So I have been listening to the raw audio in my spare time, as I do it, I'm going to highlight some creepy takes.
this was in the veritas video, but at 36:20 the context makes it incredibly creepy, because Hopkins is wondering if 2+2 = 5.
this was in the veritas video, but at 36:20 the context makes it incredibly creepy, because Hopkins is wondering if 2+2 = 5.
And the Agent, is like 'yeah I'm pushing you right now'
I also recommend EVERYONE listen to this audio, because it's a good case study of how a LEO will come at you to get you to incriminate yourself.
It's why the saying is 'Don't talk to the police', get a lawyer.
I also recommend EVERYONE listen to this audio, because it's a good case study of how a LEO will come at you to get you to incriminate yourself.
It's why the saying is 'Don't talk to the police', get a lawyer.
At 42:05 the agent is guiding Hopkins along, playing philosophical tricks to make him explicitly unsure about what the whole scenario is.
Very Follow/Lead a la @ScottAdamsSays
Very Follow/Lead a la @ScottAdamsSays
The Role the Agent plays is very 'submissive' make it clear Hopkins is in the lead, while subverting his statements and letting him get worked up by pointing out all the little 'weaknesses' in his story.
At this point Hopkins is frustrated.
At this point Hopkins is frustrated.
Agent: "The reality is, you heard words, and assumed what they were saying"
Hopkins(in agreement, and frustration): "My mind probably added the rest, I understand that!"
Hopkins(in agreement, and frustration): "My mind probably added the rest, I understand that!"
43:25, Hopkins is upset, it's been stressful and he's freaked out.
The Agent then says 'your freaked out because it's gotten out of everyone's hands'
The Agent then says 'your freaked out because it's gotten out of everyone's hands'
43:25 cont.
Hopkins says 'hearsay'
Agents contradicts him and says 'it's not hearsay it's just an assumption' then goes on to try and make him recant, saying 'we can't make a case out of this'
If he is Law Enforcement, it's not for him to decide.
Hopkins says 'hearsay'
Agents contradicts him and says 'it's not hearsay it's just an assumption' then goes on to try and make him recant, saying 'we can't make a case out of this'
If he is Law Enforcement, it's not for him to decide.
45:05
As a fun aside, Hopkins is nervous and literally can't get out 'adding 2 and 2 together' right, the irony of the situation explodes.
As a fun aside, Hopkins is nervous and literally can't get out 'adding 2 and 2 together' right, the irony of the situation explodes.
45:25
NEVER think any law enforcement officer is going to 'protect you' when they are interviewing you.
the Agent tries to make that point that since (gofundme) money is involved, he could get sued for making that money, and the Agent is 'protecting' Hopkins from that.
NEVER think any law enforcement officer is going to 'protect you' when they are interviewing you.
the Agent tries to make that point that since (gofundme) money is involved, he could get sued for making that money, and the Agent is 'protecting' Hopkins from that.
47:05
Agent makes up a hypothetical situation to drive home that Hopkins could be mistaken and that he should feel horrible if he is.
This is a false dichotomy, all Hopkins wants is an investigation, and the Agent is corrupting it into something else
Hopkins should end it there
Agent makes up a hypothetical situation to drive home that Hopkins could be mistaken and that he should feel horrible if he is.
This is a false dichotomy, all Hopkins wants is an investigation, and the Agent is corrupting it into something else
Hopkins should end it there
48:20
Agent makes Hopkins promise that he's not going to talk to anyone while taking a smoke break, right before then, he made Hopkins confirm that he trusted the Agent.
That confirmation and control are both real mental plays, to lead Hopkins along.
Agent makes Hopkins promise that he's not going to talk to anyone while taking a smoke break, right before then, he made Hopkins confirm that he trusted the Agent.
That confirmation and control are both real mental plays, to lead Hopkins along.
53:55
Hopkins goes out for a smoke break, when they come back it's time to talk about @Project_Veritas
they want to know all about it, what sort of advice, Hopkins knows the @JamesOKeefeIII has his back.
Agent tries to smear Veritas.
Hopkins goes out for a smoke break, when they come back it's time to talk about @Project_Veritas
they want to know all about it, what sort of advice, Hopkins knows the @JamesOKeefeIII has his back.
Agent tries to smear Veritas.
