Thread by @tribunaltweets

We will shortly be live tweeting day 1 of evidence from the hearing of Ms B Hutchison & others v County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust being held at Newcastle Employment Tribunal.

A group of nurses from Darlington Memorial Hospital, are bringing this ET against their employers alleging sexual harassment and sex discrimination.

It concerns the Trust’s policy of allowing a male colleague, identifying as a woman named Rose Henderson, to use the female changing room.

The nurses argue that sharing the changing facilities with Henderson has caused them distress. One nurse, a survivor of sexual abuse, reported experiencing panic attacks.

After raising concerns with hospital management, they were informed they needed to be “re-educated” to be more 'inclusive' and offered an office space to change in instead of the female changing room.

Our full coverage can be found at tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/eight-nurses…

We report what we hear in good faith but do not provide a verbatim record of proceedings.

Abbreviations:
C/Ns - Claimants - the Darlington nurses
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for Claimants
MP - Michael Phillips, solicitor for claimants

PS - Pavel Stroilov, C’s solicitor, preliminary hearing
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
J/REJ - Regional Employment Judge Robertson

EJ - Employment Judge
ET - Employment Tribunal
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
DMH/H/Hospital - Darlington Memorial Hospital
SH - sexual harassment
SD - sex discrim
SA - sexual abuse
PA - panic attack
HM - hospital management
TG - transgender
CR/CF - changing room or facilities

We anticipate a 10am start today although delays to proceedings are not unusual.

We are still waiting in the remote access waiting room.

The cause of the delay is unknown but we'll update you as soon as we have any more information.

And we're in.. the sound is very echoey with lots of beeps (possibly from a train?) There currently don't appear to be any observers in the hearing room - just the legal teams.

The additional sounds appear to have gone now.

Apparently the court is in a private session and we should not have visuals of the court. Some people have been returned to the waiting room.
It does not appear as though the hearing is in session though.

We have just been removed back to the waiting room.

We remain in the remote waiting room and apologise for the continuing delay.
We have no further information at this stage.

We've just heard that it's very likely to be a 1.30pm start now.

J discussing the room temperature and the media presence. Someone from Tribunal Tweets here and mentioned the practices and not being a media organisation.
TT Are you seeking permission?
XX: Yes, we were given the link..
J we grant you permission. This doesnt apply to established

media. Anyone else would need to stand up and talk.
SC discussing link to solicitor
J Yes, can be emailed out
SC Thank you very much
J I may have to repeat these statements re observers. We cant see or hear you to not be distracted. I made an order on conditions of access

J This must be adhered to [describes them]
We have no application from members of the public to live tweet so there should be not tweeting by the public. Just the press and TT can tweet. Are there any other matters?
NF Looking at WS following ruling I see the form RH and want

NF to know re consistency when anonimity was requested.
J I shld have checked that no changes to list of issues?
SC Agree is no time limit to the list
NF Wld it be sensible if we explained the convention re pronouns etc in the ruling? For yr consideration and not a submission

J We'll refer to Rose as Rose and ?
SC We're just waiting for the email
J I'm not going to delay further
SC I'm not asking you to
J Have you received it Moss Gilbert? [No]
J We're hearing from Mrs Danson?
Yes [swears in]

J Please take a seat. We'll try to take the stress from this sitn as much as possible. Plse familiarise yrself with what you have. Be aware the cups are v flimsy. Y'll be asked Qs by both counsel but try to reply to us

NF People need to speak up as hard to hear at the back
J We'll all do our best
NF Please turn to p30 of the bundle KD. Is that yr signature/contents true?
KD Yes
NF Turn to p307. A plan of the CR. A SS in DSU that u refer to?
Yes

NF Names on the plan. Is Karen you?
Yes
NF Where yr locker is?
Yes
NF Other names on the plan rep other ppl?
Yes
NF Rose is marked on the R? Where locker is or was?
Yes

NF Looking at supplementary bundle, tab 88, another statement w yr name and yr signature dated 18.1.25. Is this yr statement re the anonymity order?
KD Yes
NF Is it true and recently read?
Yes
NF You ref in p 34 of your WS, to autographs ? of Rose on Facebook.

