Thread by @CaseAiken

OK! Let's talk Warlocks! The class that always felt like a system hack received several upgrades in the 2024 Dungeons and Dragons Player's Handbook, and that is universally true for their subclasses.

This is the subclass that was probably changed the least since its first appearance in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. The most notable change is to the spell list itself, in addition to the obvious change that they get all the spells as known.

The spell list remains full of healing and heavenly themed entries. When first published, these tended to be hard to choose since healing spells are usually circumstantial and the Warlock doesnt get a lot of spells known. It's a lot more palatable with them preloaded on your list

The standout for me is Summon Celestial, a spell that seems absurdly obvious to have on their list but didn't exist when the subclass was first published

They still get Sacred Flame as a free cantrip, which remains a weird choice on a Warlock given the reliance on Eldritch Blast

Their third level ability is a pretty simple pool of healing dice that they can use as bonus actions. This is fairly comparable to a Paladin's Lay on Hands, but has the benefit of being at range. It replaces the need for Healing Word, which is good given the lack of spell slots.

6th level allows you to add your charisma modifier to damage once per turn to a spell that deals fire or radiant damage. This is trickier to use than you might think, but there are of options.

However, I find it SO WEIRD that they do not get the ability at this level to change Eldritch Blast's damage type to radiant. It seems like table stakes and would be in line with what we'll see with the Great Old One.

10th level is pretty dope* but with an asterisk. The Celestial Warlock gets the ability to give temporary HP to themselves and everyone in the party, and it's a good amount, but it is very similar and distinctly worse than the Inspiring Leader feat.

Temporary HP doesn't stack, so the value of this is diminished if a player has the Inspiring Leader feat already, but it will still find use. This is never a ribbon, but the value of it will be judged by choices made already in the game.

14th level is an explosion of healing energy that kicks in if you or an ally goes down, getting the downed member back up and bursting out with damage to all nearby enemies. Some games, you will see this used a lot, and other games not so much. It is nice to have if needed.

The Celestial Patron benefits dramatically from the inclusion of their bonus spells as spells prepared, it also benefits from the advancements in the base design of the class, put a pin in that, but otherwise is pretty much untouched from its version in Xanathar's.

One thing I would like to note, this is the best foundation for a proper Pathfinder style War Priest that I have seen in 5E. Take a one to three level dip in Fighter, then go Pact of the Blade for charisma to attack rolls and up to 3 attacks, plus the "full" casting of a Warlock!

Even the 6th level Radiant Soul feature can work in conjunction if you find a way to take Shillelagh (such as through Pact of the Tome so you can get Agonizing Blast)...

...as well as Pact of the Blade, to make it a cantrip attack that does radiant damage. Boom. There's your once per turn Smite damage.

It's a solid frame that all kinds of fantasy character molds can fit into! While it's still not the flashiest, who knew that the Celestial just needed a little bit of spotlight to shine!

Next up we have the flip side of the Celestial, the Fiend! This is the most explicitly evil Patron, though as we've seen in Baldur's Gate 3, it doesn't have to be for a bad guy as a PC.

I mean, this is the default concept for the Warlock, right? Like, when the 3.5 Warlock was conceived, this was clearly the core idea. Deal with the devil. It's incredibly iconic, echelons more so than any of the other entries in the 2024 Players Handbook.

The spell list is all fire and brimstone. It's probably the list that makes the whole move from 1st to 3rd level more awkward since what Warlock is wasting a pact magic slot on Burning Hands even at 3rd level?

The features haven't changed much since the Fiend premiered in the 2014 Players Handbook. It was the MVP then and remains a strong class.

3rd level gets a slight buff, letting the Fiend get a pile of temporary HP whenever you or ANYONE downs an enemy near you.

6th level is a potent buff to saving throws letting the Fiend add a d10 a number of times per day equal to their charisma modifier.

10th level is the pure awesomeness of getting resistance to any one type of your choice and being able to change it on a whim... Or a short rest!

The 14th level feature, Hurl Through Hell, is the only aspect of the Fiend that was really nerfed, now requiring a saving through when the lack thereof was the real selling point of the ability in 2014. It is still a fine feature to have, but it's less game changing.

This leaves us with a subclass that remains extremely strong in 2024, but roughly in the same tier that it started in.

