Sir Humphrey Profile picture
Mar 15 21 tweets 8 min read Read on X
This is one of the final design options for the Type 43 Destroyer. This little known cancelled project to succeed the Type 42, was far more important than generally realised, and far more capable too.

A short thread on the forgotten destroyer design. /1 Image
The Type 43 emerged in the late 1970s as the successor platform to T42, intended to carry Seadart to provide air defence to task forces operating globally, but particularly in the North Atlantic. Image
By 1979 the goal of the design was to help the RN get 20 AAW platforms in the fleet. The aim was to maximise the number of engagements that each ship could manage, with the T43 capable of handling 4 channels of fire, vice the 2 of the T42 Image
Type 43 was designed from the outset to be a highly capable platform, able to manage the highest levels of threats. The goal was to make it survivable, potentially using 2 x Sea Dart & Seawolf missile launchers. This much is well understood. But, then 'things got weird' Image
As the design grew, so did the aspiration for it. The next requirement bolted on for the T43 was to go from being AAW, to also being an ASW platform as well. Now she was to operate Seaking/Merlin sized helos, and deploy Towed Array or VDS to prosecute submarine targets. Image
To make it even more ASW focused, the RN decided to add the requirement to deploy Ikara, essentially a flying torpedo, to the design! This was now becoming a monster ASW and AAW platform, only mirrored by HMS BRISTOL. Image
To ensure that the gunnery officers were kept busy, it was intended to fit a 76mm Otto Melara gun, and MM38 Exocet missiles as well to provide a punchy anti-surface warfare capability. Suddenly you have a monster of a platform on your hands... Image
The result was a platform capable, on paper, of carrying out simultaneous task group area air defence operations, and carrying out Towed Array sonar work against Soviet submarines. Basically a 42/22 combo on one hull - a very bold strategy. Image
Multiple designs were explored, but the definitive version by 1979 that the RN seriously looked at was the 4 COF design although debate raged about fitting one or two Seadart launchers (and never seems to have been finalised). Image
The ships particulars were huge. Of the four designs, they were 6400 standard - 8600 deep displacement, and 156- 166m long with 398 - 435 crew. These would have been the size of COUNTY class DDGs - very large and very capable. Image
They were expensive platforms - the cost estimated at £199 - £224m per hull (around £1bn in 2025 prices), when the entire budget was around £15bn per year. The RN expected to spend £2.5bn on the project for 10 ships, the same as they planned to spend on the TRAFALGAR class SSN. Image
The design the RN fell in love with was incredible, and probably the most balanced surface ship design of the Cold War. It would have been a superb combination of AAW and ASW capability on paper, even if in practise it was hard to do both missions at the same time. Image
The planners and the requirements team came under heavy pressure to defend their position. This image shows the sort of defence robustly mounted to the Vice Chief Naval Staff, explaining why the RN NEEDED the 'Ferrari', not the 'Ford Focus'... Image
The requirements team loved the design, but VCNS felt that it had no prospect of success. When an RN 3* is advocating buying the RAF more Tornado jets to do air defence over buying an air defence destroyer, you should realise your project is in trouble! Image
Wiser heads rapidly prevailed in the RN and noted that the plan would not meet with Ministerial support, and that there would be other ways of building the ship. This note sums up the Naval Staff view though on why Type 43 was the answer to the problem. Image
Image
The Controller of the Navy probably sounded the death knell for the project with firm direction that a Type 43 should cost no more than 2/3rds the cost of 2 x Type 42. A harsh but necessary dose of realism. Image
The plan was to order the first Type 43 in 1984/1985, and the first entry to service in 1989. It is entirely possible that if ordered, they would still be in service today, as they would have been built on similar timeframe to the Type 23. The RN would likely not have got T45... Image
Even in 1979 the view was the hull would last 20-30 years and had the space to be modernised to carry VLS silos and potentially AEGIS like capabilities. Its likely we'd have them in service today in some way. Image
The T43 was cancelled in 1980, with a brief focus on the T44 (an austere version based on T22 hull) not progressing far before the Nott Review of 1981. The RN then looked to the NATO Frigate Replacement and Horizon project before finally building T45. Image
HMS DARING entered service in 2009, 20 years after Type 43 should have done so. In size and dimensions, the two designs are not dissimilar, although T45 is a far more capable AAW platform. It will remain 'the one that got away'. Image
This thread on the Type 43 destroyer may interest @NavyLookout @UKDefJournal @EngageStrategy1 @fightingsailor @navalhistorian @c21st_sailor @DrRowanAllport @ajcboyd @BeaverWestminst @IBallantyn @CovertShores @TomSharpe134 @simonharley @alessionaval @Strategyforwar1

• • •

Missing some Tweet in this thread? You can try to force a refresh
 

Keep Current with Sir Humphrey

Sir Humphrey Profile picture

Stay in touch and get notified when new unrolls are available from this author!

Read all threads

This Thread may be Removed Anytime!

PDF

Twitter may remove this content at anytime! Save it as PDF for later use!

