1 / Mammoth thread 🧵🦣 Had a challenging chat yesterday with a dad (an old friend) whose son started 'puberty blockers' a few months ago. Had to navigate a very complex conversation on the spot:
▶️ what to say
▶️ what not to say
▶️ how to communicate certain things to make sure they landed
▶️ giving him enough space to process what I was saying
▶️ noticing his body language and facial expressions
▶️ giving him enough space to ask questions and share whatever he wanted to share
▶️ ensuring he felt comfortable enough to share deeply personal stuff in the first place, and to be able to do so without feeling like he was being judged as a parent
▶️ how to not let my own emotions get in the way or become a distraction - this situation was first and foremost about a worried dad and his distressed son
We talked for hours and were both so happy to have been able to have this kind of conversation, but it was also upsetting as it put certain dark realities into very sharp focus.
I'm posting about it here in the hope it will help some of you navigate these conversations when you're faced with them, and would love to hear your thoughts on what you've found to be helpful from your experiences.
We cannot underestimate the importance of these conversations and the impact they may have. There is no magic formula but together we can work out some key pointers for 'best practice'.
I'll add annotations in italics.
M = Menno
F = Friend
OK, let's go...
#KeepSpeakingKeepPeaking
▶️ what to say
▶️ what not to say
▶️ how to communicate certain things to make sure they landed
▶️ giving him enough space to process what I was saying
▶️ noticing his body language and facial expressions
▶️ giving him enough space to ask questions and share whatever he wanted to share
▶️ ensuring he felt comfortable enough to share deeply personal stuff in the first place, and to be able to do so without feeling like he was being judged as a parent
▶️ how to not let my own emotions get in the way or become a distraction - this situation was first and foremost about a worried dad and his distressed son
We talked for hours and were both so happy to have been able to have this kind of conversation, but it was also upsetting as it put certain dark realities into very sharp focus.
I'm posting about it here in the hope it will help some of you navigate these conversations when you're faced with them, and would love to hear your thoughts on what you've found to be helpful from your experiences.
We cannot underestimate the importance of these conversations and the impact they may have. There is no magic formula but together we can work out some key pointers for 'best practice'.
I'll add annotations in italics.
M = Menno
F = Friend
OK, let's go...
#KeepSpeakingKeepPeaking
2 / An old friend messaged to say he was visiting the UK with his teenage son and wanted to meet up. We met at uni back in 1994 (!) and had last seen each other 7 years ago. We don’t really keep in touch regularly but always have a good time when we meet and simply pick up where we left off.
He sent me a pic of him and his son and I went “Uh oh…” His son looks young for his age, has very long hair and quite an androgynous look in a soft / sweet / angelic sort of way. My first thoughts were “That’s the kind of kid that gets bullied” (I remember those days well myself) and “I hope he knows it’s perfectly fine to not be a ‘typical boy’ and that he doesn’t get sucked into thinking of himself as some kind of magical gender person.”
I was about to find out...
He sent me a pic of him and his son and I went “Uh oh…” His son looks young for his age, has very long hair and quite an androgynous look in a soft / sweet / angelic sort of way. My first thoughts were “That’s the kind of kid that gets bullied” (I remember those days well myself) and “I hope he knows it’s perfectly fine to not be a ‘typical boy’ and that he doesn’t get sucked into thinking of himself as some kind of magical gender person.”
I was about to find out...
3 / We met at noon and it was so good to see him again. He’s such a friendly guy and always has the biggest smile. I noticed his son was shy and awkward, so I tried to be friendly and calm around him. He mumbled rather than spoke (like I used to), he tried to make himself physically smaller (like I used to), and seemed a bit vacant.
My friend asked me what I was up to these days and so I said I’d started looking into the conflict between sex and gender. His son immediately turned his face away and looked uncomfortable. “Maybe we should talk about that later,” I said to my friend. “I think that would be best,” he responded.” My initial hunch of “Uh oh” had unfortunately been right. Sometimes it’s not nice to be right.
My friend asked me what I was up to these days and so I said I’d started looking into the conflict between sex and gender. His son immediately turned his face away and looked uncomfortable. “Maybe we should talk about that later,” I said to my friend. “I think that would be best,” he responded.” My initial hunch of “Uh oh” had unfortunately been right. Sometimes it’s not nice to be right.
4 / We walked through a park and visited a palace, but his son wasn’t that engaged (unless he talked about TikTok) and wanted to spend time on his iPad so we walked back to their hotel and then my friend came back out so we could go for a walk and have a proper chat together.