The Fiend is an excellent choice for anyone looking to play up the classic warlock!

This brings us to the most improved Warlock subclass in 2024: The Great Old One!

This is the Warlock for players who prefer their horror in an Eldritch lovecraftian sort of way.

Calling on the power of non-euclidean geometry to madden their foes before destroying them, it's no surprise that the Great Old One Warlock is all about psychic powers. Their spell list certainly reads like a psionic character!

At third level, they keep the relatively weak telepathic power that they had in the 2014 version, but now they also get the ability to change out the damage type of their spells to be psychic instead of what have you.

Lastly, they can cast illusion and enchantment spells without using somatic or verbal components.

6th level went from a fairly mediocre defensive ability to an example of design synergy, making the 3rd level telepathic feature much more aggressive!

10th level takes a moment to double down on the value of Hex, making it now affect enemy saving throws in addition to skill checks.

And 14th level lets you cast Summon Aberration without using concentration, much like the Fey Wanderer Ranger with Summon Fey, giving you a thrall.

Compare that to the 2014's version of 10th and 14th levels which was just some weak psionic defenses and a charm effect! Massive improvements!

The Great Old One has gone from barely a subclass to a real fhtagn-ing beast able to control minds or rend them asunder!

So looking at 2024, we see a lot of fundamental quality of life improvements just by virtue of the spell list modification and huge benefits to the existing subclasses that were ported over!

Now, assuming that the subclasses that were not updated to 2024 get that foundational boost to their spells known, how do they hold up?

Well, with 1 very notable exception, what was left was certainly an "Oops! All Bangers!" list. In lore, both real world and D&D specific, and mechanically, these were some real winners!

I mean, we got The Fathomless, The Genie, The Undead, and The HEXBLADE!

And then, sure, yeah, we also have the Undying. Yes, it's the bad one.

Anyway, just look at that list! All of them scream to be character concepts and all were on the top end of Warlock tier ranking with the 2014 ruleset!

For the record, I'm going off @ChrisHonkala 's tier list when I say that.

@ChrisHonkala But yeah! Each makes a ton of sense as PCs BUT traditionally weren't Warlocks themselves per se. The Genie for example was represented in the Sha'ir class. The Undead was the Dread Necromancer. The Hexblade was by the... well... the Hexblade.

@ChrisHonkala The point is that these were all folded in under the banner of the Warlock for presentation and shared thematic reasons. Just like an Eldritch Knight & a Samurai are both viewed as types of Fighters, even though one is a magic guy and the other is a vaguely insensitive stereotype

@ChrisHonkala But let's begin with the Fathomless, both because that's going alphabetically which I often default to, but also because it probably is the least supported flavor of Warlock is older class design. It's the "Water Warlock", though I suppose it has it's own Lovecraftian vibe.

@ChrisHonkala I mean, it's perfect for an Ironborn type spellcaster and obviously works as an alternate water bender. However, while I'm sure there were prestige classes somewhere in the glut of 3.5 that addressed this archetype, I can't think of a good match when it comes to base classes.

@ChrisHonkala You know what? I don't know the 2e kits that well, so I don't want to make that as too hard a blanket statement. Suffice it to say, the "empowered by the forces below" style of Warlock certainly is flavorful but specific.

@ChrisHonkala The spell list is more or less what you'd expect. Silence is interesting. It gets more powerful at the higher levels with things like Summon Elemental and Sleet Storm.

@ChrisHonkala At 3rd level, the Fathomless get the table stakes power of breathing underwater with a swim speed. Can you imagine if they didn't?

@ChrisHonkala Then, because this is a subclass from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, the Fathomless get a pretty decent ability that scales in uses with proficiency bonus, but in power with Warlock level. In this case a Tentacle that acts like Spiritual Weapon but with a slow effect rider.

@ChrisHonkala And I will tell you right here that if the subclass were updated to 2024, that Tentacle should probably start at 2d8 damage instead of 1d8 and scale to 3d8 instead of 2d8. This won't be a problem because the class feature would be moved from 1st level to 3rd ...

@ChrisHonkala ...sigh... Earlier I said third level in regards to the first set of class features for the fathomless Warlock, but of course in the 2014 rule set their abilities start at first level. Obviously if used in 2024 this moves to third level.

