Thread by @tribunaltweets

We will shortly be live tweeting from day 5 of evidence from the hearing of Ms B Hutchison & others v County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust being held at Newcastle Employment Tribunal.

A group of nurses from Darlington Memorial Hospital, are bringing this ET against their employers alleging sexual harassment and sex discrimination.

It concerns the Trust’s policy of allowing a male colleague, identifying as a woman named Rose Henderson, to use the female changing room.

The nurses argue that sharing the changing facilities with Henderson has caused them distress. One nurse, a survivor of sexual abuse, reported experiencing panic attacks.
After raising concerns with hospital management, they were informed they needed to be “re-educated” to be more 'inclusive' and offered an office space to change in instead of the female changing room.

Our full coverage can be found at


We report what we hear in good faith but do not provide a verbatim record of proceedings.tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/eight-nurses…

Abbreviations:
C/Ns - Claimants - the Darlington nurses
NF - Niazi Fetto KC, barrister for Claimants
MP - Michael Phillips, solicitor for claimants
PS - Pavel Stroilov, C’s solicitor, preliminary hearing
R/T/Trust - Respondent, County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust

SC - Simon Cheetham, KC, barrister for respondents
J/REJ - Regional Employment Judge Robertson
EJ - Employment Judge
ET - Employment Tribunal
RH - Rose Henderson, trans identifying nurse
DMH/H/Hospital - Darlington Memorial Hospital

J It's Jane Shields next. We've received amended partic of claims. Permission granted.
SC We're a day ahead but wil keep u informed
NF We have Prof Phoenix able to come on the 7th but she has a flight booked for the 10th. We may slow down as we may not be able to fit her in

NF I've put tog a bundle of guidance which is to help the cross examination
SC I have received it but wonder ??
J It depends on how u put things to the witneses
J Play it by ear? Let's proceed with JS

J [affirms JS] Take a seat. Please adjust the camera. [takes JS to her WS and describes the various bundles]
NF Go to your WS. Is this yours?
JS Yes
NF You want to make a couple of corrections. You first met Rose in 2019. And 2021 should be 2020 in para 5, and 3 yrs in para 8

NF With those corrections are these true?
JS Yes
NF On p387, y'll find a plan of the CR. Can you point to where yr locker was? [points]
J Next to Tracy?
JS 6 lockers to the right of hers
NF On p116, [reads re mtg RH in the CR] How often did u come across Rose?

JS Cld be 3-4 days over a 7 day period
NF In the following para, u say u knew he was trying to father a child. How did u know?
JS We'd had that convo w Rose
NF Who?
JS lists multiple names and I asked Rose
SC This convo, when did it take place?
JS During a night shift

JS [searching WS for date] Prob his second year as a student
SC 2020?
Yes
SC Names
JS Pam Tweedy, 2 scrub staff
SC who did u tell?
JS No-one partic except my family. I spoke to Pam
SC Any other colleagues outside the actual convo?
JS No

SC Thank you
J Thank you SC. Can I check with my colleagues if we have any Qs for you. We'll just have a very short break to discuss with them [reminds re oath]. Let's have 10 minutes.

We return

J Mr Brain wants to know about u not telling others re the convo w Rose. You mentioned Pam and Lesley. Do u know if they spoke to others?
JS Not that I'm aware of, no
J Yr retired
JS No I work for another trust
J Yr an anaesthetic nurse?
Yes

J Did u know the other Cs
JS I knew Tracey from theatres, and knew others to say hello to in a professional working r'ship
J It's hard to remember times. U recall the convo towards end of 2020 but when were u first asked to recollect it
JS I remember in 2020 by an anaestheist

J When did u first tell others about recollecting this convo?
JS I've never been asked it before this setting. Prob March 2025. I was asked if I could remember anything about this case.
J How?
JS BH asked me if I had any memory. When I heard if any concerns before leaving the trust

J Why ask you?
JS As they were bringing the claim. I'd always supported them. We were v aware of disparity in the staff. Ppl didnt feel comfy in the CR. We discussed in breaks. And w my family.
J Were BH etc present then?
JS No as in a separate unit and stayed in the dept at lunch

J NF, do u have any Qs?
NF Yes, I do. In the evidence of BH's WS in p179 of supplemental bundle. The context is BH said u knew each other from work and were SM friends. She messaged you re yr support not being unnoticed.