He told me that a few years ago his son began saying he wanted to be a girl following serious bullying at school. Throw autism in the mix, depression, self-harming and suicide attempts and a complex yet now familiar picture begins to emerge.
He ‘socially transitioned’ for 2 years, new name and pronouns. The bullying continued, and when he realised that ‘being a girl’ didn’t change anything he went back to his original boy’s name and he / him pronouns.
M: “How is he feeling about the boy / girl thing at the moment?” I asked. Turns out he’s very confused but seeing a therapist at a gender clinic (Netherlands). He mentioned the name of the clinic and alarm bells rang in my head – it’s the home of ‘puberty blockers’.
He told me that a few years ago his son began saying he wanted to be a girl following serious bullying at school. Throw autism in the mix, depression, self-harming and suicide attempts and a complex yet now familiar picture begins to emerge.
He ‘socially transitioned’ for 2 years, new name and pronouns. The bullying continued, and when he realised that ‘being a girl’ didn’t change anything he went back to his original boy’s name and he / him pronouns.
M: “How is he feeling about the boy / girl thing at the moment?” I asked. Turns out he’s very confused but seeing a therapist at a gender clinic (Netherlands). He mentioned the name of the clinic and alarm bells rang in my head – it’s the home of ‘puberty blockers’.
5 / It’s the first time I made a direct and firm statement.
M: “Whatever happens, keep him away from any medication”
F: “What do you mean?”
M: “Keep him away from puberty blockers.”
F: “Why? He started on them 3 months ago. We’d been on a waiting list for 2.5 years”
Pause. Take stock.
I paused to collect my thoughts, as I wasn’t sure how he would react to the various things that were fighting their way to come out of my mouth and I was thinking about how, after 2.5 years, finally getting the blockers must have felt like such a relief to him as a dad desperately wanting to help his son and having been sold a lie by the ‘experts’.
Empathise and acknowledge.
M: “OK, I think I’m getting an understanding of the situation you find yourself in as a parent” I said. “I’m not a parent, so I can only imagine what this is like for you and how hard it must be to see him struggle. How are you feeling?”
F: “You know you’re only the second person to ask me that in the last couple of years? Thank you for that.”
M: “Whatever happens, keep him away from any medication”
F: “What do you mean?”
M: “Keep him away from puberty blockers.”
F: “Why? He started on them 3 months ago. We’d been on a waiting list for 2.5 years”
Pause. Take stock.
I paused to collect my thoughts, as I wasn’t sure how he would react to the various things that were fighting their way to come out of my mouth and I was thinking about how, after 2.5 years, finally getting the blockers must have felt like such a relief to him as a dad desperately wanting to help his son and having been sold a lie by the ‘experts’.
Empathise and acknowledge.
M: “OK, I think I’m getting an understanding of the situation you find yourself in as a parent” I said. “I’m not a parent, so I can only imagine what this is like for you and how hard it must be to see him struggle. How are you feeling?”
F: “You know you’re only the second person to ask me that in the last couple of years? Thank you for that.”
6 / He didn’t really answer the question, so I took that as a sign of “I’m not ready to go there right now.”
Acknowledge a boundary. Overstepping this boundary means you can lose him.
I thought “OK, it’s time for some facts.”
So I looked at him and said “I want you to know that whatever I’m going to say next is not in any way meant to be nasty or mean or that I’m judging you as a parent or your son in any sort of way.”
F: “OK.”
M: “Puberty blockers have just been banned in the UK”
Present a straightforward fact, wait for a reaction
F: “Really?”
M: “Yes. Sweden and Finland have done the same. France is now also urging serious caution about these drugs.”
F: “Why?’
M: “Because even though these drugs have been used for ‘gender dysphoria’ for almost 3 decades now, it’s become clear that there is no actual evidence base for them for what your son is struggling with”
I made a case of saying ‘drugs’ rather than ‘puberty blockers’
Acknowledge a boundary. Overstepping this boundary means you can lose him.
I thought “OK, it’s time for some facts.”
So I looked at him and said “I want you to know that whatever I’m going to say next is not in any way meant to be nasty or mean or that I’m judging you as a parent or your son in any sort of way.”
F: “OK.”
M: “Puberty blockers have just been banned in the UK”
Present a straightforward fact, wait for a reaction
F: “Really?”
M: “Yes. Sweden and Finland have done the same. France is now also urging serious caution about these drugs.”
