🧵 Debunking the Khazar Theory and Affirming Jewish Identity though Law
I keep seeing claims that Ashkenazi Jews descend from Khazarians, which is widely debunked by both historical and genetic evidence.
Requesting a blood purity test is not how Israelite-Jewish Law, known as Torath Moshe, operated for 2,000+ years.
Enforcing such an idea is more comparable to blood quantum laws used to establish a higher blood ratio.
This type of conversation is not healthy for the ongoing conflict, and I’ll explain why.
🧵 Here are the key points covered in this thread:
📜Response to Claims of Ashkenazi Ancestry
🧬Jewish Identity Beyond DNA
🔍Clarifying Misinterpretations of Jewish Identity
📚Historical and Cultural Continuity
🌍Shared Genetic History with Palestinians
🗨️Path Forward
As always, I am happy to debate and discuss.
I keep seeing claims that Ashkenazi Jews descend from Khazarians, which is widely debunked by both historical and genetic evidence.
Requesting a blood purity test is not how Israelite-Jewish Law, known as Torath Moshe, operated for 2,000+ years.
Enforcing such an idea is more comparable to blood quantum laws used to establish a higher blood ratio.
This type of conversation is not healthy for the ongoing conflict, and I’ll explain why.
🧵 Here are the key points covered in this thread:
📜Response to Claims of Ashkenazi Ancestry
🧬Jewish Identity Beyond DNA
🔍Clarifying Misinterpretations of Jewish Identity
📚Historical and Cultural Continuity
🌍Shared Genetic History with Palestinians
🗨️Path Forward
As always, I am happy to debate and discuss.
📜 Response to Claims of Ashkenazi Ancestry
The claim that Ashkenazi Jews descend from Khazarians is widely debunked by both historical and genetic evidence. Genetic studies show that Ashkenazi Jews have significant Middle Eastern ancestry, shared with other Jewish communities worldwide. The Khazar theory, suggesting mass conversion in the 7th century, lacks credible historical evidence and is often used to undermine Jewish ties to the land of Israel.
There is no credible evidence of major Khazar input. The Khazars were Turkic, and it would be apparent if there was significant genetic influence. Depending on the models, 10-50% of Ashkenazi ancestry is classical East Mediterranean Levantine. It's plausible that some Eastern Ashkenazi genealogy from Jews of Moravia, who assimilated into medieval Ashkenazim, might trace back to the Khazars, but this represents a very small percentage. Ashkenazi mtDNA lineage even traces back to a woman in Sichuan. The 10-50% interval depends on the specifics of non-Middle Eastern ancestry models. If Sicilians are considered European contributors, the figure leans towards 10%. If Northern Europeans are considered, it leans towards 50%. A balanced estimate might be 40% Middle Eastern, 40% Southern European, and 20% Northern European.
Visualizations often place Ashkenazi Jews closer to Lebanese populations, reinforcing their indigenous ties and challenging the anti-Zionist narrative. Some arguments claim Ashkenazi Jews are "only" 10-40% Levantine, with the remainder being Southern and Northern European. These claims aim to portray Israeli Jews as primarily European-descended invaders, ignoring the substantial population of non-European Jews in Israel.
This heavy reliance on DNA alone is too much. DNA is a good tool for uncovering history, but it is a small piece of a larger puzzle when trying to understand cultural identity and migration patterns. You lose the full story without analyzing history, linguistics, letters, etc.
🗒️ Worth Reading:
nature.com/articles/ncomm…
razibkhan.com/p/more-than-ki…
The claim that Ashkenazi Jews descend from Khazarians is widely debunked by both historical and genetic evidence. Genetic studies show that Ashkenazi Jews have significant Middle Eastern ancestry, shared with other Jewish communities worldwide. The Khazar theory, suggesting mass conversion in the 7th century, lacks credible historical evidence and is often used to undermine Jewish ties to the land of Israel.