Try unrolling a thread yourself!

how to unroll video
  1. Follow @ThreadReaderApp to mention us!

  2. From a Twitter thread mention us with a keyword "unroll"
@threadreaderapp unroll

Practice here first or read more on our help page!

More from @pinstripedline

Nov 18
This is HMS ARK ROYAL in 2008. In 1992 the Royal Navy made serious plans to permanently convert her to an LPH in place of ordering HMS OCEAN.

Thread on the 'LPH that never was'... Image
Throughout the 1980s the RN wanted to buy two Aviation Support Ships (ASS) to replace HMS HERMES and BULWARK to support the Royal Marines if they moved to Norway during wartime.

These ships would have supported the 3 INVINCIBLE class, and the 2 LPDs. Image
These plans were delayed by the end of the Cold War, but the RN still badly wanted to have an LPH with large flight deck capable of moving troops and equipment to support global power projection. The problem was that there was no money in the budget for these ships. Image
Read 20 tweets
Nov 10
This is the Argentine Navy aircraft carrier 25 De Mayo.

On 29 April 1982, during the early stages of the Falklands War the MOD met to discuss a paper setting out the 'rules of engagement' under which the Royal Navy would be authorised to sink her.

Thread/ Image
The carrier, a former Royal Navy Colossus class, was seen as one of the biggest threats to the task group.

The MOD analysis of her capabilities credited here with around 11-14 fixed wing jets (Skyhawk and Etendard) as well as Tracker recce aircraft. Image
The MOD analysis felt that the carrier group could pose a risk not just to the Amphibious Task Force on passage to the main Task Force, but also to UK units at Ascension Island, as well as ships and aircraft operating or sailing from there. Image
Read 15 tweets
Oct 26
This is the USS PALM BEACH, sister ship to the USS PUEBLO, a spy ship captured by North Korea. In 1967 the US Navy sought British permission to base her in the UK to carry out top secret intelligence missions against Russia.

A short PSL thread on Cold War spy ships! Image
She was built in 1944 as a US Army aircraft repair ship, seeing service in WW2. Post war she carried out survey work in the West Indies before being put in reserve in the 1950s.

In 1966 she was taken over by the US Navy and converted into an intelligence collector. Image
The BANER class AGI was designed to collect local intelligence off Soviet coastlines, particularly High Frequency signals. The BANNER and PUEBLO were used in the Pacific Ocean, while PALM BEACH was converted for use in the European theatre. Image
Read 23 tweets
Oct 21
In late 1961 the British Cabinet debated what, if any, military support the UK would provide to the Netherlands in the event of Indonesia attacking the colony of Dutch New Guinea.

Short thread on a forgotten military crisis... Image
After the independence of Indonesia in 1949, the Netherlands retained control of Western New Guinea as a colony, and began preparing it for independence. In Dec 1961 President Sukarno called for the seizure of the colony by military force.
The Dec 1961 British assessment was that Indonesia would launch an invasion attempt, but that it would take time. The challenge was that in 1959, Duncan Profumo had committed the UK to offering support to the Netherlands in the event of an attack... Image
Read 16 tweets
Oct 3
In the 1980s, the US Government wanted to purchase Royal Navy Polaris missiles to use them to test the effectiveness of the SDI missile defence system. This was seen as both an opportunity, and serious threat to UK nuclear security concerns.

Short thread on SDI & Chevaline... Image
For almost 30 years the Polaris SSBN force was the backbone of the UK's strategic nuclear arsenal. 4 submarines, carry 16 missiles with 3 warheads were available to deliver an overwhelming nuclear attack on any aggressor if required. Image
In the 1970s to meet the evolving ABM defences around Moscow, the missiles were upgraded to Chevaline - a miniature space rocket that deployed 2 warheads and decoys to overwhelm Soviet defences. Image
Read 15 tweets
Sep 23
In August 1983, Ministers were concerned that the Argentine military planned to carry out a surprise Exocet attack on a Royal Navy warship off the Falkland Islands. The RN assessed Seawolf only had a 35% chance of intercepting any inbound missile...

Thread on Exocet 1983. Image
In Aug 83, Minister Armed Forces sought advice from the Royal Navy about the risk of Argentine military forces carrying out a sneak attack using Exocet in certain domestic political circumstances. Image
The Minister felt Argentina would benefit from it politically, and with relatively low risks given the IMF bailout was secured, and the US 'is in need of all her Friends in Latin America' Image
Read 14 tweets

Did Thread Reader help you today?

Support us! We are indie developers!


This site is made by just two indie developers on a laptop doing marketing, support and development! Read more about the story.

Become a Premium Member ($3/month or $30/year) and get exclusive features!

Become Premium

Don't want to be a Premium member but still want to support us?

Make a small donation by buying us coffee ($5) or help with server cost ($10)

Donate via Paypal

Or Donate anonymously using crypto!

Ethereum

0xfe58350B80634f60Fa6Dc149a72b4DFbc17D341E copy

Bitcoin

3ATGMxNzCUFzxpMCHL5sWSt4DVtS8UqXpi copy

Thank you for your support!

Follow Us!

:(