Thread by @CaseAiken

So I have a thesis when it comes to 5e subclass design for the Sorcerer: they overestimated the class's relative potency and it took the whole of the edition's run for them to settle on the power level of Sorcerer subclasses.

This is pretty obvious to me. Look at the generally underperforming entries from the 2014 Players Handbook: Draconic and Wild Magic? One was underwhelming and one was almost worse than no subclass at all. The next few were the Storm Sorcerer, followed by Divine Soul and Shadow...

...and Storm ain't much to talk about, but Divine Soul and Shadow are both interesting. Then we get the entries from Tasha's: Clockwork and Aberrant Mind! Now we're talking! The big improvement is bonus spells known and that's a huge boost!

So it's no surprise to me that the Sorcerer as updated in 2024 features the two Tasha's options plus updates to the 2014 Players Handbook options. What is a surprise is that the base Sorcerer was buffed enough to merit the Tasha options getting slightly nerfed!

It's easy to miss on a first pass, but the Clockwork and Aberrant Sorcerers lost the ability to trade out spells from their subclass specific spell lists, which is a hot, especially to the Aberrant which had the weaker base spell list and really benefitted from trading out some.

But then the 2014 Players Handbook options have both been substantially buffed and definitely compete with the Tasha options. It's an exciting list of subclasses now!

But how do they rate with one another and with the backwards compatibile subclasses that weren't updated?

Let's knock out some blanket updates: subclass features were moved from 1st level to 3rd, as is the case for all classes now. At 1st, Sorcerers now get Innate Sorcery which is a nice little self buff that boosts their magic DCs.

Subclass features at 3, 6, 14, and 18.

Running down the subclasses in the 2024 Players Handbook, we start with the Aberrant (née Mind) Sorcerer, the psychic Sorcerer! While I may have wanted them to call this "The Wilder" in honor of the 3.5 class, I can't deny the efficacy of the subclass in addressing the theme!

The big gimmick for the class and its sibling from Tasha's, the Clockwork Sorcerer, is the expanded spell list... A feature laughably missing from previous 5e Sorcerer subclasses. This helped define the abilities of the subclass while retaining the flavor of a full caster.

Now, back when it first showed up in Tasha's, the Aberrant (Mind) featured the ability to exchange those bonus spells known for others of thematic schools of magic. This was a huge buff to the limited spells known of the 2014 Sorcerer...

But that's not as much an issue for the beefier spells known/prepared 2024 Sorcerer, so it seems, so that feature was removed, forcing players to settle for the spells that Wizards of the Coast laid out for them. It's a nerf, but not one most players would notice too much.

On that note, the bonus spells have two themes: "psychic" and "Eldritch abomination reaching from Fhtagn-ing who knows where" so you have things like Detect Thoughts and Telekinesis and also Arms of Hadar and Summon Aberration. It's a good enough list with nothing regrettable.

On that note, I think it's really fun that the subclass gives a free Mind Sliver cantrip. It's a perfectly on brand offensive cantrip that evokes the image of a psychic blaster. Does it beat out Sorcerous Burst or Firebolt, no, but it's a decent back up that targets a rare save.

When it comes to class features, 3rd level sees a fairly minor telepathic ability. Clearly those bonus spells are expected to carry a lot of weight.

6th level has a few features: a low cost ability to cast psychic spells, resistance to psychic damage, and advantage on some saves

14th lets you trade sorcery points for some really nice movement and sensory options. Good stuff!

18th is a dope ability to teleport and leave an implosive charge in your wake! It is so cool from a control perspective!

When Tasha's was published, the Aberrant (Mind) was probably the second most powerful Sorcerer option. Now, it's roughly in the middle of the 2024 pack... Maybe the bottom actually, but that's only because the others have caught up with it. It's a great subclass with a rich theme

Now, of course, there will be the real debate: the Aberrant Sorcerer or The Great Old One Warlock? I look forward to the meta maturing enough to settle that debate!

Back when it had "Soul", the Clockwork Sorcerer was the undisputed top dog of Sorcerer subclasses. As with the Aberrant, they came with a boatload of bonus spells to really boost the spellcasting ability of this primary caster, and likewise were slightly nerfed in 2024.

So they also are stuck with spells ordained by Wizards of the Coast, but they have an even better list than the Aberrant! Aid, Lesser Restoration, Wall of Force: all great options and generally not already on the Sorcerer spell list! The spells really do a lot of work here!

