Thread by @BHDemocracyNews

We have a special Place Overview and Scrutiny Committee taking place taking place today on Patcham Court Farm #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

The report being considered by the OSC is going before cabinet tomorrow and is the disposal of Patcham Court Farm on a long lease to Royal Mail #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

Councillor Jacob Taylor says he recognises the concerns and objections raised in planning, which were legitimate to raise. Planning is a separate quasi judicial process. Cabinet will consider a separate decision on commercial transactions #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

The derelict farm buildings are separate to the agricultural land and were separated by the development of the A27 says Cllr Taylor. It is a superb opportunity for the council with many benefits. The site is not suitable for park and ride #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

There is a need for affordable housing but the site has considerable development costs that are related to contamination. If it was to be developed the basic cost is £3.6 million says Cllr Taylor. High density housing is closer to be viable but bring other challenges #LDreporter

The site will offer high envionmental standards and will be a flagship delivery for Royal Mail says Cllr Taylor. It is the universal mail service provider that exists in statute and has to deliver items in certain times #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

The develpment would ensure 380 jobs in the city. The current sites are unsuitable. Royal Mail is struggling with recruitment says Cllr Taylor. Royal Mail is clear this is the only viable site and the company would consider other options. The site would reduce HGV movements

There have been numerous attempts to develop the site says Cllr Taylor. If agreed tomorrow it would be a significant step forward for the city. There would be more affordable housing (on one of the Royal Mail's former sites likely Denmark Villas in #Hove) #LDreporter

Michael from the Older People's Council raises concerns about where people will pick up parcels.
Cllr Taylor said another facility in the town centre will have a space for people to pick up missed deliveries. It will not be a collection from Patcham #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

.@Brunswick_Green likes the consolidation approach and removing HGVs from the city centre, but there are alarm bells. We need to be careful when finalising the lease. Royal Mail is in the ownership of a Czech private entity. There needs to be protection of the site in the lease

@Brunswick_Green The lease length goes way beyond the use of the site for the delivery technology. We're not going to have trucks going from Patcham into the city in 50 years. We need a say over future use. #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green Cllr Taylor says in terms of protections those need to come in the terms of the lease. We know its privately owned but Royal Mail are out posties and they're embedded in the community. They are highly unionised. #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green Cllr Taylor says when we think about long leases. If they're going to make a significant investment they need some security, they're not going to invest millions for 10/20 ears.

Estates manager says in 100 years time negotiations can be made. #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green .@AnneMeadowsBTN gestimates the lease as £3 million by understanding how the council works and the budget price set in Feb 2024. Most contracts last 125 years. That allows considerable investment. Why 250 years? What's the reasoning? There is a permeable membrane for 50 years

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN A long time will pass before anything happens. We'll all be gone says @AnneMeadowsBTN 250 doesn't matter? It matters to me. The council bought the land to protect the water supply 100 years ago. Now the Labour council will undo all that good work. You find money for pet projects

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN Park and ride wasn't considered because it was too small. Withdean is even smaller. The real reason is too much run off after rain and it would contribute to flooding on Old London Road. Royal Mail will be able to make job losses, why 2 senior manager, duplicated back office

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN North Roa and Denmark Villas are on the city plan. Saying they will be used for social housing is untrue. The council's own housing department cannot afford these sites as council builds are expensive as they are built to the highest standard.

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN Royal Mail will not sell at an affordable price. Royal Mail will sell for expensive flats. Homes for Brighton and Hove is not awash with money either. The council is being given first refusal. This doesn't mean that the current housing consortium can afford.

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN Denmark Villas should be sold to the council at a similar rate to the council "giving away" Patcham Court Farm. What is there to stop Royal Mail from dragging this out financially. It is rare to give 250 year contracts. The £3 million divided by 250 years is £12k a year

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN 14 1/2 generations will be affected by this site. Royal Mail could sell off in 20 years time or subletting the land for an unsuitable use says @AnneMeadowsBTN There is no clause to stop a sale or subletting at a higher rate. We need a clause to stop the resale and sublet

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN Cllr Taylor says 90% of what @AnneMeadowsBTN said was inaccurate. Southern Water did not object. Jobs will go to a different site. There is nothing anywhere that says the council can't afford the home site. There has been a viability done on a 100% affordable development

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN Cllr Taylor says the two are linked and the council will go for the viable site in #Hove There is no need to sign the deal unless the cabinet is happy with the deal #Brighton site is likely to be too expensive for the joint venture and council, but that does not mean no affrdable