There is no credible evidence of major Khazar input. The Khazars were Turkic, and it would be apparent if there was significant genetic influence. Depending on the models, 10-50% of Ashkenazi ancestry is classical East Mediterranean Levantine. It's plausible that some Eastern Ashkenazi genealogy from Jews of Moravia, who assimilated into medieval Ashkenazim, might trace back to the Khazars, but this represents a very small percentage. Ashkenazi mtDNA lineage even traces back to a woman in Sichuan. The 10-50% interval depends on the specifics of non-Middle Eastern ancestry models. If Sicilians are considered European contributors, the figure leans towards 10%. If Northern Europeans are considered, it leans towards 50%. A balanced estimate might be 40% Middle Eastern, 40% Southern European, and 20% Northern European.
Visualizations often place Ashkenazi Jews closer to Lebanese populations, reinforcing their indigenous ties and challenging the anti-Zionist narrative. Some arguments claim Ashkenazi Jews are "only" 10-40% Levantine, with the remainder being Southern and Northern European. These claims aim to portray Israeli Jews as primarily European-descended invaders, ignoring the substantial population of non-European Jews in Israel.
This heavy reliance on DNA alone is too much. DNA is a good tool for uncovering history, but it is a small piece of a larger puzzle when trying to understand cultural identity and migration patterns. You lose the full story without analyzing history, linguistics, letters, etc.
🗒️ Worth Reading:
nature.com/articles/ncomm…
razibkhan.com/p/more-than-ki…
🧬 Jewish Identity Beyond DNA
It’s frustrating to even entertain the nonsense regarding DNA and the Khazar theory because even if it had any historical or scientific basis, it would not be relevant to Israelite-Jewish Law, known as Torath Moshe, which is not a museum piece but a living, breathing legal institution.
We, as a people, have a well-documented history and a detailed legal framework that clearly defines who is considered Judean. We have a robust legal history from the Tannaitic era (≈10-220 CE).
Jewish identity isn't defined by Jews, non-Jews, or antisemitism but by the Tora, our constitution, and reinforced by our Sanhedrin (Jewish Supreme Court) for over 2,000 years. It's a legal and historical lineage, not a matter of personal interpretation. Every nation defines its citizenry (from the Japanese to the Lebanese to the Americans), and the Jewish nation ('ʿAm Yisraʾel') is no exception.
It’s frustrating to even entertain the nonsense regarding DNA and the Khazar theory because even if it had any historical or scientific basis, it would not be relevant to Israelite-Jewish Law, known as Torath Moshe, which is not a museum piece but a living, breathing legal institution.
We, as a people, have a well-documented history and a detailed legal framework that clearly defines who is considered Judean. We have a robust legal history from the Tannaitic era (≈10-220 CE).
Jewish identity isn't defined by Jews, non-Jews, or antisemitism but by the Tora, our constitution, and reinforced by our Sanhedrin (Jewish Supreme Court) for over 2,000 years. It's a legal and historical lineage, not a matter of personal interpretation. Every nation defines its citizenry (from the Japanese to the Lebanese to the Americans), and the Jewish nation ('ʿAm Yisraʾel') is no exception.
🔍 Clarifying Misinterpretations of Jewish Identity
Our lineage has been determined matrilineally for millennia (Book of ʿEzra 10:2-3). According to Jewish law, once someone joins our nation, they are a full member, with no distinctions like 'Jewish by blood.' The earliest case of "clean blood" laws goes back to the times of the Inquisition, known as Limpieza de sangre. Jews do not have "blood quantum laws," nor should we be forced to uphold these laws, especially when reestablishing our sovereignty. It's a concept alien to Jewish and broader MENA legal codes.
The term 'conversion' is a misinterpretation. It's more accurately about becoming a 'Ger' (stranger), akin to naturalizing in a new country, embracing the communal narrative and legal commitments. In the LXX translation (earliest non-Semitic translation) of the Bible, the word 'Ger' (גֵּר) is translated as προσήλυτος/proselytos, meaning a stranger or a 'newcomer to Israel,' as exemplified in 1 Chr. 22:2. The Judaic legal system runs parallel to tribal systems. Joining the Jewish people is akin to adopting the narrative and laws of the tribe, a commitment that transcends mere conversion.