F: “Why?’
M: “Because even though these drugs have been used for ‘gender dysphoria’ for almost 3 decades now, it’s become clear that there is no actual evidence base for them for what your son is struggling with”
I made a case of saying ‘drugs’ rather than ‘puberty blockers’
7 / M: “I started looking into these drugs myself about 4 years ago, and I want to be honest with you – I’ve campaigned for them to be banned.”
F: “OK.”
I purposely didn’t use terms like ‘medical scandal’ or ‘medical malpractice’ because I didn’t want to go in too hard / sound too extreme and to him perhaps unreasonable / freak him out as those drugs are now coursing through his son’s body.
M: “What do you think these drugs do?”
F: “They pause puberty. It gives him time to think. It’s like a pause button.”
M: “Who told you that?”
F: “The people at the clinic. They’re the ones with the white coats so I trust them.”
Register what he’s saying – in this case he seems to value authority / expertise. Counter it with another authority / expertise-based argument.
M: “That’s one of the main claims about these drugs that, internationally, the medical community is turning away from”
F: “Really?”
M: “Yes, that’s why I mentioned that Sweden, Finland, France and the UK. They completely changed their approach. They’ve done a number of systemic evidence reviews, which means they’ve looked at as much worldwide evidence available, and on the back of those reviews they’ve changed tack. I think Norway is looking into it as well now, and there have also been calls in the Dutch parliament to investigate the use of these drugs in the Netherlands. It is a very significant shift.”
F: “But I thought Sweden was like the best country in the world in terms of transgender healthcare?”
M: “Yes, it’s been known for years as providing the gold standard. That’s why it’s so important to acknowledge why they’ve changed their minds.”
F: “OK.”
I purposely didn’t use terms like ‘medical scandal’ or ‘medical malpractice’ because I didn’t want to go in too hard / sound too extreme and to him perhaps unreasonable / freak him out as those drugs are now coursing through his son’s body.
M: “What do you think these drugs do?”
F: “They pause puberty. It gives him time to think. It’s like a pause button.”
M: “Who told you that?”
F: “The people at the clinic. They’re the ones with the white coats so I trust them.”
Register what he’s saying – in this case he seems to value authority / expertise. Counter it with another authority / expertise-based argument.
M: “That’s one of the main claims about these drugs that, internationally, the medical community is turning away from”
F: “Really?”
M: “Yes, that’s why I mentioned that Sweden, Finland, France and the UK. They completely changed their approach. They’ve done a number of systemic evidence reviews, which means they’ve looked at as much worldwide evidence available, and on the back of those reviews they’ve changed tack. I think Norway is looking into it as well now, and there have also been calls in the Dutch parliament to investigate the use of these drugs in the Netherlands. It is a very significant shift.”
F: “But I thought Sweden was like the best country in the world in terms of transgender healthcare?”
M: “Yes, it’s been known for years as providing the gold standard. That’s why it’s so important to acknowledge why they’ve changed their minds.”
8 / F: “This is the first time I’ve heard about this.”
M: “I’m happy to go through some of the key things I’ve learned over the years, but it can be quite a lot to take in in one conversation, so let me know when I need to stop.”
I was hoping this would make him feel like he was in control and also I wanted to pace myself and not bombard him with lots of info all at once ( “And there’s this! And there’s that! And did you know…!”)
I asked him if he knew how the drugs actually pause puberty. He said he didn’t, so I explained how our bodies naturally function to get the ‘puberty show’ on the road (the signalling between the hypothalamus, pituitary gland and gonads. I used the analogy of ‘Director’ for hypothalamus, ‘Team Manager’ for pituitary gland and ‘team on the ground’ for the gonads). I explained how the drugs interrupt this process and emphasised that it relies on disrupting the brain not just the gonads.
This was an eye-opener for him.
M: “Nobody knows what the long-term effects on the brain are.”
Pause
M: “But an important thing to consider is that these drugs don’t just interrupt the development of facial hair, genitals, deepening of the voice, etc, but also of the brain – particularly the parts of the brain associated with getting a sense of independence, decision making, and maturing mentally.”
This really struck a chord with him, as he’s already concerned that his son’s mental development is lagging behind (not unusual for those with autism). He also said he think his son has ‘Peter Pan’ syndrome – not wanting to grow up but hold onto childhood.
M: “I don’t mean this in a bad way, but his Peter Pan syndrome is now being powered with drugs."
