1/ This is is a thread on the implications on the proliferation of armed medium altitude long endurance (MALE) drones based on the on-going Azeri-Armenian war.
2/ A Russian language channel on youtube called "Lost Armor" has a "best hits" compilation of the Azeri drone strikes on Armenian military assets.
3/ The main killer in those videos are the Turkish Roketsan MAM-L and MAM-C laser guided munitions fired from the Bayraktar TB2 drone.
This is the Roketsan marketing video:
This is the Roketsan marketing video:
5/ The Bayraktar web site states the operational ceiling of the TB2 drone is 18,000 feet, it has a maximum service ceiling of 27,000 feet and an endurance of up to 27 hours. Essentially, an armed TB2 can loiter over a battlefield for 24 hours at an altitude a mile above the...
6/ ...maximum engagement altitude of a RIM-92 Stinger missile (12,500 feet) and bring back its load of 4 missiles. And the MAM-C & L munitions have a slant range almost double the Stingers maximum range at 8Km versus 4.8 km.
7/ What the use of the TB2 plus MAM-C & L in the Azeri - Armenian conflict means is that the US Army's Stryker vehicle based Interim Maneuver-Short-Range Air Defense (M-SHORAD) system is obsolete before it is deployed. 
8/ The M-SHORAD is armed with a 360-degree Avenger air defense turret designed to bring Stinger and AGM-114 Longbow Hellfire missiles, plus a XM914 30mm cannon, and a 7.62mm machine gun to bear against UAVs.
None of those weapons can reach a TB2 at 18,000 feet with a slant...
None of those weapons can reach a TB2 at 18,000 feet with a slant...
9/ ...range of 8km.
If the US Army ditched the Hellfire's for a pair of AIM-9X Sidewinders using US Army standard ground-based multi-mission box launchers. The M-SHORAD might deal with a TB2 class armed drone.
See:
aerocontact.com/en/virtual-avi…
If the US Army ditched the Hellfire's for a pair of AIM-9X Sidewinders using US Army standard ground-based multi-mission box launchers. The M-SHORAD might deal with a TB2 class armed drone.
See:
aerocontact.com/en/virtual-avi…
10/ The AIM-9X is a tail control missile. So, it is much faster due lower drag, plus it has demonstrated in tests higher peak speeds and load factors. The fact that it trialed in the KONGSBERG National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System (NASAMS) means it has crossed...
11/ ...from the range of a late Cold War man portable missile well into the high-altitude point defense performance category.
raytheon.mediaroom.com/2019-06-19-Ray…
raytheon.mediaroom.com/2019-06-19-Ray…
12/The Sidewinder AIM-9X has been cleared since 2009 for air-to-ground operations via a software update of its imaging thermal sensor. Trading a Hellfire for a Sidewinder simply means the M-SHORAD is giving up ability to kill an MBT for the ability to kill a TB2, not losing...
13/ ...the ability to kill all vehicles by trading out between missiles.
theaviationgeekclub.com/did-you-know-t…
theaviationgeekclub.com/did-you-know-t…
14/ And if a ground launched AIM-9X Block II doesn't have sufficient kinematics to reach a TB2 class drone over 20K feet, a RIM-116 Block II Rolling Airframe Missile's improved motor likely would.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-116_R…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-116_R…
15/ The second issue, search & tracking, is more problematic.
We know from the 2014-2015 Donbas fighting that the Ukrainians killed off nearly all of the Russian fleet of Israeli UAVs using SA-8 GECKO and at least once an SA-11 GADFLY. Engagement radars on both have a lot...
We know from the 2014-2015 Donbas fighting that the Ukrainians killed off nearly all of the Russian fleet of Israeli UAVs using SA-8 GECKO and at least once an SA-11 GADFLY. Engagement radars on both have a lot...
16/ ...better performance than anything you can put on a Stryker easily.
Also, the TB2 is sufficiently low signature that that 96K6 Pantsir S1 search radar and thermal imaging sensors could not acquire or reliably track it in Libya.
Also, the TB2 is sufficiently low signature that that 96K6 Pantsir S1 search radar and thermal imaging sensors could not acquire or reliably track it in Libya.
