Thread by @tribunaltweets

We’ll shortly be rejoining the second part of the morning session. Ms B Hutchinson and others v County Durham and Darlington Nurses NHS Foundation Trust.

NF - I’m advising you h& s regulations changing facilities? Your understanding they required single sex for men and women. Did you make Ms Newton aware?
AT - no

AT - Checking what the regulations meant in practice and the intention was to gather and discuss further.
NF - you understood this regulation was binding?
AT - yes

NF - wasn’t this directly relevant?
AT - not part of her briefing note for the investigation.
NF - TITWP policy made provision for people of one sex to make use of other facilities was under review. Was this relevant?

AT - to be honest it didn’t really cross my mind.
NF - you’ve interpreted the regulations.
AT - there’s an assumption here that everything I did was to cause harassment. That was never my intention.

NF - email from Richard Scothern (sp? chairman of trust) forwarding an email from Stephen Twist (a governor) July 2022. Please read what Mr Twist says

NF - what meeting Twist refers to?
AT - council of governors. Possibly at these if any workforce issues. Not attending all.
NF - Mr Southern mentions a probability this issue may impact on H & S and risk assessment. You would have seen a governor was raising the question of a risk assessment re application of trust policy.

NF - an issue specifically raised of H & S. Did you commission a report or review ?
AT - no

NF - letter from Ms Dodsworth references ongoing legal dispute and provide single sex CR without delay. The current arrangements outweigh national guidance. Issue raised unless single lockable rooms then not compliant.

AT - RCN interpretation of the guidance yes. Would follow up after the RCN congress. That didn’t happen because of sharing of this letter with the media. Dodsworth said can I share this with Bethany I said yes.

Then I learned the RCN had shared the letter with Bethany. I understand Ms Dodsworth was not happy .
NF - so that conversation didn’t happen and nothing else did.

NF - Rose moved out of the changing room later in 2025 were you involved in that decision?
AT - no
NF - you were contacted Gill Hunt of NHS England then met with Deputy Director of Nursing.
AT - yes a teams call related to vast amount of media attention. When the trust was named and NHS England asked what was being done re the concerns being made.

NF - a Mr Purdue came to visit the trust.
AT - He did a tour of Durham and Darlington hospital and I gather there was contact with the nurses.
NF - page 28 8 July 2024 to a range of non -ex directors - refers to last meeting.
AT - I wasn’t involved was on leave.

NF - read p 28/29. Some questions there. Operational and legal. Qs from Mr Crossland ‘were nursing staff consulted in advance’ and ‘did nursing staff raise matters of safety’ and ‘were these addressed’?

AT - I don’t know if the meeting was minuted. I’m not sure if theirs was a formal meeting.
NF - it was agreed after this you would have regular meetings with Mr Crossland to keep him updated.
AT - yes

NF - you had a few meetings were they minuted?
AT - no
J - did the investigation come up?
AT yes . I think Morgan Smith sent me an email
NF - there was a meeting on 17 July , Crossland , mr (inaudible) and you.

NF - this has attachment the bottom of the email chain - from Nr Twist. You received this email . COG ‘I would suggest Andrew deals with these ‘ . Who sent this email?
AT - I think it’s Steve Crossland.
NF - ‘H & S raised by me ‘. You say TITWP policy has its own impact included. But isn’t this about a H & S assessment?

NF - you don’t seem to have responded to that at all.
AT - no
NF - do you accept that something went very wrong with how the trust addressed the concerns ?

AT - I don’t accept that , the trust was trying to deal with
NF - you complained about the claimants eg media presence. But their complaint was not grappled with in any material way until April /May 2025 was it?

NF - and even after that the policy was briefly taken down but not addressed.
AT - as far as I was concerned , the trust had a policy for someone with a GI. After SC ruling the policy was withdrawn. There is no guidance however for trusts at this time. Guidance in draft but hasn’t yet been published and we are waiting for guidance.

J - do you know if there was a trust in the country that had the guidance? Share info re policies ?
AT - yes eg a regional meeting of HR directors.
J - natural isn’t it. Someone is going to ask ‘where do I start’ . Is there another trust that has a policy different to yours?
Web of contacts but the policy is made by the trust ?

AT - yes and nationally a framework for policies in general.
NF - were you aware of EHRC guidance?
AT - yes and we took action in withdrawing our guidance.
NF - was EHRC taken into account?
AT - yes re TITWP policy.
J - Mr Cheetham?

SC - clearing up - letters re involvement in press were sent please read. Ms Bradbury’s name is there.
And Ms Gregory is spokesperson - p 562 bundle 1. When you’re referring to comms with Ms G is that what you have in mind?
AT - yes.

J - something to be cleared up Mr C. Break for lunch now , resume at 2pm .

@threadreaderapp unroll