Thread by @ChrisO_wiki

1/ Recently-announced Russian plans for a giant 500-ton unmanned surface vessel (USV) are being greeted with scepticism, confusion and ridicule by Russian warbloggers. They say that the Navy is wasting money on grandiose schemes while failing to fix its current problems. ⬇️

2/ The Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Aleksandr Moiseyev, announced the plans on Sunday to mark the occasion of the Russian Navy's 330th anniversary. The vessel will be more than three times the size of the existing Grachonok-class patrol boat.

3/ In an interview, he said that the vessel was already under construction and would be used to search for submarines and other objects.

'Rybar' expresses polite scepticism about the concept:

"We need naval drones, but we shouldn't repeat past mistakes.

4/ "The Navy has finally realized that unmanned systems are essential. From the words of Commander-in-Chief Alexander Moiseyev, it's clear that the Navy is creating units of unmanned systems. However, in the same interview, he also mentioned some more contradictory points.

5/ "For example, he spoke about plans to create an unmanned ship with a displacement of 500 tons for searching for submarines. This refers to a fairly large ship, roughly the same size as the Soviet MRK Project 1234...

6/ "However, this is only the next stage in the evolution of unmanned systems, and we should only move to it after mastering the previous stages. Moreover, large unmanned vessels in no way negate the need for smaller ones; on the contrary, they will operate in conjunction.

7/ "Furthermore, it will not be possible to produce MRK-sized unmanned systems in the hundreds per year due to limitations in the production of suitable engines, air defence modules, and other components, including the hulls.

8/ "They will not be able to become the basis of the unmanned component at this stage.

❗️Therefore, we need to start by building "conventional" unmanned systems, of which the domestic Navy currently has far too few.

9/ "Without them, large unmanned systems will be useless, and it may even be impossible to build them due to the lack of technologies developed for smaller platforms."

'Ramsay' is also sceptical:

"To be honest, this news raises many questions."

10/ "Without understanding the overall picture of what kind of fleet the Navy command intends to have after the completion of the current shipbuilding program, it is difficult to assess the admiral's words...

11/ "It is undoubtedly true that the future belongs to unmanned systems, but what form they should take is a question of analysis and research. And the statement about a 500-ton naval drone, frankly, is not very inspiring. For other drones, it is simply a regular target.

12/ "And that means it will have to be equipped with defensive weapons, which will only increase its weight and cost. In turn, this will make it an even more attractive target..."

13/ 'Seva of Sevastopol' notes that the announcement "has caused confusion and questions for many, including myself." He has asked a serving naval officer who specialises in the development of weapons systems for feedback:

14/ "– How justified is this project? Is it capable of defending itself against UAVs, unmanned surface vehicles, missiles, etc.? Or is it just another example of grandiose ambitions and a Potemkin village?

15/ "– It's quite feasible. The Americans started testing anti-submarine and mine-laying unmanned vehicles back in the 2010s (for example, the unmanned Sea Hunter anti-submarine boat). The question is only whether they will allocate enough money for it. And that's the key.

16/ "Any ship, even a very advanced one, cannot protect itself from a well-prepared attack. The air defence systems on all ships of any navy are not very effective. In fact, land-based air defence systems also don't live up to the expectations of the average person.

17/ "The fact that the "Moskva" was sunk is not surprising.

1. It should have been decommissioned long before the Special Military Operation due to its technical condition (the ship's service life was 25 years, and it was 40 years old).

18/ "2. The attack was well-prepared, not by Ukrainians, and was not carried out by Ukrainian missiles – that's the key.

19/ "– So, the question is: how justified is a large, expensive unmanned vehicle in an era when it can be destroyed by a group of much cheaper, smaller unmanned vehicles and strike UAVs?

20/ "Wouldn't it be better to focus on creating flotillas of small, multi-functional unmanned vehicles, rather than building an expensive behemoth? As one channel put it, "We're building one 'Tirpitz' when the enemy is using wolf packs."

21/ "– That's a question for the defence industry. The Navy is forced to adopt what they can produce, not what they ordered. This has been a problem since Soviet times.

22/ "Regarding small 'fireships' [kamakaze USVs], their task is to sink ships, and that's it. This unmanned vehicle is given different tasks.

You always have to start with the tasks that are set, and the resources that are allocated for it.

23/ "– Okay, regarding the tasks. Regarding the subordination of the development of the defence industry to financial capabilities – okay.

24/ "But here's the question: will it be able to perform its tasks (especially when its production requires a lot of money with limited resources), in a situation where these small 'fireships' along with UAVs, have already taken out half the fleet in the Black Sea?

25/ "The question of the expediency of construction arises if it is impossible to ensure safety.

– 500 tons is nothing, anything smaller is considered a boat.