17/ What is needed for the quadcopter to TB2 drone threat on the M-SHORAD is a new sensor system.
Specifically, it needs a passive millimeter wave imaging sensor.
This was a sensor tech was 'spiked' in the 1990's by the US Military as a threat to stealth along with...
Specifically, it needs a passive millimeter wave imaging sensor.
This was a sensor tech was 'spiked' in the 1990's by the US Military as a threat to stealth along with...
18/ ...Ultra-Wideband/impulse radar.
Both sensor technologies were heavily advocated by the late Israeli-American drone engineer Yale Jay Lubkin.
See:
congress.gov/congressional-…
Both sensor technologies were heavily advocated by the late Israeli-American drone engineer Yale Jay Lubkin.
See:
congress.gov/congressional-…
19/ If Lubkin is remembered at all now. It is usually for his outspoken opposition to the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty as a Soviet technological restriction to drone development.
See his 3/11/1988 Letter to the Wall Street Journal here:
fortfreedom.org/w05.htm
See his 3/11/1988 Letter to the Wall Street Journal here:
fortfreedom.org/w05.htm
20/ Yale Jay Lubkin's advocacy of passive MMW imaging and UWB radar as cheap answers to stealth made him unemployable with US defense contractors.
His open public opposition to the 1988 INF Treaty made him an "unperson."
His open public opposition to the 1988 INF Treaty made him an "unperson."
21/ And that is saying a great deal since Lubkin was the man who invented the permissive action link used by United States to prevent unauthorized arming of nuclear weapons, as well as a National Science Foundation fellow & New York Board Regent. See:
prabook.com/web/yale_jay.l…
prabook.com/web/yale_jay.l…
22/ I went and tested Lubkin's passive MMW columns via arguing with a USAF senior development pilot in the late 1990's.
The argument was that the F-22 did not need a IRS&T, but needed a passive millimeter wave imaging S&T sensor instead.
Since to passive millimeter wave...
The argument was that the F-22 did not need a IRS&T, but needed a passive millimeter wave imaging S&T sensor instead.
Since to passive millimeter wave...
23/ ...sensor, a stealth plane against black background of the sky stood out so brightly that there was no way to stealth any airframe.
He did not say anything to that, mind you, but the panicked look on his face after laying that out was worth the price of buying him a drink.
He did not say anything to that, mind you, but the panicked look on his face after laying that out was worth the price of buying him a drink.
24/This brings up the real reason the US Army's M-SHORAD development was blighted to obsolescence before production began/
The problem is a failure in understanding how sensors and low observables actually work, and that a competent peer enemies first resort is to "switch bands"
The problem is a failure in understanding how sensors and low observables actually work, and that a competent peer enemies first resort is to "switch bands"
...something that started in the U-boat era of WW2.
This failure to understand technology is endemic in Western military flag ranks via promoting intellectually lazy dummies.
This failure to understand technology is endemic in Western military flag ranks via promoting intellectually lazy dummies.
26/ Try this one Australian flag ranks for effect, and feel free to distribute:
news.com.au/technology/inn…
news.com.au/technology/inn…
27/ Returning to the M-SHORAD development, the choice of active MMW radar Hellfire anti-tank missile versus a more kinematically robust AA missile seems to be flag rank procurement politics w/Congress.
Hellfire is a Lockheed Martin missile.
The Sidewinder is Raytheon.
Hellfire is a Lockheed Martin missile.
The Sidewinder is Raytheon.
28/28 IMO, the failed development of the M-SHORAD versus the fielded threat (low observable TB2 plus PGMs) is an indicator of both levels of technological competence and corruption present in the current generation of the US Army flag rank officers...low and high respectively.
29/28 Postscript
I forgot this text & link -
"Passive millimeter wave systems directly detect the natural radiation from the objects or the reflection from the environment. The concept is analogous to radiometry."
Millimeter-wave Imaging and Sensors
ece.ucdavis.edu/dmrc/research/…
I forgot this text & link -
"Passive millimeter wave systems directly detect the natural radiation from the objects or the reflection from the environment. The concept is analogous to radiometry."
Millimeter-wave Imaging and Sensors
ece.ucdavis.edu/dmrc/research/…
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