We will shortly be covering the final session of day 4 of the ET of nurse Sandie Peggie (SP) v Fife Health Board and Dr Upton (DU).
DU is still giving evidence in chief to counsel Jane Russell KC (JR).
Earlier coverage and full abbreviations are here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fi…
JR After going home, how many days off work?
DU 3 days and returned day shift on 28th
JR On 27th, what happened?
DU Due to work day shift, feeling shaky, not heard from KS and nervous about returning. Ask Dr Higgins, explained had distressing incident and worried re returning
DU Cld she buddy me into work. Walk in w me. She had train issues so I went in alone, got scrubs, went to CR, Sarah reg there and a Staff nurse. Cubicle was locked, thought was possibly the C. Took shoes off, door opened it was the C. Picked stuff up and left. Got changed in
DU cupboard in plaster room, across a corridor. After getting new scrubs. The plaster room is quite big, about same size as CR. Has lots of physio equip in it.
JR Why did u chose this?
DU Didnt want to see the C and she was escalating
JR U chnaged elsewhere?
DU Bathroom on consultant corridor. Explains moving around and putting things in locker
JR Email to KS on ?26th Dec
DU We met in consultant office. Told her the story, reiterated what happened. Told her v upset and anxious and worried about being at work [taking a moment]
DU Said liked being at work, enjoy, but dont want to be here w C here. Discussed possible next steps. EP also present (DrP). She was also working then and cld corroborate what I said.
JR Corroborated her
DU That had spoken, was distressed and walked to car
JR What actions decided?
DU A couple. Looked at B&H policies, what was under hatred, internal ? that stores guidance. We found policy on hate incidents or hate on characteristics...finding pages
JR Bullet points: did u discuss any of these?
DU Harassment and bullying definitally, offensive, was it also verbal abuse?
JR Look at B&H policy
Which PC is relevant?
DU GR
JR Re types of harassing behaviour, 12 bullets
DU Comments offensive, ignoring when try to speak to her
DU Personal & inapprop Qs. Offensive & inapprop comments. denial of my identity. Use of derog terms - is man derogatory but thing in my context I think it is. Deliberate behav that doesnt accept my PC. Isnt consistent, as she hadnt denied my identity before, but xmas incident was
DU not acknowledging my identity. Repeats non-acceptance and claearly demonstartes non-acceptance
JR What next
DU Approp was complete a datex, a system for raising concernsw. General purpose and used for lots of things. Makes ppl aware of incidents, eg needle stick.
DU Also hate incidents. This datex was completed by someone else but accurate. KS completed it. I gave her the info, she wanted my language to be used and my views. Wanted me to be comf w what said
JR Refs chromosomes and prison refs. How did u know was a rapist?
DU On the radio
DU We wrote during mtg and she submitted shortly afterwards
JR Why was datex correct thing to do
DU Cos policy said to. none had reported a hate incident b4. Never been subjected to a hate incident b4. Following policy
JR What else discussed?
DU Drafting a formal complaint to send seperately. What support I might need. Referral to occupational health, speak to my GP, attend private counselling org via GP to process what had happened to me
JR Look at complaint document. What version is this?
DU Initial.
JR Includes Timeline and description [lists multiple dates] Then BMA involved - Robert Ronald- attached to 15 Jan email. What did BMA add?
DU Req copy of draft. Had a phone convo. Advice was re including correct info including ppl's names rather than anon. And info
DU re my role. What to expect
JR Why ask for help
DU Had never drafted a CX before. Thought they'd be helpful, had respect at work policy. Be good for advice.
JR Looking at final CX version
DU Yes is final version
JR On 29th Dec, what was work pattern. Had a few AE shifts
DU ahead of secondment to anaesthetics. Had communicated that wldnt work shifts w C. KS would review rota and compare our shifts. If overlap, DU wld not attend. Secondment was 4 weeks
JR Any more mtgs?
DU Yes, ED and DR Current on ? Cant remeber date. Dr Kerr sees the Datexs
DU DK said an IX and suspension ahead of IX, a nutral act as worked out how to proceed.
JR When did u learn of C's claim?