From his reaction I think this will be the main takeaway of our conversation for him.
M: “I’m happy to go through some of the key things I’ve learned over the years, but it can be quite a lot to take in in one conversation, so let me know when I need to stop.”
I was hoping this would make him feel like he was in control and also I wanted to pace myself and not bombard him with lots of info all at once ( “And there’s this! And there’s that! And did you know…!”)
I asked him if he knew how the drugs actually pause puberty. He said he didn’t, so I explained how our bodies naturally function to get the ‘puberty show’ on the road (the signalling between the hypothalamus, pituitary gland and gonads. I used the analogy of ‘Director’ for hypothalamus, ‘Team Manager’ for pituitary gland and ‘team on the ground’ for the gonads). I explained how the drugs interrupt this process and emphasised that it relies on disrupting the brain not just the gonads.
This was an eye-opener for him.
M: “Nobody knows what the long-term effects on the brain are.”
Pause
M: “But an important thing to consider is that these drugs don’t just interrupt the development of facial hair, genitals, deepening of the voice, etc, but also of the brain – particularly the parts of the brain associated with getting a sense of independence, decision making, and maturing mentally.”
This really struck a chord with him, as he’s already concerned that his son’s mental development is lagging behind (not unusual for those with autism). He also said he think his son has ‘Peter Pan’ syndrome – not wanting to grow up but hold onto childhood.
M: “I don’t mean this in a bad way, but his Peter Pan syndrome is now being powered with drugs."
From his reaction I think this will be the main takeaway of our conversation for him.
9 / I find it very concerning that the gender clinic did not tell him about how the drugs actually operate and how they may impact brain development and how the long-term effects on the brain are unknown. I’m not sure if fertility was discussed with the clinic – didn’t think of asking him at the time.
The other thing I made a big point about was that ‘blockers’ are not a pause button but that they could trap his son in his distress because (1) his brain development is being halted, and (2) he’s now learning that his body is the enemy and that drugs are his friends
One phrase my friend kept using was “Feeling like a girl.”
M: “Is ‘girl’ a feeling?”
F: “Well… if that’s how he feels, if that’s how he identifies…”
M: “But ‘girl’ is not a feeling – it a sex class.”
He had never heard anyone say that. He was absolutely baffled by that. He kept coming back to it during the convo, so I kept challenging it, but it was a tough one to dislodge.
M: “If you keep thinking that ‘girl’ and ‘boy’ are feelings, you’ll never be able to unpick what he is struggling with. It seems to me he hates being a boy because he gets shit for being the kind of boy he is. That doesn’t mean he feels like a girl or could even have any concept of what a girl feels like. Because he’s not a girl. His idea of ‘feeling like a girl’ is an unhappy boy’s idea of what a girl might feel like.”
F: “I just want to support my son.”
M: “I absolutely believe that. The question is: what does the right support for him look like?”
The other thing I made a big point about was that ‘blockers’ are not a pause button but that they could trap his son in his distress because (1) his brain development is being halted, and (2) he’s now learning that his body is the enemy and that drugs are his friends
One phrase my friend kept using was “Feeling like a girl.”
M: “Is ‘girl’ a feeling?”
F: “Well… if that’s how he feels, if that’s how he identifies…”
M: “But ‘girl’ is not a feeling – it a sex class.”
He had never heard anyone say that. He was absolutely baffled by that. He kept coming back to it during the convo, so I kept challenging it, but it was a tough one to dislodge.
M: “If you keep thinking that ‘girl’ and ‘boy’ are feelings, you’ll never be able to unpick what he is struggling with. It seems to me he hates being a boy because he gets shit for being the kind of boy he is. That doesn’t mean he feels like a girl or could even have any concept of what a girl feels like. Because he’s not a girl. His idea of ‘feeling like a girl’ is an unhappy boy’s idea of what a girl might feel like.”
F: “I just want to support my son.”
M: “I absolutely believe that. The question is: what does the right support for him look like?”
10 / He then told me that his son had had doubts about going on the blockers because he didn’t want ‘scary stuff’ in his body (because of stuff he’d read about how some Covid vaccines ‘change’ your DNA). His dad (exhausted from 2.5 years waiting for an appointment) didn’t accept this as a good reason to not go ahead, and so he got his first injection 3 months ago.
I was kinda floored by this, but didn’t go into it. He had enough to digest.