Their 3rd level class feature (formerly 1st level) is about orderly doing stuff. The class negates advantage or disadvantage for someone a number of times equal to their charisma modifier (formerly proficiency times per day)

The Clockwork Sorcerer is of course the one all about order. Drawing power through the fundamental logic of the multiverse, this is the Sorcerer that bucks the themes of random effects that are often associated with Sorcerers.

Their 6th level ability is a ward that trades sorcery points for an ablative protection that reduces incoming damage.

14th level is a trance state where you can't roll less than a 10 and also can't benefit from advantage.

Perfectly balanced. Just as it should be.

Lastly, at 18th level, you can create an orderly cube that bustles with the spirits of the orderly plains to rationally and orderly issue a number of positive benefits to you and your party, such as healing or dispelling magic. In an orderly fashion of course!

So we are left with a sorcerer, despite some small nerfs from their Tasha's incantation, that stands shoulder to shoulder with the best spell casters in the game, and has decent class features to boot.

The Clockwork Sorcerer isn't as dominant anymore, but that's because the others have caught up, really.

So let's look at the 2 options that are leftover from the 2014 Player's Handbook and see how they've been buffed to match the Aberrant and the Clockwork Sorcerers!

Back in 3rd edition D&D, the Sorcerer was introduced as a class for those with hints of Dragon Blood in their lineage, so it's not surprising that the Draconic Sorcerer was kind of the default option in 2014. Unfortunately, it didn't stack up to the options introduced later.

The 2024 update successfully brings up the Draconic Sorcerer to a level of parity with the other options. The big change is the inclusion of a spell list! The 2014 version provided no additional spells, but now offers spells like Dragon's Breath, Fear, Fly, and Summon Dragon.

The spell list is a pretty solid offering of Dragon themed entries. Not as versatile as the Clockwork, but probably on par with the Aberrant.

Meanwhile, as with the other 2024 subclasses, their features now start at 3rd instead of 1st.

Draconic Resilience has been slightly improved, now giving the Draconic Sorcerer an AC equalling their charisma modifier plus dexterity instead of a flat 13 plus dexterity. This will scale slightly higher and is now definitely better than Mage Armor.

6th level received a good improvement, making the Sorcerer always resistant to an energy type associated with their dragon ancestor instead of the short duration resistance they got in 2014

They also can add their charisma modifier to damage rolls with spells of that element too

14th level is the only spot where the Draconic Sorcerer got nerfed (for some reason). Previously, they just grew wings and gained a fly speed , but now that flight is limited in duration.

18th is another Summon ability that doesn't use a spell slot once per day...

... In this case the spell is Summon Dragon and as with the Great Old One and Fey Wanderer, the spell can be modified to be cast without concentration in exchange for a shorter duration.

This is a change from the 2014 version which got an aura of fear or awe. Good update!

So the Draconic Sorcerer has gone from the best of the worst to a pretty well up there option that easily keeps up with the Alumni of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.

The Sorcerer is about magic and a list of bonus spells really helps the class! That simple addition makes the Draconic so much better!

And so... It's surprising that the OTHER subclass from 2014 is even more improved but is missing that specific feature...

...and that's because the Wild Magic Sorcerer works differently! Instead of a table of spells prepared, they get Wild Magic Surge which gives the chance of random magical effects to kick in as a rider to standard spell casting.

Back in 2014, this table was on the DM to manage and most of the options were bad or at least neutral. I know the 2014 version had some love (I see you @TheMazero) but it was arguably worse than having no subclass at all from an optimization standpoint. No longer!

@TheMazero Now the random effects are triggered by rolling well instead of poorly and it's all framed as a positive thing. The effects are big and almost all good now. Fireballs and charm effects that used to punish the player now are offensive options that empower them!

@TheMazero Their 3rd level feature, Tides of Chaos, is basically the reverse of the Clockwork's Restore Balance ability, giving the player advantage on a D20 roll. It's a pretty minor feature, but nice as a secondary ability. Wild Surge is the big feature at 3rd after all.

@TheMazero 6th level is another odds booster, letting the Wild Magic Sorcerer spend sorcery points to add a d4 to a D20 roll

14th gives the Sorcerer more control of the rolls on the Wild Magic table letting them roll twice and choose which to go with. It's still random but more likely good

@TheMazero 18th lets the Wild Magic Sorcerer pick an effect from their table once per day, making the ability even more of an arsenal for the Sorcerer.

