Thread by @mk270

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop "completely different issue to what happens inside flats." /
"Leasehold charges for managing and maintaining blocks of flats and fleecehold charges for public open spaces [...]are two separate issues."

They're not separate issues. Have a look at the plans of that development

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop plan from a lease - shared garden circled in blue

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop plan from freehold transfer next door - same shared garden circled in blue

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop The leaseholders and freeholders both have to pay to maintain the same gardens, which the public could access but for which there's no public right of use.

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop And for the leaseholders: the gardens, the car park, the bin store and the internals of the block of flats are all shaded/treated the same, because they have the obligation to pay for this space and the right to use it.

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop You also say: ""Corridors and other communal areas inside flats are for the residents, not for the general public to use or hang around in."

But neither are the open spaces that house and flat owners are paying for

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop it's private land which the general public has no right to use.

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop It isn't a leasehold vs freehold issue - both freehold and leasehold properties may have a right to use shared estate facilities like gardens and car parks, that the general public has no right to access.

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop It isn't a house vs flats issue - there are leasehold houses, e.g., Shared Ownership houses.

If the owner staircases to 100% ownership and owns the freehold, he/she still has to pay towards the estate common parts

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop (but now it is an estate rentcharge rather than a leasehold service charge, yet the services and prices would remain the same.)

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop It isn't a "indoors" vs "outdoors" issue: outdoors areas can be built on, and indoors areas opened up. The shared garage is an indoors space, but isn't part of anyone's dwelling. Similarly the shared bin store.

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop It isn't an issue about whether the space is fenced off: fences and hedges can be knocked down or put up, and that can be done by the manager or by someone trying to gain unlawful access.

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop Shared common parts are often subject to statutory rights to buy / right of first refusal / right to manage. Are people going to be compensated for these rights by the council if it appropriates the land?

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop When you're trying to buy the common car park, you have to compensate its owner for the potential development value of, say, building residential property *above* that car park (many such cases, including a friend of mine who randomly owns a car park).

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop Are councils seriously going to be paying for empty airspace above car parks and shared gardens and shared open spaces? Out of what funds?

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop In principle, a public open space could be created by two houses subdividing their gardens off to make a shared garden they must both pay to maintain.

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop Should the council be burdened with having to maintain such a garden? Should it make a difference whether such a shared garden is physically accessible to the public?

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop Where it's *roads* rather than green space that's under consideration, there's already a forced adoption law that can be triggered by residents

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop But the Highways Act 1980 has safeguards to protect against ratepayers being forced to repair substandard roads. There's no workable mechanism for substandard existing estates.

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop To me it seems like the people who came up with "adopt the lot" simply ignored the developments where this would be extremely unfair and/or impractical.

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop And the case seems to be entirely reactionary (turn back the clock to when councils adopted infrastructure), and advanced by conflating different meanings of the the word "public".

@Magicflapjack @Trumpian_Horse @HomesEngland @GoAndrCoop @threadreaderapp unroll