M: “Puberty is one of the most crucial developmental phases in our lives, and one that has a limited time window. Once that window is closed, you can’t open it again. Every day your son is on these drugs, he’s missing out on that window. And what you’ve missed, you can’t retrieve or catch up on. We also know that for most kids with ‘gender dysphoria’ puberty is the cure – but that cure is now being blocked.”
I asked if his son was experiencing any side effects like hot flushes and head aches, but not at the moment.
I was kinda floored by this, but didn’t go into it. He had enough to digest.
M: “Puberty is one of the most crucial developmental phases in our lives, and one that has a limited time window. Once that window is closed, you can’t open it again. Every day your son is on these drugs, he’s missing out on that window. And what you’ve missed, you can’t retrieve or catch up on. We also know that for most kids with ‘gender dysphoria’ puberty is the cure – but that cure is now being blocked.”
I asked if his son was experiencing any side effects like hot flushes and head aches, but not at the moment.
11 / We talked for much longer. I told him about the Keira Bell judicial review, the Cass Review, detransitioners, how same-sex attracted and autistic youth are over-represented at gender clinics, so it was quite full-on but we took our time and he really wanted to learn. We both got quite emotional at times. He talked about how hard it is as a dad to see your son suffering so much.
He also thought it was remarkable that while he’s been going through this with his son, I’ve been looking into these drugs and campaigning against them, that we both didn’t know this about each other and then we suddenly have a chance to talk about it.
M: “I hope I wasn’t too intense”
F: “It’s a lot to take in but I’m really glad we’ve had this talk. I’d never heard any of this before. The penny’s well and truly dropped.”
He also thought it was remarkable that while he’s been going through this with his son, I’ve been looking into these drugs and campaigning against them, that we both didn’t know this about each other and then we suddenly have a chance to talk about it.
M: “I hope I wasn’t too intense”
F: “It’s a lot to take in but I’m really glad we’ve had this talk. I’d never heard any of this before. The penny’s well and truly dropped.”
12 / We gave each other a big hug and said our goodbyes.
I’ll prepare various bit of info / links for him.
I went home feeling heavy and sad and worried.
Should’ve just chilled and cooked a nice meal but had a call scheduled with a male detransitioners so jumped on that as soon as I got in, and after 3.5 hours (it was a great convo) my brain was well and truly fried and I was exhausted.
The way ‘gender’ and its medical affirmation wreaks havoc in people’s lives is hard to comprehend sometimes.
So many people searching for authenticity / truth / belonging and getting sucked in by the madness.
I despair sometimes (and that’s as someone who hasn’t been at the hands of medicalisation myself or has been in the position of a parent).
But that’s why we must go on and share what info we can and have as many conversations to fight the distortion and the lies and help others find a way to truly be free – by embracing your sex and giving ‘gender’ the middle finger.
On that note, I’ll leave you with 'Constant Craving' by kd lang, a song I’ve always loved because it talks of an innate thirst for truth and learning that I hope will guide us through these challenging times🤞
🎶 Even through the darkest phase
Be it thick or thin
Always someone marches brave
Here beneath my skin
And constant craving
Has always been
Maybe a great magnet pulls
All souls towards truth
Or maybe it is life itself
Feeds wisdom
To its youth
Constant craving
Has always been 🎶
I’ll prepare various bit of info / links for him.
I went home feeling heavy and sad and worried.
Should’ve just chilled and cooked a nice meal but had a call scheduled with a male detransitioners so jumped on that as soon as I got in, and after 3.5 hours (it was a great convo) my brain was well and truly fried and I was exhausted.
The way ‘gender’ and its medical affirmation wreaks havoc in people’s lives is hard to comprehend sometimes.
So many people searching for authenticity / truth / belonging and getting sucked in by the madness.
I despair sometimes (and that’s as someone who hasn’t been at the hands of medicalisation myself or has been in the position of a parent).
But that’s why we must go on and share what info we can and have as many conversations to fight the distortion and the lies and help others find a way to truly be free – by embracing your sex and giving ‘gender’ the middle finger.
On that note, I’ll leave you with 'Constant Craving' by kd lang, a song I’ve always loved because it talks of an innate thirst for truth and learning that I hope will guide us through these challenging times🤞
🎶 Even through the darkest phase
Be it thick or thin
Always someone marches brave
Here beneath my skin
And constant craving
Has always been
Maybe a great magnet pulls
All souls towards truth
Or maybe it is life itself
Feeds wisdom
To its youth
Constant craving
Has always been 🎶
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