Glenn Profile picture
Jun 22, 2024 17 tweets 6 min read Read on X
The EV sector industrial subsidy figures released last week by @CSIS are inflated by at least ~$80B, mainly from poor assumptions made to calculate the NEV Sales Tax Exemption that (i) don't pass the sanity check and (ii) are out-of-whack with disclosed actuals amounts.

🧵 https://www.csis.org/blogs/trustee-china-hand/chinese-ev-dilemma-subsidized-yet-striking
As disclosed in the CSIS analysis, the Sales Tax Exemption assumption is based on a very simple premise:

To incent purchases of NEVs (new energy vehicles i.e. BEVs+PHEVs) over ICE vehicles, most NEVs are exempt from the sales tax exemption, which is assumed to be 10%. Image
$39.5B of Sales Tax Exemption in '23 thus implies that there were at least $395B worth of NEVs sold in China based on CSIS assumptions.

Since we know how many NEVs were sold (~7.9M passenger and ~0.3M commercial), we can back out the implied average selling price (ASP).Image
CSIS discloses ASP assumption of ¥1.2M for large commercial vehicles. This would imply ~$54B in commercial vehicle NEV sales in '23, leaving $341B for light passenger vehicles.

Based on ~7.9M passenger NEVs sold in '23, this implies an ASP of $43k (¥310k). Image
This does not pass the sanity check, nor is it consistent with CSIS' own assumptions (passenger NEV ASP is ¥250k).

e.g. the best-selling models in China are compact and mid-size NEVs with ASPs in the ¥120-250k range.
In any case, we can also cross-check this assumption with actual disclosed figures.

The Ministry of Finance disclosed last year cumulative NEV Sales Tax Exemptions through 2022 of ~¥200 billion (~$29B) + another ~¥115 billion (~$16B) in 2023.

This suggests the CSIS estimate for Salex Tax Exemptions is overstated by 2.5-2.6xhttps://www.gov.cn/zhengce/202306/content_6888094.htm
Factoring in more accurate assumptions that are more in line with these actuals, I have done my own analysis on Chinese EV sector assumptions and arrived at ~$147B, ~$83B lower than the CSIS estimate. Note: the difference in Sales Tax Assumption estimate accounts for ~$64B of the difference. The remaining difference comes from the Buyer's Rebate which is also overestimated, although much more in the ballpark. I have copied assumptions for infrastructure subsidies, R&D and government procurement.
Based on this, more interesting is what happens going forward IMO.

Per below, the NEV Sales Tax Exemption has been extended for 4 more years, but like the Buyer's Rebate before gradually eases out.

For example, the maximum exemption halves in 2026 to ¥15k per NEV.
https://www.gov.cn/zhengce/202306/content_6888094.htm
https://www.adamasintel.com/china-ev-buyers-get-four-more-years-tax-breaks-as-us-incentives-fall-flat/
I've taken the EV sector subsidies analysis out through 2030 assuming the Sales Tax Exemption is retired after this current program ends.

As you can see avg. subsidies per vehicle continue to fall gradually, from $2,700 in '23 to <$200 by '30. Image
If we take the model even further out to 2040, China will have spent ~$330B in total subsidies on the EV sector.

Paired against ~704M cumulative NEV sales through 2040, this would average out cumulatively to a subsidy of ~$468 per vehicle.
I think the lesson here is pretty clear and does not need overstated subsidy estimates to make the point.

The key to any successful industrial policy subsidy program is providing support to a domestic industry to achieve scale and profitability so subsidies can be gradually withdrawn over time.

The last point is key. If industrial policy and subsidies cannot achieve industry scale and self-sustaining profitability, you end up with a non-competitive sector that continues to suck up fiscal resources indefinitely.
The development of the Chinese EV sector has followed this principle.

Subsidies per car have fallen from >$20k per vehicle to ~$2k per vehicle over the last decade and will be effectively completed by 2027. Image
The question for Western policymakers is not about the need to develop and retain an EV industry using industrial policy and subsidies, like China has done. That should be pretty clear, the answer is yes.

It is about execution of said industrial policy. Specifically, are we seeing aggregate subsidies per NEV go down over time at a satisfactory pace?
Remember there are other new industries beyond EVs.