56:40
I think it should be noted that it sounds like @Project_Veritas and @JamesOKeefeIII has a well put together framework for their witnesses, giving them lots of support.
gotta say it makes them look really good, cause the Agents are really trying to put the screws in.
I think it should be noted that it sounds like @Project_Veritas and @JamesOKeefeIII has a well put together framework for their witnesses, giving them lots of support.
gotta say it makes them look really good, cause the Agents are really trying to put the screws in.
Hopkins is getting frustrated because his Union doesn't have his back, and so he wanted to come out because then it would be investigated.
Agent is trying to pry Hopkins out of Project Veritas, by saying that the liability for the money from the gofundme is on Hopkins.
Agent is trying to pry Hopkins out of Project Veritas, by saying that the liability for the money from the gofundme is on Hopkins.
Agent is trying to make Hopkins feel like the Agent is the only ally Hopkins has.
Another restatement of 'I'm trying to protect you'
Keep in mind Agent Strasser is acting in the capacity as a Federal Law Enforcement Officer. He isn't there to protect Hopkins, he's there to investigate.
ANY evidence he can show is a crime he will use against ANYONE he is investigating.
this is why you don't talk to LEOs.
ANY evidence he can show is a crime he will use against ANYONE he is investigating.
this is why you don't talk to LEOs.
1:06:50
Okay folks, here is where things are going to go super creepy and Agent Strasser is going to press Hopkins hard into creating a false memory, He even says so.
Okay folks, here is where things are going to go super creepy and Agent Strasser is going to press Hopkins hard into creating a false memory, He even says so.
1:09:00
So Agent Strasser, has already limited the words 'in the conversation' and is trying to understand the amount of wiggle room he has, Hopkins affirms he heared "postmarked"
So Agent Strasser, has already limited the words 'in the conversation' and is trying to understand the amount of wiggle room he has, Hopkins affirms he heared "postmarked"
1:10:45
So nothing may come of it, but Hopkins DID secretly mark a ballot? collection of ballots? something like that with the proper date.
honestly I don't know enough about the postal service to say how they handled the ballots or what he would've marked.
So nothing may come of it, but Hopkins DID secretly mark a ballot? collection of ballots? something like that with the proper date.
honestly I don't know enough about the postal service to say how they handled the ballots or what he would've marked.
1:12:20
Agent Strasser is pretty much straight up lying, but that's what Agents are trained to do, what he is really after is to get his own sworn statement from Hopkins and see if it matches the affidavit EXACTLY.
IF IT DOESN'T it's lying to a federal officer.
Agent Strasser is pretty much straight up lying, but that's what Agents are trained to do, what he is really after is to get his own sworn statement from Hopkins and see if it matches the affidavit EXACTLY.
IF IT DOESN'T it's lying to a federal officer.
1:13:55
They are reading the affidavit word for word 'to make sure it's right and Hopkins doesn't want to "fix" anything'
see the last post (for 1:12:20) in the thread why this is so dangerous to answer.
They are reading the affidavit word for word 'to make sure it's right and Hopkins doesn't want to "fix" anything'
see the last post (for 1:12:20) in the thread why this is so dangerous to answer.
1:15:00
The Agent quotes the paragraph, and says 'there is a bunch of interpretation in it'
They are trying to make him amend his statement so it's more 'accurate' but also a weaker one.
The Agent quotes the paragraph, and says 'there is a bunch of interpretation in it'
They are trying to make him amend his statement so it's more 'accurate' but also a weaker one.
1:16:00
They line him up, put a bunch of doubt into his statement and then pressure him to amend it.
The affidavit is what they were going for, they wanted that recanted so it can't be used in court.
They then go through and try to get him to make an updated affidavit.
They line him up, put a bunch of doubt into his statement and then pressure him to amend it.
The affidavit is what they were going for, they wanted that recanted so it can't be used in court.
They then go through and try to get him to make an updated affidavit.
1:22:25
so there is a lot of reading of the affidavit, a short period of 'ease' where not much is happening and then this:
Agent Strasser stresses that he 'trusts' Hopkins, that he 'believes' him, that is a very common tactic to make Hopkins do what Strasser wants.
so there is a lot of reading of the affidavit, a short period of 'ease' where not much is happening and then this:
Agent Strasser stresses that he 'trusts' Hopkins, that he 'believes' him, that is a very common tactic to make Hopkins do what Strasser wants.
