PART 2 -
NEW ABBREVIATIONS:
du? = didn't you?
wua? = wouldn't you agree?
u = you
dk = don't know
Court starting to come back in...
GC - Crowdfunding questions - Giggle received via CR yes? SG yes.
GC - CF by website?
SG - No, by supporters.
GC - Who is it?
SG - she's anonymous
J - why want to know?
GC - drawing ties to funding and with Giggle's balance.
J - why do you need to know?
GC - do you know the name of the merchandise, email address, phone
SG - Y
GC - how many times a yr, a week
SG - 7
GC - does keep SG informed on money
SG - shes friends - we talk
GC - how much money contributed to CF
GC - did person show merchandise?
SG - showed t-shirt -said it was greatt
GC - did you discuss the sales / merchandise / from etsy story didn't she? - SG yes
GC and SG [discussing buying the t-shirt , how did she come across the store,]
GC - would you agree that some of merchandise is offensive?
SG - Can i have a look at it?
GC - court bk 285 pg.
GC - see 'sweaty balls team tickle candle'
SG - yes
GC - are you laughing MS Grover!
SG - understand that some would find it offensive
GC - do you understand deeply offensive to RT
SG - is subjective what is offensive to one is not to another
[not the question was asked a no. of times - that some would find this offensive]
GC page 249
GC - [describing the merchandise -various items - states that SG knows this person - on page 254 - see jumper ' Hes a man ' crewneck sweat shirt."
GC when did u come aware of this sweat shirt?
SG - know before affidavit GC - so giggle -receiving these funds sG - Only Team Gig CF
GC - where did you see it /
Never said don't sell offensive items dy?
SG - didnt tell her what to do
GC - don't take upon you to tell its not nice
SG -ppl come to own conclusions
GC - have you shared
SG - few occasions worn and retweeted in celebration of fab work of women
GC [ you shared the store / merchandise / and retweeted it to others / du?
GC - 'all profits go to
GC - line of argument that the funds of all this merchandise goes to teamgiggle.
SG - explains how Etsy workgigglecrowdfunder.com
[line of questioning to confirm that the supporter - money mostly goes to CF (crowdfunder)
GC - has a line of discussion on whether Team Giggle, Giggle, Gigglecrowdfunder (may check off threadline)
GC - and you Liked these tweets didnt u?
GC - 285 - do agree with me - the sweaty balls candle - you reposted it/
You agree with me offensive merchandise has been sold du?
SG - offensive is subjective
GC - reads a tweet supporting the sale of merchandise - referring to RT grubby man trying to get on app
GC [ referencing # pages - that SG reposted on merchandise that GC states is offensive ]
SG - only reposted the Giggle t-shirts.
GC - looking at more pages - 19 feb 2024 - the first lie...is you dont change sex...Nxt pg 11 - this page you liked the LAG tweet - and another tweet.
GC -[ lists tweets that say 'castrated man' - Sall fighting for rights - ]
GC - isn't this hurtful - e.g. castrated man'
BN -objects - sG leaves room
- puts argument - cross examination not appropriate - on asking questions of SG of what RT is thinking or feeling -
BN - is saying the repeated line - of asking continually the same question asked and answered - of guessing what causes offense to another (may have to clarify this off threadline)
GC - talking about aggravated damages - references RT complaints from pages.. 135
Correction that was GC - last tweet..
GC continuing - gives RT's complaints about the likes or tweets, interviews etc from SG and others hurt feelings.
RT upset greatly that RT is not a woman - very distressing, draining and hurtful & says led other people has said hateful posts
GC - says - hurts RT - quoting RT - that merchandise and breadth of reach of posts - makes RT suicidal
J and G - [discussing whats to be inferred / or not inferred of influence of Salls reach (?) will have to check off threadline.
GC -goal demonstrate will provide exhibits to prove hurts
J - objects to posts made by others not by SG herself
says GC is asking about what others have done - not sG.
GC summarizing what she has done - will be moving on.
GC [comments that SG has liked/reposted]
GC and J - moving on - will discuss what SG has done - J has to be distinction tween creating posts - as to liking and reposting/retweeting
SG brought back in
GC - SG - do u agree how twitter works [asking how retweet, likes, or looks etc GC confirming what appears on SG's twitter feed.]
GC how many followers?
SG - dk - probably 90k
GC - how many start or no.
SG - before 2020 didn't tweet had about 10 followers, didnt participate
SG - starting to tweet on GII concepts - coz of abuse online - had no voice other than twitter. So hence tweet
GC - asked again # followers in 2022
SG - approx 45 K
GC - dua? u have 93K followers {looked at phone]
GC - have u reg. posted about this case. SG-Y
GC - have u reg. posted RT a man
SG - clarifies no woman would have to take me to court to say that they're a man (roughly the quote)
GC - dua? that called RT a man -SG-Y
GC - that wanted female space SG - Yes
and spoke at media
GC - sky news , CPAC and asked for clarification
SG -Y
GC - some 20-50 interviews [lists online sites like Glinner, Sky News, Triggernometry etc. IWD etc]
GC -[ listing more places that SG has interviewed, and confirming that has been harrassed & afraid of the applicant] SG confirms
GC - looks at page - Giggles front page - 'you must be a female to use the app' -If court finds RT is a woman that means RT gets to use that app?