Just wanted to be clear.

@ChrisHonkala Anyway, the Tentacle was probably a little weak before but had to be balanced against players dipping 1-2 levels of Warlock. In a scenario with the steeper investment of 3 levels, it should begin as competitive with Spiritual Weapon and then scale up.

@ChrisHonkala 6th level is resistance to cold damage, which... sure. I'm not going to say "no". It's just not all that unique but cold is both on brand and fairly common for damage type, especially in aquatic campaigns.

@ChrisHonkala But wait, there's more at 6th level, because your Tentacle also gains the ability to reduce incoming damage directed at you! This is very nice design synergy and about on par with the cold resistance in power, adding up to a pretty solid level!

@ChrisHonkala At 10th level you become super good at casting Evard's Black Tentacles, gaining temporary HP when you cast it.

And 14th is a water to water teleport for the whole party. It's limited to once per short rest, but that can be huge party mobility.

@ChrisHonkala This is frankly the least exciting of the Big Four and it's still pretty amazing. As long as that spell list becomes spells prepared, this is a hugely mature Warlock design, debuting near the end of 5th editions run, and will work fine in 2024.

@ChrisHonkala I think the Tentacle should be a skosh stronger, but in 2024 a concentration free Spiritual Weapon type effect is rarer! It shines most in water campaigns, but is very solid all around!

@ChrisHonkala When the Genie Patron was introduced in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, the Warlock finally was able to represent a design lineage that was just as storied yet esoteric as the classic Fiend Warlock, for here was 5e's adaptation of the Sha'ir!

@ChrisHonkala The Genie is the Warlock Patron for Warlocks who want to be really focused spellcasters. It's certainly the most versatile subclass since it's really four patrons, each a different type of Genie. Each keyed to a classical element: Earth, wind, fire, and water.

@ChrisHonkala However, regardless of your choice, you get the flavor of Aladdin with his magic lamp. How cool is that? It's also an excellent way to play a Green Lantern (which itself has allusions to Aladdin).

@ChrisHonkala I should know up front that there is one area that messes with the whole "Warlocks should get all their bonus spells as spells prepared" and that's the inclusion of Wish on the Genie's list. Because higher level warlock spells are handled through Mystic Arcanum...

@ChrisHonkala They can't have Wish as a spell known, since they only have one spell that works with Mystic Arcanum at each level. So Wish has to just be added to the general Warlock spell list for Genie Patron Warlocks.

@ChrisHonkala It's easy enough to house rule but it is an area where the rules don't quite work for backwards compatibility.

@ChrisHonkala However, aside from that, the Genie spell list is amazing. You get one spell at each level just for being the subclass, and one spell of each level depending on your pick of type of Genie. The base Genie spells are fine but it's the specific lists where you see a lot of flavor!

@ChrisHonkala As you would expect, each type of Genie (Dao, Djinni, Efreeti, and Marid) provides spell options on brand for their respective element and Dao's the winner here, man. Like they get awesome control options like Spike Growth and Wall of Stone...

@ChrisHonkala Meanwhile Djinni is VERY Air Bender-y. Efreeti is the blaster option with all the classic fire spells. Lastly Marid does well with some good control options.

@ChrisHonkala At 1st/3rd level the Genie grants a lamp that can be used as a shelter and spell focus. Further, while holding it, the lamp provides a damage kicker of the damage type associated with the Genie type.

@ChrisHonkala Dao does well here with magical bludgeoning, potentially able to use the Crusher feat with literally any type of attack including Eldritch Blast. Hell, take Crusher on a Great sword build and combine it with Slasher. I doubt that's an optimal use of feats, but it's possible!

@ChrisHonkala 6th level reminds us that this was published in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything and gives the Genie a flight speed proficiency times per long rest. Also they get resistance to the damage type associated with their Genie.

@ChrisHonkala 10th level lets you invite allies into your lamp, where they can take a short rest in only 10 minutes! Great for maximizing the short rest dependent spellcasting of Warlocks.

14th is a lesser version of Wish, able to emulate any spell 6th level or lower.

@ChrisHonkala The Genie is arguably the best Warlock and certainly for a mostly Warlock build. It gives so many goodies at each level and lets the Warlock be better at what it's already good at! And it lets the player decide what that thing is!