Our lineage has been determined matrilineally for millennia (Book of ʿEzra 10:2-3). According to Jewish law, once someone joins our nation, they are a full member, with no distinctions like 'Jewish by blood.' The earliest case of "clean blood" laws goes back to the times of the Inquisition, known as Limpieza de sangre. Jews do not have "blood quantum laws," nor should we be forced to uphold these laws, especially when reestablishing our sovereignty. It's a concept alien to Jewish and broader MENA legal codes.
The term 'conversion' is a misinterpretation. It's more accurately about becoming a 'Ger' (stranger), akin to naturalizing in a new country, embracing the communal narrative and legal commitments. In the LXX translation (earliest non-Semitic translation) of the Bible, the word 'Ger' (גֵּר) is translated as προσήλυτος/proselytos, meaning a stranger or a 'newcomer to Israel,' as exemplified in 1 Chr. 22:2. The Judaic legal system runs parallel to tribal systems. Joining the Jewish people is akin to adopting the narrative and laws of the tribe, a commitment that transcends mere conversion.
📚 Historical and Cultural Continuity
The Jewish people are not an "Ethno-religion" or merely a "Religion." Such simplifications hinder a genuine understanding of Jewish identity. The Hebrew lexicon doesn't even have a word for 'religion'—a concept that's foreign to Jewish self-identification. The modern word people use for religion in Hebrew is 'דָּתֿ' (Dath), which is more about law and governance, a concept we derive from the story of Purim in Meghillath Ester.
When discussing 'ethnicity,' the Septuagint (LXX) uses 'ἔθνος' (ethnos), in Hebrew translated to 'גּוֹי' (Goy), and into English as 'nation.' While this might capture the essence, it doesn't encompass the entirety of Jewish identity. We're 'עַם' (ʿAm), a term that signifies more than just a people; it encapsulates a shared destiny, a collective, and a covenant beyond us. It's about being part of a narrative that spans millennia, not just fitting into neat, modern categories of identity.
A common misperception posits Jewish Law as a religion, a view shaped more by faith traditions that emerged from Jewish culture than by the reality of Jewish experience itself. This perspective, while well-intentioned, overlooks Jewish self-understanding. Torath Moshe, central to Jewish life, is indeed divinely inspired. Yet, contrary to what some might assume, Judaism does not manifest as a theocracy. Its essence differs significantly from the religious frameworks of Christianity and Islam.
To grasp the Jewish conception of the divine, one must first disentangle it from the Christian and Islamic interpretations often embedded in the English usage of 'divine.'
More on this in an older thread: "Judaism and Governance: Unpacking Misconceptions of Theocracy in Judaism"
The Jewish people are not an "Ethno-religion" or merely a "Religion." Such simplifications hinder a genuine understanding of Jewish identity. The Hebrew lexicon doesn't even have a word for 'religion'—a concept that's foreign to Jewish self-identification. The modern word people use for religion in Hebrew is 'דָּתֿ' (Dath), which is more about law and governance, a concept we derive from the story of Purim in Meghillath Ester.
When discussing 'ethnicity,' the Septuagint (LXX) uses 'ἔθνος' (ethnos), in Hebrew translated to 'גּוֹי' (Goy), and into English as 'nation.' While this might capture the essence, it doesn't encompass the entirety of Jewish identity. We're 'עַם' (ʿAm), a term that signifies more than just a people; it encapsulates a shared destiny, a collective, and a covenant beyond us. It's about being part of a narrative that spans millennia, not just fitting into neat, modern categories of identity.
A common misperception posits Jewish Law as a religion, a view shaped more by faith traditions that emerged from Jewish culture than by the reality of Jewish experience itself. This perspective, while well-intentioned, overlooks Jewish self-understanding. Torath Moshe, central to Jewish life, is indeed divinely inspired. Yet, contrary to what some might assume, Judaism does not manifest as a theocracy. Its essence differs significantly from the religious frameworks of Christianity and Islam.