GC - would you tweet everyday?
SG - No - not every day not to saturate it
GC - 1000s, or 100s of tweets
SG - say - original posts - wouldn't be 100 (?)
Guessing 50-100
GC - looking at 196 court bk. referencing Mar 2022 - describes RT wanting to get on app 6 / 4 /23 - another tweet 'no to males'
[ listing other tweets - which tweets about rt or men]
GC - [listing tweets about other TW who have possibly discussed the case and SG's response ]
SG - specific tweet about men are not women.
SG - Confirming that the 'situation that only a man who needs to be a female in law is that they're not a female in reality "
GC confirming - that SG 'you can take me to court for not believing a man is a woman it would still not make me believe' (rough quote)
[GC line of questioning is listing quotes - which are about RT or general , SG confirms which specifically are about the situation in general, case specifically or that men can't be women]
GC more quotes like 'TW are not women.'
GC - asking SG to look at more quotes -
BN - pointing out at issue - the paper copies differ tween witness and the court.
GC - SG asking about UK trip - did she meet with Glinner, Helen Joyce - asks if HJ supporting CF?
GC - repeats HJ tweet -said supporting - and giving to CF
GC - so HJ is not indpendent voice is she...?
GC - What about Kathleen Stock?
GC - have you spoken to Colin Wright
Sg - messaged
GC what type?
SG - asked about biological facts - DSD - for e.g.
GC - when was that
SG - over the last few years -
GC asks if copy of communication - and how many times with CW
SG - not a friend -just asked questions re biology and then on my way
GC - [now asking for number of times posting about court]
Sg - at least one a day
GC - 30 cases in this month agree?
sG - yes
GC [ working out how many tweets per wk/month - before / after court case ]
GC - says its 100s and 100s tweet - and " its been YEARS hasn't it?"
GC - [confirming no. of posts over the year - to establish 100s in each year]
BN objects - questions asked already- asking again.
SG - doesn't count tweets don't know how many - Im guessing
GC -calls SG - Ms Tickle for 3rd time.
GC - asking again if it's 100s a 100s
sG - is clarifying the tweets are over a long time
GC again asks - have you tweeted 100s and 100s a time
SG - yes
SG moves out of the witness seat.
Will thread roll - @threadreaderapp unroll
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Good afternoon. This is the final session of Toshack vs GeoAmey. We expect to resume at 3pm. For Women Scotland vs Scottish Ministers continues on
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Mr Toshack (DT) asserts that he was dismissed because of his gender critical beliefs. His appeal against his dismissal was subsequently upheld. He is claiming harassment, discrimination and indirect discrimination on the grounds of his gender critical beliefs.
Good morning, this is the final hearing day of Toshack vs GeoAmey. For Women Scotland vs Scottish Ministers continues on @tribunaltweets
We expect to continue at 10 am with a final witness. The tribunal is expected to adjourn from approximately 11:30 then return to public session at 2:30 pm for any oral submissions.
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IO: A diff ET may have made a different decision doesnt mean this ET was wrong
LW: Unless they erred in law.
IO: If the parties had put an approach as to how provisions should be interpreted you cant go back on that
LN: I do follow but its really about the language of causation and its not obvious to me we are helped on that
IO: It would be wrong to suggest every conceivable argument was put by each side
LB: It was a 4 week trial. We are conscious we are focussing on a v small part of the case. Thats not itself an answer
IO: No but it does provide some explanation as to the paucity of detail in the
Good morning. The appeal of Allison Bailey v Stonewall re-starts this morning at 10.30am. The proceedings will also be live-streamed here: youtube.com/@RoyalCourtsof…
Allison Bailey’s skeleton argument: allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/upl…
Stonewall’s skeleton argument will be added to our substack should it become publicly available.
Abbreviations for today's hearing:
AB - Allison Bailey, the appellant is also referred to as ‘C’ for claimant
SW - Stonewall Equality Ltd, the first respondent, also referred to as ‘Stonewall’
IO Just in relation to the question asked about para 369 it is my submission is that the ET findings of fact for better or worse what is recorded there is what they heard and accepted and drew from it.
But there is nothing in decision that precedes or follows that wasn't open for them to make.
Para 370 374 some factors the ET took into consideration in reaching conclusions. My submission in that these matters were ET were entitled to have a view on.
BCRight and common ground that the term cause doesn't imply a conscious motive on the part of person A and that must be right or it would be inconsistent with emp law.
It is necessary to analyse the scope of obligation to find what the defend ought to be held for
the eat is wron
in my submission in supplying the test because as I have indicated the duty bearers need to know what it is they are and aren't allowed to do