[possibly photographs?]
NF Also photos on these pages. You're referring to these?
KD Yes
NF On p6-7. Rose is on the R?
Yes
NF On the far L on p7?
Yes
NF Back to p149, if Rose central in jeans and black t shirt?
Yes
NF U describe an incident in 2023, how does Rose most appear re these photos?

KD [missed sound v low]
NF In trial bundle 2 [J explaining the bundles]
NF Your statement para 18 talks about absence of records for wellbeing. Is that a WA betwen u and Sharon Trevaller?
Yes
NF That's u on top in white
Yes
NF U have a record re wellbeing convos

NF Towards the end of your exchange, she said there's nothing else in yr file is it a ref to Clare?
Yes
NF What a u describing re yr breakdown in Seal?
KD One room is to discuss our wellbeing at work. After the CR sitn was having lots of flashbacks

KD I broke down and was given tissues and a cup of tea.
NF go to p309 in witness bundle, a transcript of 20 May 24 mtg where yr name appears.
Yes
NF On p314..
Yes
NF P320, there's an entry for u as well. And yr entry?
Yes
NF Are these correct
Yes
NF ANd other speakers corrct?
Yes

NF These are Sept 24 incident. Rose asking u repeatedly "are u getting changed yet?"
KD I was thinking to myself what's it to you?
NF On p332, you agree?
KD Yes
NF Thank you. we're nearly there
NF U sent a statement to the resolution person?

NF At the top you refer to the statement you prepared w your solicitors. Look at bundle 3, p313. Title is self explanatory - yr answers to the Qs during the resolution proceedure.
KD Yes
NF Finally, in para 32 of yr statement, u speak of a poster on the CR door re inclusive CR

NF Looking at the plan. where did u see the poster. Are there 2 doors into CR?
Yes
NF Indicate where u saw the poster.
KD it was on the outside of the main door b4 u entered. And another on the inside of the internal door [points them out]

KD U saw on the outside going in.
J For the public online, y'll be aware that no-one must record and no permission given. And no live tweeting unless given permission.
SC Good pm. Yr employed as a staff nurse since 2019?
Yes
SC Yr WS, in para 4 on p31

SC U say u saw RH in the surgical areas in 2023
Yes
SC Is an operating dept technician
Yes
SC Roses's employment aslso since 2019?
KD I only saw from 2023
SC When did u start using the F CR?
"023
SC Rose will also say from 2019
KD I cant say. Different secondments and working patterns

SC U werent aware of RH prior to Aug 2023, or heard anything?
Correct
SC The main event in 2023. U tell us u had to walk past RHs locker. When were u aware of Rose having a locker?
KD Had seen leaving once before but hadnt thought about it. But then saw R's locker.

SC U had to walk past RH,
Yes
SC Wearing?
Tight black pants w holes in them. he was getting changed in CR wearing nothing but boxers. It was the end of day so presume was changing - was half dressed I'd say
SC The allegation is Rose asked you if getting changed 3 times

SC Rose will say Rose didnt know u and had no reason to ask you
KD I'm not mistaken at all
SC Towrds end of shift
Yes
SC Normally busy in CR?
It coincided at end of shift being together
SC U say the main incident but havent mentioned others?
KD The canteen incident but

KD no others in the CR
SC I say he didnt say these
KD It absolutely did. It brought back the trauma of a chold, why wld I do this to myself?
SC I'm not denying yr childhood trauma. cld seeing Rh be enough of a trigger?
KD It was the smirk and the exact words I heard by my father

SC RH absolutely denies this. Will look at other issues
J Wld it be helpful for KD to read these?
SC bundle 1 on p117, I will ask about the harassment claims. Conduct in CR. Spending longer in the CR than necess on many occasions in boxers or fully dressed