That China is a few years away from withdrawing subsidies from EVs just means that those fiscal resources will soon be available to support development of other future industries.

If one is stuck subsidizing old industries indefinitely this just means less fiscal resources available to spur development of new ones.
This is not the first time I’ve seen highly questionable assumptions in CSIS analysis on China.

Its analysis of COMAC development costs was even more egregious and off by 6-14x.

These numbers influence policy and decision-making. Isn’t it important that we get them right?
Bad analysis does enormous disservice to our policymaking.

13 years ago, Chinese NEV industry subsidies were scoffed at as “wasted investment”.

Instead of breeding complacency, maybe we should have taken them seriously. Catching up will be that much harder as a result.
Another interesting datapoint from this analysis:

~2/3rds of NEV sector subsidies were focused aimed at stimulating the consumer demand side with <1/3rd focused on production.

Nascent industries require coordinated stimulation of both supply and demand.

This also contradicts prevailing narratives about how China "focuses disproportionately on the supply-side at the expense of households/consumers".Image

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More from @GlennLuk

May 31
This popped up on my timeline and was just a reminder of some of the sillier narrative framing of Chinese EVs just a year and a half ago.
Since this post in January 2024, Chinese NEV production has increased from a ~10-11 million run rate to ~>16 million as of mid-2025 and virtually ALL of the increase has been absorbed by the Chinese market …
… as EV exports have been more or less flat.

This means Chinese households are buying EVs as fast as they can be produced in the factories.
Read 8 tweets
May 31
Chinese chip designers finding workarounds for EDA software is roughly the same degree of difficulty / switching cost as moving away from CUDA/nVidia.

This is an effort measured in months, not years.

eetimes.com/u-s-restricts-…
By comparison the advanced lithography ban was an OoM more complex/difficult and the switching cost process measured in years, not months.

That was the largest source of leverage in the American tech/economic dominance toolkit and it was played early.
The other comp here is developing a homegrown OS and attracting a developer base.

Replicating EDA software and supporting libraries is the same order-of-magnitude task.

The development takes years, but this effort was also started years ago, with real efforts kicked off after the Meng arrest in 2018.
Read 11 tweets
May 29
Can we please stop with this fiction that there are "only 2-3 profitable Chinese EV companies"?

I count at least 8 profitable NEV operations + CATL/Huawei. And it is the only market that is close to profitable selling NEVs at the sectorwide level after accounting for subsidies.
In 2023, the first year after Beijing ended buyer rebates, China's car sector sold an ~9.5M NEVs generating revenue of ~$233B ($24.6k ASP).

Sectorwide gross margin was ~21% (~14% ex-subsidies) with operating profit of ~1.4B (negative ~$21B after subsidies).Image
Note that comparable figures in the U.S. in 2023 were:

▪️ $66B in sector-wide revenue
▪️ $2.6B (4%) in gross profit (negative $13B, or -19%, after subsidies)
▪️ -$27B in operating profit (negative $42B after subsidies)

There was only one profitable operation before subsidies: Tesla. And after subsidies, Tesla's U.S. car operation was not profitable.

Indeed, I suspect the only solidly profitable segment of Tesla's car operations today (ex-subsidies) are its exports out of Gigafactory Shanghai.
Read 27 tweets
May 14
Saying Apple "invests $55B in China every year" is financially illiterate nonsense.

We know exactly how much Apple has invested in China, as it discloses annually in its annual 10-K.

Apple has cumulative investment in "Greater China" (includes HK/TWN) of $4.8B as of 9/2024.Image
Included in this $4.8B balance sheet figure are leasehold improvements on Apple Stores, "inventoy prepayments" and owned "capital assets at its suppliers' faciliities" like molds and specialized equipment sitting in Foxconn's factories. Image
Image
Again, the $4.8B represents the cumulative aggregate of long-lived assets that Apple has in China, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

And notably, Apple has been liquidating (a.k.a. converting to cash and repatriating) this tangible asset base.

This number peaked at ~$13B in 2019.Image
Read 13 tweets
May 7
The whole China-US supply-demand debate is polluted by shoddy economic reasoning and false narrative premises that have led to piss-poor strategy and policy implementation:

▪️ U.S. demand isn't fixed but driven by income (both wage- and capital-related), which is driven by productivity. Lower productivity — whether from trade war-related economic adjustments or retaliatory actions — will negatively impact income, which leads to lower sustainable demand.

