@JamesTitcombe Interesting, useful. 3 big questions: Is this about how to deliver systemic change in system using that system and its vested interests groups and associations to deliver this ? (A contradiction, weakness, flaw at the heart surely? So two follow up questions: @JamesTitcombe 2/3 have you examples from other countries where this kind of maternity system challenge has been addressed? ( successfully? How? Evidence? Addressing similar issues re normal births narrative etc?)