Thread by @SelimSeesYou

Watching the BBC’s six party documentary on the Spanish Civil War. I won’t finish it all tonight.

First thing that strikes me is how inapt comparisons are to modern US in two ways: 1) our “revolution” is much more cringe (gentleman interviewed said it was for working class) & 2) if it is analogous to US, it’s going to be so much worse here. Cause demands can’t be met.

The whole point of today’s thing is entirely fictional & is just hatred of White people. Not something you can just solve with getting elites to give the poor & working some extra bread. You can’t compromise on “we want to abolish you completely.” If it blows it’ll be bad.

I wish the “conflict” was actually starting on a class struggle basis. It would be easier to solve or sympathize with.

Ok now I’m seeing the parallels: when church burnings started, the Republican defense minister said “all the churches in Spain were not worth one Republican life” (despite it pissing off the other half of the country deeply when police let mob run wild).

“People over property”

“Words like these were never forgotten. Or forgiven.”

Indeed.

There is definitely a bias as well: the left is framed very positively & the right’s motives are not really explored or framed as just greed/stubbornness etc.

This sounds like today as well: basically the left got what they wanted. They’re burning churches, they overthrew the monarchy, the whole bit. Not good enough. Anarchists go wild in some town & the cops shoot them & the socialists collapse the govt over it.

“The socialists were losing faith in parliamentary democracy (despite being in power). The anarchists never believed in it. And the right hadn’t yet lost faith.” That sounds familiar. The right still buying in. Until they don’t.

“The right still hoped by winning elections they could halt & reverse the whole tide of events.”

The more things change...

The right wins the next election in 1933 with a new Catholic party & they win big. They slow or try to reverse reforms. “The left was appalled”. Not knowing the ins & outs of this story, I’m gonna guess the left didn’t just shake hands, lose gracefully, & wait their turn.

And they didn’t. The excuse is “oh gawd: they looked out across Europe at Italy & Germany & they simply couldn’t let the election be the final word.”

We should do that: when the Dems win, be like “the left won in Venezuela once & look what happened: we must overturn election.”

So the guy that was a socialist in his youth explains there had been a “regression in Spanish politics” (monarchy overthrown like 2 years before, church burnings) and the right had won election only one year before but he says “we decided we had to overthrow the govt”.

It is just like now: massive left wing victories on every front but always feeling like there’s “regression” + “we lost an election: time to over throw the govt” (despite them being govt for many years straight beforehand)

“Divisions & tensions had reached such a point that even seeing a socialist, not to mention a communist, was the same as seeing the devil.”

My man.

Finally to the mention of the Falange & José Antonio Primo de Rivera. The good stuff.

Making a protein shake but did I hear this correctly: some left wing officer in the state police died so the retaliation is a bunch of arrests & murdering the leader of the political opposition?

Reached the end of episode one. The coup begins & Morocco & spreads into Spain. Lesson for the right tho: the “workers” & lefties didn’t start out armed. US cons who say “hur dur we have all the guns it’ll be a cakewalk if it happens”. The other side will get guns quickly.

*in Morocco

Begun episode 2: anarchists in Barcelona got into the armory & now have guns.

They’re storming the barracks in Madrid to get the bolts to make their guns work.

Sorry I should say the govt in Madrid decided to “arm the ppl” but most guns didn’t have bolts so the people gotta fight to get the bolts out of the barracks.

The soldiers tried to troll the people with a fake surrender & then shot them. So when the people finally did get in, they killed the soldiers often without option to surrender. Tit for tat I guess. Ugly.

“Be definition anarchists had to oppose organized militarism”

Gonna be a bit of problem in fighting a war lol

The narrator speaks of the murder of 6,000 priests, nuns, and monks, accompanied by pictures of desecrated statues of Mary with the face carved out, is followed by the line “it fueled nationalist propaganda”

Our very own “GOP seize” moment

The killing of priests wasn’t the prob

So we get past the excavation of the remains of nuns but narrator reminds of atrocities on the other side: some Mola quote about the need to win & shoot the opposition. So the same thing the left was doing up in Barcelona. A war is fought. But the right doesn’t dig up nuns graves

It’s such a weird false equivalence: we’ve already established it’s a civil war, both sides are going to fight it, both sides are shooting prisoners/those suspected of being enemies.