▪️ The U.S.-China bilateral goods balance overstates the surplus as it does not account for offsetting deficits that China runs with other countries, the large FDI income and services deficits and other factors. Thus focusing on this metric has led policymakers to seriously overestimate the economic leverage American "demand" has over China.

▪️ Focus on China's "low consumption" has long been a red herring. It is demand — which like the U.S. and or any economy, is driven by income and productivity — that matters in the long run.

▪️ China's "low consumption" is mainly a function of its gross capital formation (GCF) levels being high. GCF is mostly domestic. And people forget GCF is merely a form of deferred consumption: all economic activity (GDP) becomes consumption at some point; "consumption" and "gross capital formation" are merely differentiated by the question of whether it is consumed now or consumed later. This concept might be less confusing if we properly referred to "consumption" in a GDP concept by its more accurate technical name, "household expenditures".

▪️ China's persistent "low consumption" or "low household expenditures" is not a function of debt or institutional "constraints" but policy choice that is largely underpinned by demographics: China's current labor force complements capital-intensive development. And Chinese housing and infrastructure buildout is not close to being complete.

▪️ That said, the former (labor force priority) is changing rapidly, driven by actual demographic change, automation and the trade war, all of which force costly economic adjustments on the economy.

▪️ The trade war-related adjustments lead to productivity boosts in the long run. Offshoring labor-intensive export processing work that dominates Chinese exports to the U.S. is what China needs to do in the long run to become an advanced, high-income fully developed economy.

▪️ Both the U.S. and China need to undertake costly economic adjustments in the short- to medium-term. The "winner" out of the trade war is the one that can (i) more rapidly undertake these adjustments and (ii) make the right adjustments that lead to productivity growth in the long run.
"U.S. demand isn't fixed"

There are many analysts out there — e.g. those who like to use the phrase "supplier of demand" — who seem to rather ignorantly assume that American demand is some constant, magical force without considering the fundamental sources of real demand, which is productivity and global trade ... and how the trade war might impact both of these.

The American economy is highly productive! A key part of productivity growth, particularly over the last three decades, has been the continuous rise of the American MNC, especially in sectors like technology/Internet and pharma.

American MNCs have gone out into the world and absolutely crushed it. Their rise drives the incomes of well-paid employees (mainly located in the U.S.) and capital income in the form of dividends, share buybacks and rising market capitalizations (which support persistent capital inflows).

Rising incomes support rising demand. American MNCs directly and indirectly enable American households to increase their purchases of physical goods from places like China.
The obvious corollary to this is that any relative decline in such a key source of rising American incomes will also correspondingly impact American demand.

For example, if China undertakes retaliatory action against American MNCs operating in China, generating hundreds of billions of dollars of revenue selling to Chinese households (not counted in the trade balance, by the way), then this will impact American income (and demand) in exactly the same way that the Trump tariffs forcing Chinese exporters to make painful adjustments.

American share of global demand would have to decline until American MNCs can find new markets, just like Chinese share of global supply would decline until Chinese exporters adjust their business models.

It's exactly the same, just involving different types of companies and reflected in different categories on the Balance of Payments.
Read 7 tweets
May 3
Simplest way to think of Huawei is that it has first pick (de facto monopsony) on elite STEM talent from the largest pool of STEM talent in the world and a culture and organizational & incentive structure that can efficiently re-allocate its R&D workforce to new product development adjacencies.

The NBA lottery is coming up so I will use that as an analogy.
From this perspective, it is analogous to a company like Samsung Electronics and TSMC — which hold similar “draft rights” on elite Korean and Taiwanese STEM talent** — but scaled up 20x and 50x, respectively.

** the Korean and Taiwanese equivalents of Cooper Flagg, Ace Bailey, VJ Edgecombe and Dylan Harper …
And in the United States, it is similar with Big Tech.

Companies like Google and Amazon can also expand into new product and service adjacencies because their financial gravity and brand prestige with prospective hires mean they have a disproportionate number of “first round picks” every year.

And on top of homegrown talent, the U.S. has the added benefit of attracting international STEM players through its leading university system.
Read 15 tweets

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