To grasp the Jewish conception of the divine, one must first disentangle it from the Christian and Islamic interpretations often embedded in the English usage of 'divine.'
More on this in an older thread: "Judaism and Governance: Unpacking Misconceptions of Theocracy in Judaism"
https://x.com/ChouaIsaac/status/1791171637502435472
🌍 Shared Genetic History with Palestinians
While DNA may tie Palestinians and Jews, deepening the tragedy of our conflict, it's crucial to understand that DNA alone does not tie you to a people; it’s the continuation of those traditions, not those who have forfeited them. Palestinians have embraced Arab-Islamic and Roman-Christian identities, leaving these Jewish heroes in the past.
Yes, Palestinians may share DNA, but they do not weave it into their current history or legacy. Over time, Palestinians distanced themselves from Jewish narratives, blending into the stories of conquerors. In any culture, forsaking one's kin for a new identity is often seen as betrayal.
Palestinians have forsaken and separated from the ancient Jews. Any discussion of this now is a recent phenomenon aimed at discrediting Jews—Jews who yearned to return to Israel and reclaim and reestablish Jerusalem as their capital and unite the nation. The desire to establish Jerusalem as the capital of a Palestinian state is a 1967 innovation, as the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) sought to move away from simply being referred to as “Arabs” and work towards a new identity, Palestinians. This doesn’t discredit any identity prior to that; many referred to themselves by their tribes, families, towns, cities, religions, Arabs, Druze, and Jews, etc. Before 1967, the only people who held Jerusalem as their capital were the Jews (as their eternal capital and Qibla) and the Crusaders (whose actual capital was in Rome).
Jews today have maintained that connection for millennia, from China to Spain and Türkiye to Yemen. Sincere apologies in advance to those who would like us to practice blood quantum laws for the past 2,000+ years to establish a higher blood ratio.
Jews and Palestinians share land and blood, yet our ties remain deeply severed, only recently reignited through conflict. It's crucial to recognize that while our DNA may intertwine, these individuals are woven into the fabric of Jewish national history, not Palestinian. This isn't about assigning worth or legitimacy to our connections with the land; rather, it's about acknowledging the distinct narratives that each of our peoples holds dear.
DNA tests for consumers are what? 20-ish years old. No one took a DNA test and said, "I have remote ancestry." Jews have an unbroken heritage and tie to the land and the history. For Jews, this is based on the Judean legal system developed on that land.
Suggesting that “Israelites” mean anything to Palestinians or that Jewish history means anything to them is misguided. Figures celebrated as Jewish national heroes are not seen in the same light by Palestinians. I don't see Palestinians celebrating the Maccabees or commemorating Bar Kokhḇa.
Even King Daviḏ or Shelomo are restructured to be Muslims, and their stories are recorded differently—through the eyes of Islam. All have a deep history and place in the Jewish psyche, but this isn’t true for all Palestinians. Maybe for some Christians, but this isn’t the majority running the show, and this is a different discussion.
While DNA may tie Palestinians and Jews, deepening the tragedy of our conflict, it's crucial to understand that DNA alone does not tie you to a people; it’s the continuation of those traditions, not those who have forfeited them. Palestinians have embraced Arab-Islamic and Roman-Christian identities, leaving these Jewish heroes in the past.
Yes, Palestinians may share DNA, but they do not weave it into their current history or legacy. Over time, Palestinians distanced themselves from Jewish narratives, blending into the stories of conquerors. In any culture, forsaking one's kin for a new identity is often seen as betrayal.
