Lot of Sikhs bet on the strategy of completely divorcing themselves from the bad reputation and stereotypes of India by calling themselves “Punjabis, Sikhs” and believing in that exceptionalism. Indians obviously took glee in it when North Americans started rejecting this shtick.
I’m also a Punjabi, but why should I do Punjabi exceptionalism? If I really want to divorce myself from India’s bad reputation, then who cares about ethnicity? I should just bring in my caste (Khatri) which is responsible for most of Punjabi history as well as being elite human capital in modernity.
The reality is regional and linguistic exceptionalism is cope. The only thing that’s real in India is caste and we don’t do caste exceptionalism because it’s impolite and we wanted to build a unified civilizational identity by sacrificing our own caste for wider goals like Hindutva/Dharma. Lot of non-Khatri Punjabis just didn’t get this. You lead from ahead, not from behind.
What I am trying to explain is something nuanced. Lot of Indian castes that were and are truly exceptional chose to not give a shit about their caste’s achievements so they could do national unity and Hindutva.
But mediocre people doubled down on regional/linguistic/caste kanging to destroy this national civilizational unity. That’s the tragedy of India.
Ever seen Iyers (Tamil Brahmins) go around telling White people saar we have as many Nobel Prizes and Fields medals as NW Europeans, saar we arent pajeets, why would you dare to call us a pajeet? When in fact, Iyers can easily make such a claim and it is *true*
But they don’t do it! They only care about Hindutva/civilizational Indian identity. This is true nobless oblige.
Hindutva/Indic unity and identity might be based on lies and be “copium” but it is a necessary copium to keep everything going. If we all just start caring about our castes, it’s game over.
The problem is, many Punjabi Sikhs not only rejected Indic civilizational identity, they doubled down on hating India/Hindus while feeling comfy that they live in the 1st world now.
> move to 1st world
> realize ur fairer than avg indian
> realize ur religion can be seen as non-Hindu
> realize india is a shithole w no positive tropes
> reject indian identity to get rid of this pajeet baggage
> claim a new identity for yourself that has 0 negative baggage
Abrahamisation of Sikhi worked like this
> brits conquer all of india & punjab
> brits are xtian
> realize xtian is high status in 19-20th c
> hinduism low status loser religion
> realize many brits think sikhi is like xtianity in some ways hence better
> reject all hindu elements (inferior pajeet things)
> convenient new identity that has 0 negatives of hinduism: one god, one book, no caste, comfy!
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Nice thread, since you are being candid and following historical trends somewhat respectfully, let me just provide my own response to it.
It was very difficult to draw strict lines of separation in theological identity in pre-modern primary religions, so what makes up Hinduism *theologically* is not a clear cut bullet point list. The identity of Hindu has always been subjective but it comes down to what Savarkar has said. Hindus are a people, tied by genetics, culture, language and ancestral connections to 1 homeland. Hindus are those people whose homeland is bhArata.
There is a common philosophical base of Vedanta-Upanishads in India from which all sects source beliefs (historically, from a materialist analysis). Sikhi clearly also sources concepts from this, like literally every Hindu sect, but all the sects have their own interpretation of those concepts or build on them further.
- karma, reincarnation (punarjanma), individual soul (atman), world soul (brahman), panentheism (brahman pervades everything, and everything is sourced in it), concept of dharma, reverence for cows etc
What defines a sect from a religion now from that sense is completely based on self-identity. MANY Hindu sects can just make an argument that we are totally different than *xyz other sect* and hence not the same "religion"
However, reasonably, people understand they share a common identity based on many things and don't feel the need to do so.
Sure, there was a "Sikh identity" but there was also a Gaudiya Vaishnav identity, Shri Vaishnav identity, Pashupatin identity, Lingayat identity etc historically.
There was even a Shrautin vs non Shrautin identity, this is the point. My point was at a time in history in the 20th century, a portion of Sikhs chose to further a separation from the rest of Hindu civilization for a variety of reasons and started rejecting both habits and scriptural ideas found in Gurbani itself.
White people have enemies in all kinds of violent and lecherous races living in their countries that kill and rape their family members but on Twitter they chose to just seethe against the most non violent and productive immigrant group 24/7
I get it no one wants their country or home to be overran by foreigners but literally what choice do you have at this point? Seethe and abuse a group that commits no crime, minds its own business, earns more than native Whites, pays taxes? That's the ideal kind of immigrant.
If I was becoming a minority in my own land
I wouldn't spend all my time abusing people who do me no harm but just look different. I'd rather abuse people who are violent criminals and physically harm my family or relations, or threaten to do so. Or people who make my society unsafe.
Has no one read this article? How did we miss this? Seems like lot of tensions with RSS might've cost us dearly in UP.
RSS pracharaks cutting down their campaigning in UP is like fighting a world war without proper equipment or resources.
Only those in formal leadership positions in the organisation are campaigning. The ordinary pracharak or karyakarta is not campaigning at all,” the Lucknow pracharak said, as he wound up his morning shakha, or gathering, in Lucknow. “Until the last election, shakhas would be one of the most important sites where campaigning was discussed and planned—now, there is nothing happening.”
“The RSS worker does not want material benefits like others,” said Lucknow lecturer Shukla. “But at least we would want the organisation that we nurture on the ground to have some basic sensitivity towards us.”
Shukla did not specify whether or not he is campaigning for the BJP this time, but affirmed “mann toh khatta hua ha (my heart has soured).”
It's just very funny to see Muslims try to discuss theology or philosophy. You can just tell it's being done by people who are 90 IQ at max and whose philosophers were tops 100 IQ themselves. It's like the midwit's idea of "owning" someone in a debate.
The reason Hinduism seems hard for you to understand is because you're just too retarded to even understand how to debate core matters on metaphysics or soteriology.
Your arguments like 95% of e-dawah givers mostly just revolve around "exposing flaws" and "embarrassing stories"
In this field, a few things matter.
1) Epistemology (pramana-shastra): where do you gain valid knowledge from? sources of valid knowledge, definition of knowledge acquisition.
2) Hermeneutics (mimamsa-shastra): how do you interpret, analyze and read different ancient texts?
Lost one of my most important folders, the history one, 5 GB worth of prolly top tier/esoteric/unfindable books, papers, snippets. Don't know what to say/feel, totally numb....
it's worse than a modern alexandria burning
the worst loss was the subfolder called "Punjab History" because it contained stuff im positive <1000 people knows/read about and esoteric books i had downloaded from IRL libraries across the US by going there in person and digitalizing.
fuck, its just such a brutal loss, im totally numb.
fuck man, the loss wrt indian and esp punjabi history is irreparable, this was stuff i had collected and found over 5-6 years of autistic searching
The Amisch of America are known to be a hyper conservative Anabaptist community in the US. They're of Swiss German descent & call other Americans "English". They don't use electricity or motor vehicles and live the 19th century style life that their ancestors did.
The Amisch have a very high fertility rate, and they homeschool all their children, with most of the time being spent on Bible study and learning practical skills like woodmaking or construction. Their native language is not English but a dialect of Swiss German.
While all this is kinda well known, I think what's less known and more interesting is the concept of Rumspringa or "Jumping Around" among the Amisch.
This is a coming of age rite of passage for Amisch adolescents. They are essentially given the choice of "exploring" the outside world before deciding to join the church or not as adults.