The Wild Magic Sorcerer feels random but the dice are weighted in the Player's favor!

@TheMazero So how do the 2014 options stack up? We know that the options in the 2024 handbook are generally not quite as powerful as the most powerful 2014 options but also way better than the worst of the 2014 options. Theres also no completely new option, so we can reference existing meta

@TheMazero We also know that the base Sorcerer is way better. They get roughly 50% more spells prepared, they get better metamagic options (even if the best, Twin Spell, was nerfed beyond recognition), and even get some new features like Innate Sorcery to boost them up!

@TheMazero So no matter what, the 2014 options should at least fare somewhat reasonably against their 2024 cousins. While you can expect some base improvements if any of these were ever ported to 2024, as it is they are theoretically viable, but let's test that out!

@TheMazero So, again, Sorcerers join the rest of all classes getting their subclass at 3rd level. I don't think there's any specific conversion necessary besides that.

@TheMazero We start with the Divine Soul Sorcerer, which is frankly the subclass I'm most surprised didnt make it into the 2024 Players Handbook. Although, that's probably because it's the Sorcerer I have the most experience with since a player of mine ran one in a several year game I DMed.

@TheMazero The Divine Soul is best known for being the Sorcerer that got access to the Cleric spell list in addition to the Sorcerer one. In 2014, this was tough to juggle because the Sorcerer got so few spells known and this didn't do much to help that.

@TheMazero Sure, the Divine Soul gets a bonus spells known, depending on alignment, but that's a pittance compared to the majority of 2024 offerings. But the class does get greater flexibility than most and that's pretty rad!

@TheMazero But, hey, there's actually some very nice class features here!

1st/3rd is a very nice per short rest boost to missed saving throws or attacks (you use after you already failed) that adds 2d4 to the number.

@TheMazero This is usually enough to make the difference! It's a good feature and gets a reasonable amount of uses!

6th level is ostensibly a free metamagic that lets the Divine Soul reroll healing dice, the same way a normal Empower rerolls damage dice...

@TheMazero ...in 2014, the math didn't really support using this ability outside of niche circumstances. The good healing spells in 2014 were static amounts, not determined by dice. I'm not sure how the math works with the 2024 healing spells but I'm assuming this is still a humdrum feature

@TheMazero 14th level is a set of wings that functioned identically to the 2014 version of the Draconic sorcerer. This was a pretty good feature in 2014 and I am worried that it would be similarly nerfed. I'm the meantime, it's pretty dope! Angel or Devil wings and unlimited flight is cool!

@TheMazero Like, a Sorcerer could still just pick up Fly or some other spell, but it is really fun for a character bit just to have it built in.

It's a really nice feature!

@TheMazero 18th level is a once per long rest fairly sizable self-heal ability... It's good when you need it but seriously lacking in number of uses. It's particularly weird to be so weak an ability for one that comes at 18th goddamn level!

@TheMazero So the Divine Soul is a very versatile Sorcerer that receives several noticeable improvements because of the improvements the base sorcer itsepf received. The Divine Soul is behind the 2024 offerings, but not that much and is still really good in multi-class situations.

@TheMazero And that's fitting. The Divine Soul went through a lot of iterations in playtest prior to being published in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. It's based on the Favored Soul from 3.5, which was the Divine equivalent to the Sorcerer.

Getting the balance of this much versatility is hard. Early test versions were way too strong and the final version was fine for the then current Sorcerer meta, but the game has progressed since then. Compared to what we got in Tasha's or now in 2014, it's a little weak...

But it has a very strong theme and offers excellent options for multi-classing (looking at you, Sorc-adins) so it's worth considering if you want to play a Sorcerer that can heal!

I expect them to get an update to 2024 and would imagine that they get a bonus spells list a little more robust than the current, uh, 1 spell they get. We've seen greater availability of the Cleric list in 2024, so the gimmick of this class is less pronounced and needs some buffs

Next up we have a very powerful Sorcerer option... and wouldn't you know it? It's the last one published in the 2014 5e ruleset. The Lunar Sorcerer is inspired by the setting of Krynn from Dragonlance but can work in any setting (assuming there's ever been a moon in the setting).