@ChrisHonkala Obviously, updating this to 2024 is just cleaning up the wording of Wish being added to the spell list and making the Proficiency based flight ability be keyed off the Warlocks Charisma instead.

Otherwise, the Genie is a great Warlock but not gamebreakingly so.

@ChrisHonkala How does it stack up? Well, the Efreeti is a pretty even match up with the Fiend. I'd peg the rest as being in a similar ballpark power wise even if I think Dao is slightly better. I feel like the Genie's in a good position compared to the 2024 offerings.

@ChrisHonkala I mean, this is a mechanically sound way to explore the fantasies of having a magic lamp and a special friend that makes you awesome! It's such a classic tale brought to life in the system of Dungeons and Dragons 5th edition!

What more could you Wish for?

@ChrisHonkala When the Hex Blade was introduced in Xanathar's Guide to Everything for a time it seemed like it was the only Warlock subclass, especially for multi-classers. It's easily one of the most front-loaded subclasses in the game!

@ChrisHonkala And that was a little wild to me since I had gotten into D&D with 3.5, where the original Hex Blade was introduced as a rather weak option for people who wanted an easy spellcasting/martial hybrid. Instead we have a beast that gives so so much right out of the gate!

@ChrisHonkala The spell list is chock-full of doozies for a meleike and battens, although it would be better on a class with more spell slots, like Shield. Getting them as spells known makes it particularly nice here.

@ChrisHonkala But don't forget that Hexblades also received the benefit of the redesigned Smite spells, since their spell list includes several. The 2024 versions of Smite spells are way better! This makes their spell list much more compelling even outside of getting them as prepared for free.

@ChrisHonkala But then we get into that first round of class features and check this out:
1. Medium armor and shield proficiency - on a mostly full caster! This right here is a huge buff to the survivability of the Hexblade, even if they never get close to melee! That armor class boost is huge

@ChrisHonkala 2. The ability to use charisma as your attack stat for a weapon of your choice - this was the real tipping point in game design where the attack stat being the spell casting modifier really took off. It's so good here on the Hexblade and made them so uniquely strong at that point

@ChrisHonkala 3. Hexblades Curse - a super version of Hex that the Hexblade can use once per short rest. Gives bonus damage equal to proficiency, an increased critical hit range against the target, and some temp HP when they go down. Really potent ability with a reasonable number of uses

@ChrisHonkala And that's where most players dipped out from Hexblade... not me, though!

6th level let you raise a Spectre from one of your fallen foes letting the Hexblade dip its toe in being a pet class. Not going to always see use but nice when the situation let you have your little buddy

@ChrisHonkala 10th is an at will reaction defense. I've heard it doesn't compare mathematically to other defenses, but I always felt like it really upped my survivability.

14th lets you get more use out of your Hexblades Curse by letting you move it to a new target after killing the previous

@ChrisHonkala I think it's important to remember that the Hexblade wasn't automatically bound to Pact of the Blade, it worked fine with any other Pact. So in 2024 I'm excited to see a pact-less Hexblade or a multi-pact Hexblade. It's always been more than just "the melee Warlock"...

@ChrisHonkala Since all of its class features supported any playstyle for the Warlock. In 2024, the ever popular Warlock feat, Moderately Armored, no longer does the trick of providing both medium armor and shields, further improving the value of this subclass!

@ChrisHonkala The revisions to Pact of the Blade may have made one aspect of this subclass less unique, but the package is still extremely strong and very front-loaded. Charisma to the attack stat isn't hard to get for a Warlock anyway. Eldritch Blast is still super compelling, after all.

@ChrisHonkala Challenge after Xanathar's Guide to Everything was to introduce subclasses that made the Hexblade not just the default option and that was successful, every Warlock subclass released after it in 5e and then all of the 2024 options stand shoulder to shoulder here and that's great!

@ChrisHonkala The last of the "Big 4", it's surprising how long it took to nail "Lich themed Warlock", but the Undead is a potent patron! Now, it's not 5e's first attempt at doing a Warlock who draws upon the Grave for their power, which we will still get to, but it is the successful one.

