Thread by @tribunaltweets

Day 2 morning 2 session of the employment tribunal of Maria Kelly v Leonardo UK (L).

The first session can be found here

The sound is a little challenging, but court plans to resume at 12:20.

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1973290885690565085

We resume.
NC - page 47 tell us about the route from new desk to the toilets.
MK - entrance to all 3 toilets, are on N side of block, access, M and F. I would go N then E to the main block, not aware of men using. Or if need privacy NE of ladies is a double door.
J - clarifies

MK - other door into the cafe, follow wall line round, to left of cupboard when secret loo is.
NC - talked about it being hard to talk about at work, is L neutral on this?
MK - think the company does take a stance, Pride network was the first network. Gender network too, see

that as a stance. Others and I felt swamped by emails and communications. Others spoke to me about it feeling oppressive when Pride network started, maybe just because it was first. If someone wants to tell me about their sexuality that's fine, but no impact,

MK - but there were leaflets talking about sexuality in relation to gender, L put out a glossary, pre-Maya, think it was lifted from Stonewall. Was meant to be about all DEI, but pregnancy wasn't mentioned, lots on GI, redefined sexuality in terms of gender

NC - think there's a page.
MK - from memory this appeared a month or two after a div and equity lead joined. I noticed. This is why I say they had a stance, over this glossary.
NC - what is troubling?
MK - the gay mena nd lesbian women I know say it is on sex, men attracted to

MK - men. it says homosexual is a more medical term and orientation is on gender. Includes pansexual and queer, but doesn' tmention pregnancy or maternity, swaps out sex for gender - huge red flag, misquoting the equality act. 80% is about identity, little on 8 PC's

MK - that's what I mean by company taking a stance. I asked anonymously for it to be taken down via a colleague on JCC, asked her to contact and say not about the law, focussing on ID, what about women, maternity, passing comments on race and aspergers, we are

MK - an engineering company, neurodiversity. It was taken down quite quickly.
NC - explain changes. Page
MK - I was drawn to glossary, new EDI lead, wasn't there long, I looked at the website saw this was appalled. This is an exchange colleague was on JCC, I wasn't

MK - this is me saying to her the glossary is misquoting the law, PC's wrong, can't acknowldge sexism without acknowledging sex, imp to me.. I listed the PC's, glossary says sex is assigned. Talks about phobia only in relation to gender, not race etc. Intersex is medical

MK - i was appalled a company I've worked for for so long took an ideological stance and it will impact me and others. Quite a senior member of staff said she would take it down, might have been a new EDI lead, or acknowleding it was wrong, don't know

MK - I could foresee a problem. Needed sex and sexuality defined correctly.
NC - explain exchange.
MK - keen to define as a gender network, not a women's network. Looked at the website, to see if relevant to me, didn't engage. Then I heard talk of mixed sex toilets

MK - signed up for newsletter from equalise (gender group) an A4 sheet, sharing stories on media, there was a news article on women with autism included. More autism in engineers, good for focus, planning, thinking through problems. sweeping statement of 1 in 10 with autism

MK - are women. But the article here, said lots more women on autism spectrum, but women conditioned to mask. Important story, women not getting diagnosis or support. 2 or 3 paras on women masking, not getting diagnosed. I wrote to chair of equalise to compliment

on article but the language was relevant, they were talking about cis women, think non-binary too. Thought it confusing and unhelpful, it was specifically about women and autism. Language made it less clear and relevant, others were confused about it. Could have been important

MK - and I'm not a cis woman, I'm a woman, it alienates me. It's exclusionary. Exchanged emails, thanked for feedback, but told it was imp to have that language. Said divisive, but we use cis for clarity and inclusivity, we are a gender balance group not a women's group

MK - appalled. Outed myself in that exchange, might have been put on naughty list. Had to remove myself from equalise. I'm an atheist, same on this.
NC - 15ht Ap JCC meeting descibe that meeting
MK - i had been trying to discuss whether toilet policy existed, been a year of

mk - continued requests, someone said that yes there was a policy or practice that anyone who ID'd as F could use women's loo. Not written down, this was confirmation. I raised at JCC as nobody else knew. Put myself on line at meeting, union htere. I had asked UNITE to support

MK - me, I checked their policies, but they let anyone use loo's based on gender. Assumed Unite reps wouldn't support me, they tried to get me to join, I refused saying they wouldn't help me on this. Asked for them to document the policy at the meeting, so that everyone knew

MK - 3 women, maybe 6 men. Saw everyone sit back like it was going to kick off. I was able to speak freely, no challenge, talked asked qu. went into details on why F need spaces. maybe made the men uncomfortable, one up from me was VP Ops. Hate crime act had just come in

MK - in scotland. he said that might be a hate crime, might have been a joke, but i was uncomfortable he was a VP. I wanted it written down, rep said would take to Union, one of other VP's was on her laptop, think she was communicating with EDI lead as had a message at my desk

MK when I got back after meeting.
NC - explain why you raised it again.
MK - April meeting I said I had confirmation of policy, in those 2 months Rachel Buxton (?) EDI lead confirmed yes it was the policy. I made it clear it had taken ages to get this, shouldn't have to do this

NC - do the changes made solve?
MK - no. there have been diff phases since I started grievance. Has been a comm to some sites that there would be changes, but nothing to staff, they still don' tknow its on gender. The Secret loo had the F taken off and replaced with WC

MK - the lock on the door Oct24 to the secret loo. A sign went up saying to lock the external door, which had 2 loo cubicles in so if in use, other loo is unusable. Think there are now 10 single occupancy loos on a site of 2500 people who might need them and I'm locking 2 away

MK - standard F block is mixed sex. 10 loos for 200 women isn't OK
J - used by everyone? in terms of those using does sex matter? Number of men... (talking with ST). statement of facts changes depending on phase of changes.
ST - can discuss and find out
J - woud help

J - what did you understand numbers to be
MK - there's a spreadsheet that broke down numbers thtere in bundle.
J - you said number using the toilets...
MK - staff don't know their loos are mixed.
J - is it 10 or 200 using hte toilets.
MK - they don't know their toilets are mixed

MK - more would use if they knew
J - what % on site are women?
MK - about 20%
NC - any changes since Jan this year.
MK - Jan 25 sign went up to lock outer door. Last week, hard to explain. Have to go through outer door to get to cupboard and loos. The sign and lock are now on

MK - inner door. The toilet badge has been moved, the poster has moved. I expected that to be done a year before
NC - does that satisfy you
MK - no.
NC - lunch?
J - more than half an hour?
NC - yes, content with 30-45 mins
ST - tight on time.
J - breaking lunch resuming at 14:07

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