Palestinians have forsaken and separated from the ancient Jews. Any discussion of this now is a recent phenomenon aimed at discrediting Jews—Jews who yearned to return to Israel and reclaim and reestablish Jerusalem as their capital and unite the nation. The desire to establish Jerusalem as the capital of a Palestinian state is a 1967 innovation, as the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) sought to move away from simply being referred to as “Arabs” and work towards a new identity, Palestinians. This doesn’t discredit any identity prior to that; many referred to themselves by their tribes, families, towns, cities, religions, Arabs, Druze, and Jews, etc. Before 1967, the only people who held Jerusalem as their capital were the Jews (as their eternal capital and Qibla) and the Crusaders (whose actual capital was in Rome).
Jews today have maintained that connection for millennia, from China to Spain and Türkiye to Yemen. Sincere apologies in advance to those who would like us to practice blood quantum laws for the past 2,000+ years to establish a higher blood ratio.
Jews and Palestinians share land and blood, yet our ties remain deeply severed, only recently reignited through conflict. It's crucial to recognize that while our DNA may intertwine, these individuals are woven into the fabric of Jewish national history, not Palestinian. This isn't about assigning worth or legitimacy to our connections with the land; rather, it's about acknowledging the distinct narratives that each of our peoples holds dear.
DNA tests for consumers are what? 20-ish years old. No one took a DNA test and said, "I have remote ancestry." Jews have an unbroken heritage and tie to the land and the history. For Jews, this is based on the Judean legal system developed on that land.
Suggesting that “Israelites” mean anything to Palestinians or that Jewish history means anything to them is misguided. Figures celebrated as Jewish national heroes are not seen in the same light by Palestinians. I don't see Palestinians celebrating the Maccabees or commemorating Bar Kokhḇa.
Even King Daviḏ or Shelomo are restructured to be Muslims, and their stories are recorded differently—through the eyes of Islam. All have a deep history and place in the Jewish psyche, but this isn’t true for all Palestinians. Maybe for some Christians, but this isn’t the majority running the show, and this is a different discussion.
🗨️ Path Forward
The colonialist myth does not serve anyone's interests and only perpetuates conflict. Unlike colonialists who abandon lands when risks outweigh rewards, Jews have an unbreakable bond with our homeland. We are not colonizers; our roots here are ancient and deep. Efforts that once drove the British from this region by both Jews and Arabs hold no sway over us. We remain steadfast and indigenous to our land.
The sooner there is mutual recognition of Jews as indigenous to the region, the quicker we can work together to rebuild. Accepting us as cousins and neighbors will pave the way for creating something greater than the world has ever seen.
Like the tribe of Benjamin's reconciliation with its brethren tribes in the Book of Judges, unity is within our reach. A holiday arose from it, Ṭu beAḇ - known today as a holiday of Love.
This land, steeped in a history of healing and unity, harbors the potential for a harmonious future together. As our father Aḇraham said, 'Let there be no strife between you and me...for we are kinsmen' (Genesis 13:8-9). By acknowledging our shared history and rightful place, we can move towards a harmonious future together.
If we don’t, this will continue on forever. These bad faith actors don’t care.
The colonialist myth does not serve anyone's interests and only perpetuates conflict. Unlike colonialists who abandon lands when risks outweigh rewards, Jews have an unbreakable bond with our homeland. We are not colonizers; our roots here are ancient and deep. Efforts that once drove the British from this region by both Jews and Arabs hold no sway over us. We remain steadfast and indigenous to our land.
The sooner there is mutual recognition of Jews as indigenous to the region, the quicker we can work together to rebuild. Accepting us as cousins and neighbors will pave the way for creating something greater than the world has ever seen.
Like the tribe of Benjamin's reconciliation with its brethren tribes in the Book of Judges, unity is within our reach. A holiday arose from it, Ṭu beAḇ - known today as a holiday of Love.
This land, steeped in a history of healing and unity, harbors the potential for a harmonious future together. As our father Aḇraham said, 'Let there be no strife between you and me...for we are kinsmen' (Genesis 13:8-9). By acknowledging our shared history and rightful place, we can move towards a harmonious future together.
If we don’t, this will continue on forever. These bad faith actors don’t care.
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