JS She'd looked after my father. I'd reposted something she'd shared and she messaged to say the support hadnt been unnoticed and I said I was pleased something was happening. And sending support as she'd also lost her g'father.

NF [reads]
JS Actually it was her grandfather.
NF [reads re whole situation being surreal]
JS Absolutely
J Is that the date of the exchange? 25 June 2024? Is that correct?
JS Yes. I'd left the trust then but aware he was still using the F CR

J Can I clarify. Page 179-80 convo re BH's g'dad. Looks like is in 2022. Then a big gap until 2024.
JS Yes, that's correct.
NF Nothing further.
J U can take a seat at the back or leave
J Now we have Kirsten Coutts? [takes affirmation]

J Find the WS bundle and NF will introduce yr evidence.
NF [Confirms accurate and true]. Look in bundle 3, vol 1. Keep that open w yr WS. In para 15 u say yr supportive of the nurses and their concerns re RH and CR. Is that the letter?
Yes

NF U received an email in 2024 about a resolution procedure. U see the letter attached
KS Yes
NF You refer to a Grievance notice. Find bundle 2 now. p619, y'l see a letter to JP.
KS Mine is identical
NF The form Rose filled in w that letter
KS Yes

NF In yr WS, u refer to Sept 24 email from Rose Williams. And this letter
KS Yes
NF Is p272 yr reply?
Yes
NF In para 33, sorry the email u refer to in para 36.
KS Yes
NF In para 33 of yr WS, u received emails from Sue Williams. Go to p278

NF Is there an email re chasing minutes. Are these the minutes u were asked to approve?
KS Yes
NF On p285, are the minutes. did u sihn these off?
KS No, I never signed off any minutes
NF On p290, does this correspond?
KS Yes

SC Miss or Mrs?
KS Miss
SC U work in ward 11 on the same floor. U didnt know or use the same CR as RH
Yes
SC U signed the letter as u broadly agreed
Yes
SC But matters not in yr personal knowledge
No
SC U refer in para 30 of yr WS, about Sue Williams [reads re points not in the minutes]

KS Yes
SC To be clear, u write to SW but Q I asked at the outset is missing. Although main body of convo correct
KS In hindsight I shld have said to not mention Rose. I beleived was to be an acceptable resolution to the CR sitn

SC I have no further Qs
J Thank you SC. Just bear w us a moment. We dont have any Qs. Do u have any re-exam?
NF No
J We're doing well for time and have finished C's witnesses. Now the R's witnesses. Apart from JPH, who is no-ones. We have Mr Thacker next

SC There is one thing I'd like u to look at.
J What are u proposing and how long do u need?
SC Now is fine. Are u referring to the index to see the nature of the documents? Seeing that it's permissable to cross witnesses on evidence used but much cross hasnt happend

SC How will they Q re s22 of the EA2010. This arrived at 5.30 and not sure which witnesses this will be used with. They need to be able to prepare what to say. Just being told to be used w their WS.

SC I must flag that despite what the media and politicians and childrens authors say this case is not about the SC judgment. Am concerned are trying to braoden beyond RH behaviour and how the trust responded. How will this be used by the court?

NF We have witnesses on the R side who refer to guidance as ref to in the bundle. Also refs to content and correspondence that;s referred to by Rs witnesses. So items in the bundles and the docs. I'm aware of what I can aske witnesses or discuss my submissions w witnesses

NF But some had a job of dealing w these issues. But I wont debate the law with witnesses but will ask how they got to conclusions they did
J [clarified re how counsel can question witnesses] I can understand SCs concenrs w this arriving the night before but yr not going there?

NF I'm not
J Where in WS are u concerned?
SC For example, WS p122
NF That's referred to in p67
J [can't hear] U want to clarify w Mr Thacker what he's referring to?
NF Yes, if we get that far
Sc If it's just labelling I cant object
J That seems reasonable

SC It's unhelpful getting so late. As witnesses cant read before. These were printed out some months ago.
J Seems instinctively true from t he witnesses pov. All far in cross exam but.. Helpful to SC to know which bits y'll use
NF To explain, they've been relevant and I put tog over the weekend

NF and printing diff in Newcastel. I've collated them over time
J Shall we have another break and you let SC know which doc y'll use w Mr Thacker
SC I'm happy w that and then we'll see where we get. It'd be useful to know which witnesses will use this
NF 15 mins?

J Shall we say we'll check with you at half 11 and see if you're ready?

BREAK

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