you don't know where RT got that phone number? SG 10?

GC would you like to correct your affadavit
SG - No - I don't know thats where he got his number

GC - don't have alternative number?
[will expand off threadline]
GC - said you made a
SG - it is not in Giggle t&Cs to call personal no.

SG - receive 100s or 1000s of emails from users - read or deleted cant' cover
GC [ said creates a false imprerssion to say it scared you - to get calls from RT when didn't give phone]
GC how is RT not polite - in these communications
sG - not poliite to seed 8 emails -not polite

GC - the content was polite - tho?
[ looking at content of emails - sG etc.]
GC - look at 184 - before Oct - reads email.
GC - confirms that email signature contains SG's ph no. on it.
GC - reads RT emails -

GC - reading lots of emails -Do you agree with me thats polite emails SG?
SG - no
GC - then reads text messages - GC suggests that RT's communication is polite.
BN object
J - wrap it up
GC -RT is polite -SG not to me, no. GC txt is polite? SG - No

GC - to say RT is harrassing you -is unfair
SG - No other user ever called my phone
GC someone else call that would be polite
sG if didnt know them no

GC - normally polite?
sG - Emails mainly from males - abusing we don't get them from females
GC - if it was from a female you wouldn't find them impolite
SG - hard to answer coz i wouldnt be in ths position if RT was a female

GC - how much did giggle spend on making app
- -- about 386K - according to balance sheet , doesn't it?
GC - [confirming costs on app and confirming the following year, confirming amount borrowed, et.]
GC - asked who put up the money
SG - family and friends
GC - ppl expect ROI?

GC - names of investors?
SG - uncle - and friends don't name off top of head
GC - how many?
SG - would say about 20
GC - did you issue shares - SG no
GC - loan from F&F right?
GC - plan was to be succesful
SG - plan to create an app 4 female only platform

GC also ROI - do you agree with me to also to make profit [asks this in different ways]
BN - objects J - rephrase
GC - SG your intention get ROI - to get back more than they invested wasn't it? They get money and profit ?
SG - was intention to pay back
GC - and get profit

SG - to make a female only platform
GC asks the question a # times - for investors to get money back - isnt't it?
SG No
Gc did you plan that they wouldnt get a profit
SG No - others asked for investors
GC - asking me questions a process I wsnt involved in

GC - queries as a CEO - should know
(sorry losing track of repetition)
GC - app is being rebuilt isn't it? SG-yes GC and you might rebuild app? SG-Y, GC and you'll need money SG- not looking at more at mo.
GC - company has received income 2-3 years hasn't it 2x

SG - no money given to Giggle - given to white holidings (?)
BN - can I just ask to be shown documents
J - agrees
GC - not hard to ask the question to ask the CEO
GC - has Giggle received income in financial year and 2023
SG - I don't know
GC look at page -?

GC - refers to balance sheet - looking at sales of goods -how did it earn income from sales of good
SG - CEO - surround myself ppl who handle money etc (paraphrasing)
GC - where does the money come from?
GC - what is Giggle selling -
SG - 2021 in apps purchases - 2022-23 dk

GC June 2023 end - agree Giggle is trading
SG - no coz there is no app
- I don't understand this -numbers - that is not my role - i have another
GC whats purpose of US trip, what did you say, when was trip
SG - was being taking to court - lots of thing, march

GC did you say in those interviews in London - call RT - him / he and scary?
SG - yes
GC did you say he harrassed you? SG Y
GC - would you like to correct your view looking at the email copies?
sG - No

GC - you said bombarded by 1000s of men SG-Y
GC - you dn't know if TW do you?
SG know them men

Taking a 10 minute break. Apologies - lost some of convo - will summarise offthread.
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