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN By making a 250 year lease the council keeps the freehold. Circus Street is 250 lease. Marina is 250, it is common for big commercial developments says Cllr Taylor. The council gets protection by leasing #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN .@MarkStrongQP says 30 years ago councillors voted against Waitrose opening an out of town shopping centre. At the time the figure was £8million for John Lewis. We have the planning consent but once sold there is no control over what happens. #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP He is concerned about the lack of investigation into Park and Ride. It is dealt with glibly, other concepts are looked at in greater depth. Why was it not considered a a viable option. Workers will need transport going to the site. #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP It's not good use of land it's not retaining jobs says Cllr Taylor. Park and ride has a summary it's been talked about a lot in the council and there are reasons why. Now we have a real decision with planning consent. #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP Cllr Julie Cattell says there are 46 conditions on the application and it can only be used for a mail storage and distribution centre. The reason for the condition is to limit the use class to enable the council to control the development in detail #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP Hopefully that allays concerns about future use of the site says Cllr Cattell. Future generations will find the condition still holds.
@tj_sheard is supportive, it's a shame it's not housing but that applies to all sites. It is an employment site in the city plan #LDreporter

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard Using the site for park and ride would be a missed opportunity and would bring frequent bus use. @tj_sheard hates to think what multiple buses would do for residents. Thre is the option of a full electrical fleet and reducing air pollution #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard It's a shame Royal Mail is privatised and most of us probably want to see it brought back to the government, but there is no point in trying to change the past says @tj_sheard the provider of postal services wants to use #Brighton for developing its future we can benefit from

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard Park and ride is coming to cabinet in January to assess a few more options says @TrevMu10 #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 Cllr Maureen Winder gives the example of the race course and whether to add extra protections around the land. The race course has ended up with parking all around on the green space outside. Residents in Hanover and Elm Grove are upset about this #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 Cllr Taylor there is a jigsaw puzzle of planning, transport, commercial decisions and housing. It fits in the city plan that sets out suggested use of land and sits within planning law and policy. Planning permission includes the number of parking spaces #LDreporter #Brighton

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 I would like to see housing on this report says @theresfowler She is pleased Southern Water is not concerns but she wants to know why housing was not suitable for the site. Would that have put more pressure on the aquifer? #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 @theresfowler Cllr Taylor said housing was the first consideration. Whether 100% council or joint with Hyde or private the first question is the viability, the cost of the land and construction does it stack up. The council can't do non-viable schemes #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 @theresfowler There is contamination because it used to be a farm There is no viability for low-rise housing To be viable needs high rise housing but this would be in view of the national park. There's also strategic locations. #Hove is more sustainable near bus routes, railway, schools, shops

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 @theresfowler Michael from the older people's council says Patcham is well served by the 5. It is a 10 minute walk. That is acceptable for workers but discourages commuting bus users.
Cllr Taylor says an additional bus service is committed to to serve the site. #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 @theresfowler Should mention they're in closed session now #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 @theresfowler And we're back in public #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 @theresfowler Chair @Amandae995995 asks if members want to make any recommendations.

@MarkStrongQP says there is a plan for a diverted bus service in the morning, what about going home? That's an oversight #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 @theresfowler @Amandae995995 .@Amandae995995 wants it noted that the council wants the best possible deal with the least possible room for manoeuvre.

@AnneMeadowsBTN is concerned about sub letting to a sub division. There are many divisions the council may not agree with. #LDreporter #Brighton

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 @theresfowler @Amandae995995 From the planning permission it is only for the use of mail distribution says @Amandae995995

Cllr Taylor it is a distribution centre, it cannot be converted into a concert hall. Its use is restricted to distribution centre and this is in the lease #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 @theresfowler @Amandae995995 .@AnneMeadowsBTN does not agree to the position. She wants strong conditions leaving Royal Mail writtling on the end of a hook. We won't be around in 60 years time. She has real concerns about the future
@Amandae995995 we agree but we're not voting on the proposal #LDreporter

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 @theresfowler @Amandae995995 .@Amandae995995 We're voting on sending our concerns to cabinet.

The vote is unanimous to send an extract. @AnneMeadowsBTN is assured her concerns will be listed and all committee member's concerns. #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 @theresfowler @Amandae995995 Patcham Court Farm is going before cabinet tomorrow #LDreporter #Brighton #Hove

@Brunswick_Green @AnneMeadowsBTN @MarkStrongQP @tj_sheard @TrevMu10 @theresfowler @Amandae995995 @threadreaderapp unroll