@ChrisHonkala The Undead comes to us from Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft, sporting a spell list that would make anyone's inner Goth kid swoon! Spells like Phantom Steed benefit from the changes to Ritual Casting, with the Undead having no issues casting the ritual.

@ChrisHonkala Meanwhile, surprised that Greater Invisibility wasn't already on the Warlock spell list. Ditto that for Anti Life Shell.

Their entry class feature is an alternate form that you can take proficiency times per day. This provides temp HP, at will fear effects, and immunity to fear

@ChrisHonkala Very potent and nice for a multiclass dip. Probably would be revised to be the spell casting modifier if ported to 2024

6th level lets the Undead go without sustenance. Oh and a damage kicker while in their "Form of Dread" state

10th level brings resistance to necrotic damage..

@ChrisHonkala And the ability to not die once per some number of long rests! The Undead recovers when dropped to 0 hit points and instead 2d10+warlock level in HP which isn't bad. It's certainly one of the better versions of this types of ability, keeping the Warlock on their feet with ok HP

@ChrisHonkala Then at 14th the Undead gains the ability to astral project which has powerful synergies when combined with their Form of Dread.

Look, this is the last warlock designed in 5E. It is incredibly mature in design.

@ChrisHonkala With the exception of abilities that key off proficiency for uses and the fact that the spells added to the list are an automatically prepared, everything else feels extremely modern and would require no update to fit in with the 2024 options!

@ChrisHonkala And that especially makes sense here because an undead themed Warlock is compelling narratively and I'd argue has almost as much grounding in lore as the Fiend

With that said its understandable that the first crack at a Warlock after the PHB tackled this idea in similar ways...

@ChrisHonkala Unfortunately when the Undying Warlock Patron was introduced in the Sword Coast Adventurers Guide, it was scaled to the relatively weak offerings that appeared in the 2014 Player's Handbook, the Fiend excluded of course.

@ChrisHonkala It's also no surprise that the Undead was basically a full replacement for the Undying. They just gave it a different name because it literally shares no common class trait. Still... Thematically it's a good concept, so it makes sense that WotC would take another swing at it.

@ChrisHonkala It's just kind of a shame that the Undying was left to exist in its original form though.

I mean, in 2024, the changes to spells helps a lot. There are actually some pretty interesting options and having those automatically prepared will definitely help this class in play.

@ChrisHonkala Silence and Contagion in particular stand out to me. Like, the list isn't that good, but having them as free preparations is always going to be nice. And unfortunately that's the best thing that this subclass has going for it in 2024.

@ChrisHonkala Their first round of class features gives them a fairly weak can trip, spare the dying, and makes it difficult to be attacked directly by undead. I say difficult because the Big Bads will blow through that saving throw no problem, but the mooks will probably avoid you.

@ChrisHonkala And that's it.

Moving on.

6th level, once per long rest you heal a small amount when you either make a death save or stabilize a creature. Once. Per. Long. Rest.

Moving on.

At 10th the Undying doesn't need sustenance and ages slower. Barely any mechanical value there.

@ChrisHonkala Moving on.

14th level is a once per short rest self heal. At 14th level. For like no HP, especially at 14th level. It's barely a 1st level cure spell.

I feel like I'm going crazy here!

Like, that was it! That's the whole damn subclass.

@ChrisHonkala It is baffling how bad the Undying Warlock is. I mean, it's technically better than having no subclass at all, but that is a very low bar considering how much the Warlock subclass usually brings. Even compared to the 2014 Players Handbook, this is the weakest Warlock subclass.

@ChrisHonkala And it's one I would just say "don't use". Like, just use the Undead. There is no mechanical reason to use the undying, nor is there a thematic one. The subclass has been completely replaced by the Undead and that's fine because the Undying needs to die.

@ChrisHonkala So that is the Warlock. With the exception of the Undying, every option published is incredibly strong. Assuming the change in how spell lists work is brought over to these, then these are all extremely viable options, though I don't think any one dominates.

@ChrisHonkala Each one has a strong theme and good mechanics, let's go do all the entries in the 2024 Players Handbook. It's an embarrassment of riches.

But, hey, next time I want to talk about a class known for permutations. Some might say it's in their blood. We're talking about Sorcerers!

@ChrisHonkala @threadreaderapp please unroll