Coming so late in 5e, this Sorcerer has a lot of quality of life improvements that we don't see with most options. Honestly, it's even closer to the 2024 subclasses than even the Tasha versions of Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul Sorcerers!

Their 1st/3rd level feature is all about spellcasting. Nominally the Sorcerer gets to pick from one of 3 spell lists to gain as bonus spells. Each list is inspired by a phase of the moon. There isn't actually a choice, however, since the Full Moon is way better than the others.

Right off the bat they get Shield! And with the changes to Ritual Casting getting spells like Rory's Telepathic Bond feel much more impactful!

But that's just my opinion, man. Fortunately, the Sorcerer can switch lists each Long Rest, giving the class tremendous flexibility.

They also get Sacred Flame as a bonus cantrip with the slight buff that they can hit a second target with it if there are two right next to each other. Nice little save or suck damage cantrip, and hey it's free, but you'll probably still stick with Firebolt or Sorcerous Burst.

At 6th level, the Lunar Sorcerer gets to reduce the cost of their metamagic for schools of magic associated with their Phase of the Moon. This makes it slightly more compelling to sometimes take a phase besides Full Moon.

Also, at this level the Lunar Sorcerer can spend a Sorcery point to change their associated Lunar Phase. This is huge and increases that already impressive flexibility even more so! Now for the cost of a Sorcery point, the Sorcerer can instantly swap out up to 5 spells!

14th level is mostly a utility improvement, granting Full and New Moon Phases bonuses to some decent skills like perception or stealth. Meanwhile, Crescent Moon, and to a lesser extent New Moon, offers mild combat bonuses. This is an ok feature, but not game changing.

Level 18 is a cool bonus effect for each Lunar Phase, ranging from the Full Moon getting a crowd control option and a heal, to New Moon getting its own crowd control and some damage, and finally Crescent Moon getting a nifty teleport ability.

It's all good, but unlikely to be the reason why one would pick that Lunar Phase.

The Lunar Sorcerer is a very spellcasting focused Sorcerer and the bonuses it gets really focus on that flexible ability to switch out a bunch of spells prepared at once. This is a great Sorcerer subclass, possibly the best now that Aberrant and Clockwork got a little nerfed.

That said, it's not "too powerful". Even with the buffed base Sorcerer, the Lunar Sorcerer still isn't beating out a Wizard in terms of flexibility in casting. The Sorcerer is still constrained by action economy and spell slots, regardless of spells they have access to.

I'd imagine this would be an easy update to 2024. Lunar Boon at 6th level is proficiency times per day, so make that charisma modifier times per day. Everything else seems ready to go in 2024. That said, it is from a book that was just published and barely needs updates...

...so like would Wizards of the Coast spend the energy to update the subclass or just do like an errata? I dunno. The point is that the Lunar Sorcerer already fits pretty well in 2024 with the design language and general power level. Might be at the top but it's only slightly.

Next up is the "other" subclass from Xanathar's Guide to Everything (funny how that book has a lot of those kind of subclasses... Y'know, the less flashy but fine entries that no one talks about), the Shadow Sorcerer!

While people don't give it the air that they do the Divine Soul, I'd say it's roughly par powerwise and certainly has design similarities, speaking again to the changing design language on display with the Sorcerer over the course of 5e.

Of course what I mean by that is spells. The Sorcerer is a spellcasting class after all. More so than the Warlock, the subclass is in service to their spellcasting and around the time Xanathar's was coming out, that meant a bonus spells or two and interesting class features.

The Shadow Sorcerer kind of feels like an attempt at creating that World of Warcraft style Shadow Priest: a dark caster calling on the powers of the void or realms of darkness.

To that end, their main ability at 1st/3rd level is "Eyes of the Dark"...

They get pretty good darkvision and learn the Darkness spell and can cast it using Sorcery points at a discounted rate! BONUS: When cast using Sorcery points the Shadow Sorcerer can see through their magical darkness, which is often difficult to use without penalizing oneself.

Then they also get a blah ability to not be dropped to 0 HP once per long rest. It requires a save to use too. It's a worse version of the Half-Orc ability to stay standing... BUT with no official Half-Orc in 2024, maybe that's a little more valuable!

But a lesser ability at the start is pretty par for the course with Sorcerer subclasses and their spell focused ability of darkvision and cheaper castings of Darkness are pretty nice!

