So suddenly Ibn Ishaq’s reports about the “scroll of luqman” have become valuable. It seems that the stories which support my opponent’s argument don’t need chains of transmission, nor does it matter if they were written later — but the paganism of the Arabs in the Sīrah..
and the Qur’an’s words about it are all just dreams that don’t reflect reality, Alright then, should one just keep his eyes closed? They cast doubt on the strong chains of transmission in Sahih al-Bukhari and even mutawatir reports , yet they pick lies here and there,
blow them out of proportion, and give them weight by speaking in a language that only appears academic to the fool. They have no standard other than whatever they desire to obtain—yet they will never attain it, not until the heavens and the earth vanish.
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@Oneubon4563 @euedhdb72366 @dmontetheno1 @KerrDepression The command to bring in every pair of animals does not come until after the flood has already begun and one of its signs has appeared—namely, the gushing forth of the oven (whatever its meaning). This would not leave enough time to carry out such a process.
@Oneubon4563 @euedhdb72366 @dmontetheno1 @KerrDepression The use of the verb يسلك (to insert, to make enter)—as in ‘اسلك يدك في جيبك’ (with Moses)—and its connection with bringing in his family, indicates that the act of bringing them in was done quickly and smoothly.
@Oneubon4563 @euedhdb72366 @dmontetheno1 @KerrDepression Moreover, the use of the word ‘all’ ' كلٍ' without explicitly mentioning animals, suggests that what is meant here are the livestock that were already with him in his household..
@euedhdb72366 @dmontetheno1 @Oneubon4563 @KerrDepression In fact, what @dmontetheno1 says and what we say reflects the disagreement among the commentators regarding the interpretation of this verse, and each side has developed arguments supporting their own view.
@euedhdb72366 @dmontetheno1 @Oneubon4563 @KerrDepression The first group, which represents the majority of exegetes, believes that these Arabian idols somehow trace back to the time of Noah, even though they differ on how that happened . For this reason, we developed arguments that provide different possible scenarios supporting this.
@euedhdb72366 @dmontetheno1 @Oneubon4563 @KerrDepression The second group, which is the minority—and this opinion was transmitted by al-Māwardī and al-Qurṭubī from a set of now-unknown exegetes, and it is possible that Abū ʿUbayd (d. 209 AH) himself held this view—believes that these idols belonged exclusively to the Arabs,..
Noah and the Idols of His People (Similar Examples from Ancient Civilizations)
The worship of Horus dates back to the late prehistoric period, while the worship of Ra & Osiris goes back to the 26th century BCE —about 1 thousand years before the supposed time of Abraham.
The worship of these deities continued in Egypt, despite the multiple invasions and vast cultural changes, up until the Roman Egyptian era, the worship of Ra and Osiris persisted until the rise of Christianity in the Roman Empire.
In China, some scholars see that the worship of emperors or the Five Deities 五帝 or 五神, in a simpler form, dates back to the Neolithic era and still persists today in various forms.
It is noteworthy that in the apocryphal Ascension of Isaiah (2nd century CE), the Holy Spirit is described as an angel and called “the Angel of the Holy Spirit.” He appears alongside Michael and is referred to as the same “Angel of the Lord” who reassured Joseph in Matthew 1:20.
This led the translator into English to identify him with Gabriel.
So it isn’t surprising that the Qur’an presents the Holy Spirit as an angel, and even identifies him as Gabriel, while at the same time using the term “spirit” to mean divine support, prophetic revelation,
the human soul, and spiritual life “guidance”. Perhaps the Holy Spirit with which Jesus was strengthened is likely one of the first three of these meanings.
First:
There is no such thing as a “traditional” method of criticism versus a “historical” method of criticism. The orientalist titles must be corrected first.
There is the Islamic historical method of criticism,
and there is the Western historical method of criticism.
Second:
A Muslim’s belief—regardless of sect—in the preservation of the Prophet’s teachings (which has its own evidence) has nothing to do with the actual process and steps of hadith criticism in terms of isnād (chain of transmission) and matn (text).
Third:
There is no respected Muslim hadith scholar who claims that the hadiths classified as “authentic” definitively go back to the Prophet. The majority of Muslim hadith scholars know that 99% of hadiths do not trace back to the Prophet with certainty.
Despite my old disagreement and opposition to Chonkshonk, this post is commendable and represents a genuine step toward bridging perspectives—something I have always advocated for..
Therefore, I would like to contribute a few points that can enrich and support what he presents in this post, while also clarifying the Muslim point of view..
First: It is sometimes difficult to distinguish whether a particular parallel—especially in literary, expressive, or cosmological matters—is the result of influence from one cultural environment on another, or merely a cultural convergence due to..