DU MArch. Made me pretty afraid. Not totally unexpected, afraid it wld happy as a strong recent history og gps who deny reality of trans ppl to advance
their polit agenda and I dint want to be exposed to this
JR Why C added u as a R?
DU I dont know. I didnt see a reason as was a hospital decision re CR. Felt a personal issue. Opposition to me and my presence rather than gen belief. Felt targetted
JR How long off work for?
DU 8 weeks and then phased return. And now off since 13 Jan, officially until 2 Feb
JR Why off sick?
DU Been informed of legal action. Clin Lead told me it was happening. At end of March, CM told me in dept that C returning to work which I found diff
DU As concerned re future incidents w her, coming across her. And legal issues. Cldnt eliminate chance of coming across her. Had a panic attack and called in sick (early April)
JR When interviewed re IX
Early May I think [confirms the record] AG interviewd, MSF and Caroline on
notes and KS for support
JR Returned?
DU Early MAay. Originally at home. Then working non-clin at hospital for a week. Then 2 wks supernummary shifts. Not on list if had to leave or got upset. Then back on day shifts until Aug 24 work pattern.
DU So 4 weeks until normal work pattern
JR ANy interactions w the C?
No
JR Nov hearing for this case: what's happened to you since decision?
DU Aware of, have avoided SM and news, been informed by ppl I've asked to inform me that numerous articles about me. Hostile SM activit
DU Private info made available. Trying to ID me at work. Contacting members of family. Upsetting as private. Derog and hostile convos re me and my community. Dont want articles and photos of me going around in this media circle. Cant leave house. V anxous and hard when fears com
DU true. On Sertraline and propanolol for anxiety. Has been pretty miserable. Had to disconnect my SM, most ppl supportive but being sent hostile headlines.
JR What do u mean by hostile SM
NC Is this relevant questioning?
JR I'm happy to move on. In your hands J.
J Why is it relevant to the issues we need to address?
JR U might recall in skeleton argument my 1ry is the only harassment is C meted out to R2. My Q is the effects of what C has done in CR and making R2 a R, objecting anonymity
JR Causing distress. That's why I'm asking
J I will allow
JR Just 1 more re negative and hostile media
DU Ppl are circulating old photos and my deadname that I rarely share. Attempt to demean my experience and identity and that of other T ppl. Asking to ID me on shift
DU Msging my family for photos - I consider this hostile behaviour
JR Looking at other docs. When did u write this?
End of Jan, and this version on 23.1, as v4. This doc as formal complaint I said do u want full account or just Xmas. So prev incidents removed
JR Now formal CX, when did you submit this final version?
DU I believe end of Jan
JR Thank you Miss, er Dr Upton that's the end of my questions for you.
J In view of the time, we'll start your cross examination at 10 o'clock tomorrow
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Abbreviations:
C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russel, barrister for Rs
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs
Day 5 of Peggie vs NHS Board Fife and Dr Upton is expected to begin at 10 am today. Naomi Cunningham will begin her cross examination of Dr Upton.
Previous reporting, background on the case and links to press coverage can be found here on our Substack. open.substack.com/pub/tribunaltw…
Abbreviations:
C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russel, barrister for Rs
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs
We will shortly return with the first pm session of Sandie Peggie v Fife Health Board and Dr Upton.
Background information, earlier coverage and press articles can be found on our Substack linked below
Abbreviations
C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russel, barrister for Rstribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fi…
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs
J - Employment Judge Alexander Kemp
ET - Employment Tribunal
P1, P2 - additional panel members
CR - changing room
AE - Accident & emergency department
PCP - provision, criteria or practice
SM - Sex Matters
HR - Human Rights
Abbreviations
C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russel, barrister for Rs
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs
Abbreviations
C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russel, barrister for Rs
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs
We'll shortly be reporting from the 2nd afternoon session on day 3 of the employment tribunal of Sandie Peggie v Fife Health Board and Dr Upton. The respondent's counsel Jane Russell KC (JR) is cross examining Maya Forstater (MF) of Sex Matters (SM).
J We don't have any Qs Ms F so you can leave the box. Who is next?
NC Darren Peggie (DP)
J Can you call him?
[DP sworn in]
NC Please confirm yr name but not yr home address in the circumsatances. What's yr status and occupation