KD I saw RH once but others many times
SC Longer times than necessary?
KD That's someone else
SC So yr saying re the one occas w tight boxers
KD Yes, asking when I was going to get changed
SC Walking around in boxers and sometimes dressed
KD This is what others have said

SC In a CR, I have to pick up scrubs?
KD If work in theatre
SC Have to walk to my locker, isnt e'one walking around to some extent
KD I'd expect fully dressed
SC The 4th is Rose initiating convo w you?
Yes
SC That's not a problem to talk?
KD I see as harassment w what RH said

SC Looking at breast area a lot
KD I didnt see that as was only w him once and I was alone w him
SC You say you told BH about this 5-6 weeks later [Beth Hutchison] U say another colleague, nurse X, had also complained re RH. I dont want to name nurse X

as she's worried to lose her job or visa
KD We;ve had threats about our jobs. The girls have received threats. They havent received trust initiated disc actions though
SC I've heard sim concerns by a few others re RH. How many?
KD More than 10
SC But u say u cant recall them?

KD Leanne, nurse XY
SC U say u cant recall them all
KD They're all the names I remember from 2 yrs ago. But there were lots.
SC U say u strongly felt RH shldnt be in the CR and watching W change
Yes
SC U are free to hold that belief. This narrative about RH behav is made up

KD No. why wld I make it up
SC [describes length of time worked together]
KD 26 of us signed the letter of concern
SC We know concerns raised then but nothing b4
KD Ppl may have been too scared to come 4wd
SC But no-one complained before
KD I cant say why
SC Were u at the recorded Feb mtg?

KD I wasnt but heard about it afterwards
SC [new bundle] This letter signed by 26 of you on26 March to Dir of workforce. Were u one of the ppl who'd had advice from CLC?
KD I cant remember when in time I got the advice. We got help to make the letter easier to read

SC It refers to harassment and T policies. And appoints Clare Gregory as lead complainant
Yes she was our ward manager
SC [reads re RH has stopped taking hormones and is trying to inseminates RHs partner] who gave u this info?
KD It was common knowledge

KD I heard it and it was confirmed by another
SC Who told you?
KD Theatre staff told me. I cant name them.
SC On p1016, When RH was interviewed as part of the Ix RH said [reads re stopping transitioning and I'm not trying for a child and have never said I've stopped transitioning]

SC U have no knowledge of this
Correct
SC Yet yr prepared to sign a letter w personal info w/out knowing its true
KD I signed about my CR incident
SC Y've just said u dont know if this info was true. So what's in the press is incorrect
KD I took what ppl said as fact. Lots of ppl told me

SC Did anyone check if info correct w RH?
No
SC In mtg of 20 May 24, with Tracy Atkinson and Mr Moore. U say after waiting for 2 months and nothing done we decided to start legal action. But this letter of 26 was on forwarded on ? date. So the following month

Sc Here was a mtg the following month
KD We;d raised concerns in Sept so had been 6 months. Raised w matrons.
SC Lisa Lucky was secretly recording the meeting
KD She asked for permission from those in the kitchen for reflection. we didnt think it wld be needed for proceddings

KD But not everyone knew it was being recorded and I didnt know u cldnt do that
SC Looking at the transcript, starting p309, see the various comments and at the end of the mtg that lasted 44 mins. Tracy Atkinson says [reads re safety in accom

and will speak to RH and management and looking at estate as we're open to solutions.
KD I didnt think she'd do these things. I thought she hadnt read the letter or wasnt addressing our concerns re RH
SC But wasnt the mtg about yr concerns?
Yes. There was no urgency which is why we took it further. we waited a few weeks

SC U only waited 8 days before putting in the claim and also talked to the Mail
KD Yes. I wasn't public back then so not in the article.
SC TA said she'd look at alternatives. 2 emails from TA. U wldnt have seen at the time. Is 3 days later to Clare Gregory

SC She'd made contact w estates so she was following up on the issues?
KD It says that, yes, but she may not have been
SC She'll also say she shared this info with the DSU team. Is now a good time to have a 10 min break?
J describes not discussing evidence and leaving the room.

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