This is a big lot of projection, you can tell because it goes from 'WE are filling in potholes, to protect YOU'
THEY are filling in potholes to protect THEM.
it's a half truth because while Hopkins will be 'protected' if everything goes away, it also accomplishes NOTHING.
THEY are filling in potholes to protect THEM.
it's a half truth because while Hopkins will be 'protected' if everything goes away, it also accomplishes NOTHING.
And here you have the ultimate projection, to say these Agents AREN'T self-interested, is absolute crockery.
It looks real bad on EVERYONE in the USPS if there is the level of corruption that the Affidavit swears to, and that means BIG changes.
It looks real bad on EVERYONE in the USPS if there is the level of corruption that the Affidavit swears to, and that means BIG changes.
1:24:20
okay I'm not a lawyer, but this seems like a really important process thing
it SEEMS like the federal officers are changing Hopkin's Affidavit without his approval.
that seems like that should not be allowed to happen.
okay I'm not a lawyer, but this seems like a really important process thing
it SEEMS like the federal officers are changing Hopkin's Affidavit without his approval.
that seems like that should not be allowed to happen.
1:29:45
This kind of determination should happen at the behest of Hopkin's lawyers, NOT for two federal agents. If you are in this situation get a lawyer present to represent YOU.
ANYONE will be emotional at this sort of pressure, and you need to have someone represent you.
This kind of determination should happen at the behest of Hopkin's lawyers, NOT for two federal agents. If you are in this situation get a lawyer present to represent YOU.
ANYONE will be emotional at this sort of pressure, and you need to have someone represent you.
1:32:00
So this is another leading question, and after an hour and a half of seeding doubts by Agent Strasser, they are really ready to cut every bit of his words up except for the three or four Hopkins is adamant on.
So this is another leading question, and after an hour and a half of seeding doubts by Agent Strasser, they are really ready to cut every bit of his words up except for the three or four Hopkins is adamant on.
1:35:32
"Okay, but I'm more concerned with, with everyone knowing the way YOUR logic worked, is why you ended up there."
seems pretty accusatory and character attack-y to me, probably one of the sentences by Agent Strasser that struck me the most so far.
"Okay, but I'm more concerned with, with everyone knowing the way YOUR logic worked, is why you ended up there."
seems pretty accusatory and character attack-y to me, probably one of the sentences by Agent Strasser that struck me the most so far.
1:37:10
An excellent point made by Hopkins here and really should be a question for the Agents.
They will likely ignore it, AND probably it will never be reported on.
An excellent point made by Hopkins here and really should be a question for the Agents.
They will likely ignore it, AND probably it will never be reported on.
Sometimes LEOs will just make stuff up, and Hopkins hammers them for it.
also funny typo, Raul should be raw
Hopkins is saying, that it's weird the ballots weren't processed normally, the Agents don't really have a response and then move on.
also funny typo, Raul should be raw
Hopkins is saying, that it's weird the ballots weren't processed normally, the Agents don't really have a response and then move on.
1:38:28
they start talking about amending the Affidavit again, and an interesting slight of hand happened.
Did you miss it?
'presumably...'
They are removing the rest of the story. This is why you don't let LEOs touch your affidavits, ONLY your lawyers should do that.
they start talking about amending the Affidavit again, and an interesting slight of hand happened.
Did you miss it?
'presumably...'
They are removing the rest of the story. This is why you don't let LEOs touch your affidavits, ONLY your lawyers should do that.
Hopkins knows he's being F'd with.
Also the transcriber can't understand 'raw', instead they put 'RA'
Also the transcriber can't understand 'raw', instead they put 'RA'
1:41:00
Here is another particularly horrifying statement from Agent Strasser.
"I am shaving logic away, that's what I'm doing."
Here is another particularly horrifying statement from Agent Strasser.
"I am shaving logic away, that's what I'm doing."
In the next few moments you see two law enforcement officers, 'act' like lawyers, when that happens you have to be EXTREMELY careful, and probably leave the situation.
1:44:05
OH SHIT!
He dropped the important 'presumably'
And this is why you don't trust Law Enforcement to act like your Lawyer. This is another way that @washingtonpost could claim that Hopkins 'recanted'
OH SHIT!