26/ "In any case, it is cheaper than a corvette or a missile patrol boat, which are no longer being built. Its task is to search for submarines, not to destroy enemy ships through self-destruction.

27/ "The issue of self-defence is relevant for all units of the fleet, including auxiliary vessels, which generally have no self-defence weapons and are actually larger in number than combat units. Detecting enemy submarines is one of the most important tasks of the fleet.

28/ Oleg Tsarov thinks the Navy is wasting its time on grandiose projects rather than trying to emulate Ukraine's highly effective kamikaze USVs:

"Now is the time for cheap and effective unmanned strike vehicles. But we will not be building a small, fast, cheap unmanned vessel."

29/ "We will be building a maritime super-drone. With a displacement of 500 tons. We will spend billions. The reader is led to believe that, supposedly, no one else has anything like it – there are no analogues in the world.

30/ "However, the claim of being "the first in the world" is, to put it mildly, not entirely accurate. The United States has had the tested Sea Hunter (145 tons) for several years, and is now building a series of Medium Unmanned Surface Vessels – …

31/ …also 500 tons, for the same anti-submarine tasks. China has its own Sea Hunter clone, weighing 200 tons. So, analogues already exist.

32/ "And now we see Ukrainian unmanned vessels attacking our ships and attempting to strike the Crimean Bridge. But we don't see any of our unmanned vessels anywhere. It is obvious that we need to focus on small unmanned vessels, as I wrote above, and not on super-projects.

33/ "The future is in drones. Large and small. For different tasks. But right now, we urgently need small unmanned vessels. We need them now, not later, after the large one. It would be logical to focus on them."

UAV developer Sergey T. is openly scornful about Moiseyev's plans:

34/ "What an amazing person this Moiseyev is.

He witnessed the destruction of half of the Black Sea Fleet, including the flagship, as the country without a fleet employed a "wolf pack" tactic.

And yet, he's planning to build a Tirpitz 🥳

35/ "But now you understand a little better why things are so good for us at sea."

He highlights the problems that he feels the Russian Navy needs to focus on fixing, rather than developing a giant USV for a non-urgent requirement:

36/ "Today, the Navy has exactly two problems:

1. Its weapons are irrelevant to the threats. Here, in the photo, is the AK-630, the core of the ship's automatic defense. It was developed against cruise missiles and is ineffective against farts.

37/ "At the very least, it has poor detection. Furthermore, it's no secret that in calm weather, the AK-630 can cover water no closer than 800 metres from the ship, due to its barrel geometry and placement.

38/ "And if an enemy unmanned aerial vehicle penetrates this zone, the AK-630 dries its barrels. After that, only the PKM [machine gun] crew can do anything.

39/ "To be fair, all navies around the world have the same problems, but so far, only we and, to a lesser extent, the Americans are getting the short end of the stick.

40/ "2. The lack of USVs. Specifically, small, cheap, and effective weapons. Which can descend on a target in a mass, overload its defence systems, and sink it.

41/ "Not necessarily in kamikaze mode, but in an integrated system with air and surface cover from these same USVs, which the Ukrainians have been implementing for a year now.

42/ "Moreover, the cost of the attack will be much lower than the cost of the target, and this is a key factor in success.

And the lack of communication at sea (Starlink) is a major hurdle, which, in general, can be solved through meshing if there is a desire to solve it.

43/ "Moiseyev, however, is proposing to build a five-hundred-ton unmanned combat vessel, which solves none of the problems mentioned and will be sunk just like any other similar ship.

44/ "For some reason, the raid on Ukraine is being carried out by hundreds of Gerans, not a single unmanned Tu-95, but I don't know whether Moiseyev has analyzed this experience.

45/ "I only suspect that the Zephyr unmanned surface vessel, which is barely alive, has been pushed within the navy by Moiseyev for years, according to unconfirmed rumours.

46/ "And all budgets are being spent on this USV, instead of creating a competitive environment for other projects.

We had a similar situation with the Yagas [heavy drones], and the director of Future Transport, who had his sights set on the Yaga of all Russia, is now in jail.

47/ "However, the Yagas are still missing from the army, and this news doesn't make things any easier for the soldiers on the ground.

Nor do the sailors, who continue to trade their lives for kazankas [boats] and Starlinks in the absence of other means of combat...

48/ "Whether the Tirpitz named after Moiseyev will help reclaim the sea is a big question. In my opinion, the commander-in-chief is completely oblivious to this trend." /end

Sources:
🔹 t.me/zvezdanews/178…
🔹 t.me/rybar/81988
🔹 t.me/ramzayiegokoma…
🔹 t.me/warhistoryalco…
🔹 t.me/SewaSewastopol…
🔹 t.me/olegtsarov/456…
🔹 t.me/romanov_92/550…
🔹 t.me/UAVDEV/12308
🔹 t.me/UAVDEV/12316