But what is the equivalent on the right of digging up nun graves? Of being that sick?

That Mola said “we need to win this & shoot those that oppose us” isn’t some revelation or on par with the sick shit the left was doing (not to mention the left was doing what Mola was talking about + their grave desecrating bit on top of it like animals)

It’s just such a weird pivot. “You might think the left is bad & twisted but let me tell you: the right is going to fight this war the way wars have always been fought. So think long & hard about that before disparaging the left.”

I have been duly chastised that both are equal.

I just got to how when the left executes prisoners it’s not so bad cause it’s the frenzy of the mob but the right is much worse cause they do it in a cold, orderly fashion. Cool story.

“Let it be known: for every right wing person killed in the villages, I shall kill ten. And perhaps exceed this proportion.” -the Chad general down in Seville.

This guy has the right mindset.

This is what I would want from my allies, were I a right wing person in a village that could be harmed: death avenged 10-fold.

Reactionary Expat said the same once in a video: that you have to start thinking in those terms (he wasn’t necessarily referring to civil war, I think it was re: urbanites getting run over by trucks of peace). Can’t save everyone, each of us is worth 10 of them. Or 100. Mindset.

The nationalists take Badajoz on Portuguese border. Portuguese journo asks man in charge “rumor is you had 2K executed. Is it true?” “Not that many...” said in a way that indicated it was true. American journo asks same question & general says “how could I keep 4K red prisoners?”

Mad man.

The Portuguese journo finds a priest. Disturbed by the scenes he has witnessed, piles of bodies from the Badajoz massacre, he turns to the priest for comfort. The priest shrugs. “They deserved it” the priest says.

Republican forces having trouble on the front lines: “when every they received an order, they’d have to have a general assembly to see if they’d obey it”. Sounds like that old reddit post about the street fighting after Trump won. A lefty lamented how less organized they were.

End of episode two. The Republican forces are evacuating Madrid just 4 months into the war. Just about over I’m sure. /s

“1930s Europe. Hitler/Mussolini/Stalin in power. Democracy under threat. Britain & France fearful of a European war.” Didn’t Britain kind of start/insert themselves into/escalate the war by choice?

No material support came from liberal democracies but the Nationalists’ calls for aid were answered immediately *video of fighter plane squadron flying with Deutschland Über Alles playing as musical accompaniment*

“Hitler sent transport planes to airlift Spanish army form Morocco two days into the war, well above Franco’s request for some weaponry” What a nice guy.

*from

Mussolini has likewise entered the chat. Ryan Faulk had a video on how Hitler could have won by having a better foreign policy re: Spain & Turkey to close off the Med. Could have done more (both carrot & stick) to bring them on side.

France has entered the chat on the side of the Republicans & sent arms.

France asks Britain to get on side & Britain in typical fashion does the bit. “Lol not our problem & we won’t help you France.”

France reverses course & decides against sending those arms actually. Tries to assemble a non-interventionist team of nations with Britain.

Russia has entered the chat.

Russians sends canned milk & advisors. No guns. The Republicans were very disappointed Uncle Joe let them down.

Soviet planes arrive to save Madrid.

Times (British paper) journo embedded with Franco’s troops to cover the war was in fact spying for the Russians. Never trust a journo.

One British young man showed up to fight for the Republic cause he believed in liberalism & was dismayed to find pretty much all foreign fighters were communists & came to bring communism, not liberalism. Nothing ever changes lol

Reminds me of “Syrian democratic rebels” or the like. Spoiler: they aren’t liberal or democratic.

“Conservatives” up in Basque country doing the “Franco isn’t a real Christian” bit & fighting alongside anarchists. Another “I’ve seen this shit before” parallel.

Britain being perfidious. Unwilling to break blockade on the Basque, as mentioned earlier doing the non-intervention routine with France but secretly plotting mineral contracts with the nationalists after they win. Lol.

German planes bomb the shit out of Guernica. They interview the squadron leader about the attack & he is unapologetic. “I followed orders & we were fighting communists. Didn’t phase me.”

On to episode 4 which I’ve been reliably informed is the best episode. “Franco & the Nationalists”

In quick succession Franco became the youngest ever Captain, Major, and Colonel in Spanish army. By 33 he was a General. He grew up as Spain lost overseas empire & was ass blasted he’d never get to be in an epic navy. But went to Morocco in army instead.