He dropped the important 'presumably'
And this is why you don't trust Law Enforcement to act like your Lawyer. This is another way that @washingtonpost could claim that Hopkins 'recanted'
Ladies and gentlemen, the 'recant'
1:46:20
OH. MY. GOD.
The agents are now just rewriting the affidavit to be thrown out entirely. "The facts didn't support me"
Absolute B.S! If these agents should be ashamed of any one thing in this 'interview', they should be ashamed of this!
OH. MY. GOD.
The agents are now just rewriting the affidavit to be thrown out entirely. "The facts didn't support me"
Absolute B.S! If these agents should be ashamed of any one thing in this 'interview', they should be ashamed of this!
1:48:32
Now they are just heaping it on, they are going to change the last paragraph to reinforce that he 'doesn't have firsthand knowledge'
Both statements were technically true, one statement undermines itself.
And the Agents know that to be the case.
Now they are just heaping it on, they are going to change the last paragraph to reinforce that he 'doesn't have firsthand knowledge'
Both statements were technically true, one statement undermines itself.
And the Agents know that to be the case.
1:49:37
Hopkins, knows he's being gotten by the two federal agents, but I think he feels 'pot committed' when he could stop at any time, he just wants it to finish.
Hopkins makes the amazing observation 'ass of you and me'
He knows how that (won't) play in court.
Hopkins, knows he's being gotten by the two federal agents, but I think he feels 'pot committed' when he could stop at any time, he just wants it to finish.
Hopkins makes the amazing observation 'ass of you and me'
He knows how that (won't) play in court.
1:51:10
Agent Strasser is pretty much making the weakest Affidavit possible.
Agent Strasser is pretty much making the weakest Affidavit possible.
1:51:44
This is the saddest part of the video. Hopkins wonders "ever feel like you were doing the right thing and then you kind of regret it?"
they have twisted and broken his statement bare, pressuring him and attacking his character like a million little needles.
This is the saddest part of the video. Hopkins wonders "ever feel like you were doing the right thing and then you kind of regret it?"
they have twisted and broken his statement bare, pressuring him and attacking his character like a million little needles.
1:53:55
What's the matter Agent Strasser? Don't want people to think that you coerced him into making a weaker affidavit?
because that literally is what you were doing?
I can understand what Hopkins means when he said he 'felt used'
What's the matter Agent Strasser? Don't want people to think that you coerced him into making a weaker affidavit?
because that literally is what you were doing?
I can understand what Hopkins means when he said he 'felt used'
1:54:02
Okay this is great, Agent Strasser is told he is being recorded, and he kinda panics and says 'well this is a federal investigation so don't release it!'
Okay this is great, Agent Strasser is told he is being recorded, and he kinda panics and says 'well this is a federal investigation so don't release it!'
He continues going into a longwinded covering of his own ass.
1:57:42
So here is the written statement
So here is the written statement
2:00:50
They are now getting Hopkins (who goes by Alex) to write a statement in his own handwriting so they can further refute the affidavit.
and smear @Project_Veritas in the process
They are now getting Hopkins (who goes by Alex) to write a statement in his own handwriting so they can further refute the affidavit.
and smear @Project_Veritas in the process
2:01:50
Finally Hopkins shows them the pocket recorder, and they are like, "well we are going to need permission"
still trying to cover their asses
Finally Hopkins shows them the pocket recorder, and they are like, "well we are going to need permission"
still trying to cover their asses
And that was everything pretty much.
My closing thoughts are this is very much how these things go. Law Enforcement is very good at making you feel like everything is alright, while they are absolutely f'ing you over.
My closing thoughts are this is very much how these things go. Law Enforcement is very good at making you feel like everything is alright, while they are absolutely f'ing you over.
Hopkins probably left that meeting thinking to himself 'well this was a huge mistake, thank god, Agent Strasser came along to set me on the right path'
and then later, maybe in conversation with Vertias Lawyers, realized just how much they f*d with him.
and then later, maybe in conversation with Vertias Lawyers, realized just how much they f*d with him.
@ThreadReaderApp unroll
I want to point to this excellent thread that goes over the audio as well, this time from a Lawyer's point of view, it's extremely informative, and I highly suggest people read it.
https://twitter.com/McAdooGordon/status/1326655155207540739?s=20
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