6th level is where the subclass starts to come alive in a really weird way: for some reason the Shadow Sorcerer gets a Shadow Hound which uses beefed up Dire Wolf specs. This lets the Shadow Sorcerer dabble as a pet class, but the Hound can only go after a single target.

The Hound costs 3 Sorcery points, which is not cheap, but it's pretty good and only costs a bonus action to activate! It's certainly a viable use of those points!

14th level is the fairly table stakes for a Shadow class ability to teleport from shadow to shadow, which plays very nicely with the subclass's ability to create magical darkness at a discount.

18th level is where this really becomes the World of Warcraft Shadow Priest as the subclass gets a VERY expensive transformation ability, turning into a shadow form for a whopping 6 Sorcery points! In exchange they get resistance to most damage and can pass through solid objects.

The Shadow Sorcerer seems pretty solid as far as Sorcerers and probably was sitting pretty in the meta prior to Tasha's Cauldron of Everything coming out. It's not quite as flashy out the gate as Divine Soul, but it's later level features are all bangers!

Compared to the newer options, it suffers because of a lack of spellcasting options, but the actual subclass features are strong enough to make it still viable, especially with the more robust spells known/prepared that Sorcerers get in 2024.

It's not going to be the most powerful Sorcerer on the block, but it won't suffer as bad as the rest of the list.

So on that note, let's talk...

The Storm Sorcerer!

Coming to us from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide and then reprinted in Xanathar's Guide to Everything with minimal changes, this is the subclass that was designed with the 2014 PHB Sorcerer subclasses in mind for power scaling.

Don't get me wrong, the theme is great! Drawing power from the Storms is evocative! The downside is that this subclass doesn't do much for the base Sorcerer and that continues to be the case even with a stronger Sorcerer frame to hang it on.

The subclass opens its offerings with the Ribbon feature of speaking Elemental. Not bad to have but not really a feature.

Next up is a short little flying hop when the Sorcerer casts a spell. It can get them out of danger fairly well, but the range is very short.

And that's it for 1st/3rd level. No bonus spells or other class features to beef up this Sorcerer's spellcasting.

6th level is a little beefier, getting the standard 2 features at that level.

Heart of the Storm is some nice resistances to Thunder and Lightning damage, which is thoroughly on brand. Furthermore the Storm Sorcerer gets a damage rider for spells that deal Thunder or Lightning damage...

...which is good when it comes up but ideally doesn't trap the Storm Sorcerer with suboptimal spells. @ChrisHonkala has been very vocal about that being a pitfall of this subclass. Sorcerers just don't have great thunder and lightning spells and this subclass doesn't address that

@ChrisHonkala The other 6th level feature would definitely come up in a nautical campaign, but probably wouldn't matter outside of brief periods in most games. The Storm Sorcerer can shift the direction of rain and winds in ways that have limited gameplay impact.

@ChrisHonkala 14th level is a reaction response to taking damage that's kind of like Hellish Rebuke, but unlimited. Probably not the best feature but it will see use!

@ChrisHonkala 18th level is pretty dope. Not going to lie. Immunity to Thunder and Lightning Damage and a permanent flight speed that the Storm Sorcerer can share with allies!

@ChrisHonkala Getting updated to 2024, a lot would be accomplished with a decent list of bonus spells, including some storm themed cantrips! Seriously, the fact that they don't even get Gust is maddening! Of all the 2014 Sorcerers, this is the one that needs an update the most.

@ChrisHonkala It would be hard to recommend anyone using a Storm Sorcerer in 2024. Their features are pretty lackluster until 18th level and that isn't saving the subclass. A player can accomplish a lot of the same vibe by going Draconic Sorcerer and taking Blue Dragons as their lineage.

@ChrisHonkala And that covers the official Sorcerers! It's a weird spread, with most of the weakest options from 2014 getting sizable improvements in the 2024 PHB. Really, it's just Storm Sorcery that needs serious revisions and the rest need a once over.

@ChrisHonkala Divine Soul and Shadow Sorcerer are both heavily improved by the changes to the base Sorcerer. They could use tweaking to match the 2024 options, but they offer good stuff that can't be ignored!

@ChrisHonkala But let's continue this conversation by going back to a more martial class when we discuss the Monk!

@ChrisHonkala @threadreaderapp please unroll