Franco was a sort of compromise candidate. The various factions (monarchist, traditionalist, fascist, etc) needed someone that at least somewhat pleased all of them & their aims. Franco was good enough on each one’s issues to be the guy in charge. And someone had to be in charge.

No rightist infighting. Unity.

“By our powers combined!”

As an army officer who was interviewed put it: “a single command wins a war, multiple commands lose a war.” Hence the relief among nationalists that Franco alone was put in charge.

Jose Antonio of the Falange makes their pitch. He says Spain will be great again once they put down the big three divisions ruining the country: separatism, political parties, and class struggle. Not bad.

They stole the working class’s blue attire, the anarchists flag colors, and the commies use of “comrade”. Appropriating & redefining memes a la Pepe.

It didn’t work tho. Never got mass working class appeal cause conditions just weren’t right on the ground for it like Germany & Italy.

One thing that is always weird is to hear about the “working class” & having to translate in my head that that is the left back then. Cause in 2020 America, I’m pro working class & I’m on the right.

Gotta take a break to hit the weights. Will return to this thread later.

Don’t find my arms that impressive but beginning to get “gun show” style compliments nonetheless. With that humble brag we return to Spain.

Jose Antonio is dead. Murdered in prison. The Falange’s larger ambitions died with him, tho Franco did pay his respects to keep the rw coalition in tact.

The Pope has entered the chat on the side of Franco.

Jose Antonio’s sister is being interviewed & she’s based. Says Republican side is chaos & has all these weird ideas. Nationalist is efficient & ordered. On the left, women would go to the front. On the right, it was understood woman’s role was in the home.

Parallel with the US: the right controlled the food producing areas.

Franco is invading Catalonia, putting Republicans in camps by the thousands, hunting down anyone who supported the left even 18 months *before* the war even began. Not playing around.

That is the end of episode 4.

Episode 5 is all about the left. This will be the least interesting episode for me I’m sure. In Barcelona anarchists had burnt & looted churches, toppled govt but wouldn’t take power: hippy ideas about people building their own free society with no authority maaannnn

They abolish money & do a barter system in Barcelona in the first few weeks of the war. Can’t wait to find out how this works out lol

There’s some anarchist broad blaming the communists for losing the war. “The moment they organized a military to fight the Nationalists, I knew we’d lost.” Does she not know how war works? You need a hierarchy to wage it.

Following Stalin’s lead, Spanish commies sidelined anarchists (Stalin purged them right away for good reason in Russia) & Trotskyists.

Leftist infighting went hot: civil war within the civil war for 5 days. Total communist victory. It really is like those Jreg videos if you’ve ever watched (cringey but kind of funny): even if “the revolution” succeeds, the commies will purge the anarchists every time.

And now the communists are purging POUM (some rival Marxist faction)

The end of episode 5. The good guys reach the Med & split the Republican domain in two. Total RW victory.

I’m not sure what to do after this. Was gonna hop over to the Russian Revolution & Civil War & see what that’s all about but I’ve gotten requests to do Yugoslavia live watch thread.

Before all that: episode 6 in Spain.

I’m not historically illiterate: I know the gist of this story (Franco wins) & the gist of the Russian story (the Bolsheviks win) but I do like watching the details of how it played out. Love to know how the Whites failed in Russia, for instance.

Episode 6 opens with the Republicans defending “Hill 666”. Fitting.

Munich 1938: Britain & France appease Hitler, refuse alliance with Stalin. So Stalin, with no allies to count on & not wanting to piss Hitler off, cuts Spain loose. Republicans are fucked now.

The show footage of refugees hiking up the Pyrenees in snow to get to France. And they actually look very refugee-esque (unlike today, where they look more like an invading army)

Many in Barcelona greeted the Nationalists as liberators. Having lived under anarchist terror, they were happy they could be Christian again openly.

Madrid was surrendered, government evacuates. Boat comes to get 500 higher ups & 30,000 Republicans zerg rush the dock hoping a boat would come for them. The boats never came lol

Franco wins. Opens concentration camps for 100s of thousands of enemies. Falange members allowed to visit & identify their political enemies being held there (nice touch)

Franco bad. That’s the end of episode 6 in a nutshell. Thanks for reading.