Webinar on “A Vision for Virtual Courts” jointly organised by Forum for Fast Justice, Public Concern for Governance Trust (PCGT) and National Federation of Societies for Fast Justice will begin shortly. 
The speakers for the event are retired Justice RC Chavan and present Justice GS Patel from #BombayHighCourt.
The session will be moderated by Shailesh Gandhi, Former Central Information Commissioner.
Chairman of PCGT JF Ribeiro will deliver the concluding remarks.
The session will be moderated by Shailesh Gandhi, Former Central Information Commissioner.
Chairman of PCGT JF Ribeiro will deliver the concluding remarks.
Session begins.
Shailesh Gandhi gives the welcome address.
Shailesh Gandhi gives the welcome address.
Retired Justice RC Chavan begins his address.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: India is a population of over 135 crores and 355 crore cases are pending in trial courts of which about 1 crore have been pending for over a year.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: India is a population of over 135 crores and 355 crore cases are pending in trial courts of which about 1 crore have been pending for over a year.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: There is a case in Calcutta HC which is pending since 1950, even before I was born!
Justice (retd.) Chavan: And if I am right, it is an execution petition, so you can imagine when the first notice of motion was filed.
Everyday about 30,000 cases are filed in each court, even in lockdown.
Everyday about 30,000 cases are filed in each court, even in lockdown.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: And you can imagine the space being consumed by the pending cases, I am not even talking about the disposed cases.
Imagine how much paper is used, how many trees were cut for this paper.
For trial at least 5 people come per case, including the witnesses.
Imagine how much paper is used, how many trees were cut for this paper.
For trial at least 5 people come per case, including the witnesses.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: This year the e-courts committee has strived hard for paperless courts, and e-filing. Then there is virtual courts where parties need not come to court physically.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: Paperless courts will enable advocates and clients to work together from different places. They need not be in the same location for even signing a document.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: Why would parties choose e-filing if they have to file a hard copy as well.
You file a hard copy, then you get it scanned.
Why do Courts insist on hard copies? This may be because presiding officers may not be comfortable going paperless.
You file a hard copy, then you get it scanned.
Why do Courts insist on hard copies? This may be because presiding officers may not be comfortable going paperless.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: But younger officers could make do with paperless courts.
For older officers, maybe the registry could print the necessary papers.
For older officers, maybe the registry could print the necessary papers.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: I am old by age, but I am young at heart. Hence I am comfortable in a paperless environment.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: In criminal courts too, they have been provided with laptops, so they should strive for paperless environment.
A bulk of pending cases are under Negotiable Instruments Act. They should be encouraged to file digital complaint.
A bulk of pending cases are under Negotiable Instruments Act. They should be encouraged to file digital complaint.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: If we cannot have ‘paperless’ courts, we can try for ‘less paper’ courts.
Most papers are procedural documents - adjournment slips, purshis, they take up half the bulk. Such applications can be filed digitally.
Most papers are procedural documents - adjournment slips, purshis, they take up half the bulk. Such applications can be filed digitally.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: Once those papers are eliminated, the courts will also look better. There will be less dust too.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: Most cases are adjourned without any substantial business being transacted. Then why do those advocates or litigants have to remain present in court?
We deliver justice but how is it that we are not able to put our own administration in order?
We deliver justice but how is it that we are not able to put our own administration in order?
Justice (retd.) Chavan: Medical personnel should not be called to courts.
We do not hold the police force in high regards. But then we must understand, they are a poorly manned force.
They have VIP duties, they have to investigate.
Then why burden them to appear in court?
We do not hold the police force in high regards. But then we must understand, they are a poorly manned force.
They have VIP duties, they have to investigate.
Then why burden them to appear in court?
Justice (retd.) Chavan: If there is a crime happened in the locality, will he investigate the matter or attend courts?
With e-courts a police officer can record his evidence virtually.
With e-courts a police officer can record his evidence virtually.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: I had the good fortune of never being an Advocate.
But I am aware that advocates have to wait in courts when their matters are listed.
But I am aware that advocates have to wait in courts when their matters are listed.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: But an advocate does not wait in the court at his own expense, it is at the litigants expense.
If he joins from his office, he can utilise the waiting period time by doing other work. The litigation cost will also reduce.
If he joins from his office, he can utilise the waiting period time by doing other work. The litigation cost will also reduce.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: The advocate can also make more money.
The adjournments which happen because Advocate is in another court will also reduce when they appear virtually.
The adjournments which happen because Advocate is in another court will also reduce when they appear virtually.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: The traffic courts in Delhi have managed to collect fines of Rs. 125 crores in one year.
It is because this is done virtually. Even the defaulters prefer paying the fine than bribing the cop. Because paying fine has become very convenient and fast.
It is because this is done virtually. Even the defaulters prefer paying the fine than bribing the cop. Because paying fine has become very convenient and fast.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: Initially there were 10 magistrates for traffic cases in Delhi, now there are only 3, so the other are freed to do other work.
Seeking an adjournment is also time consuming, so lawyers could exchange the applications virtually and save the judicial time.
Seeking an adjournment is also time consuming, so lawyers could exchange the applications virtually and save the judicial time.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: We are trying with virtual courts to ensure that more and more procedures can be done electronically so that judges only have to adjudicate on matters, other burden is reduced.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: I am also stressing on the environment aspect because Justice Patel is an environmentalist.
CJI SA Bobde is pushing for use of AI in virtual courts, so that facts will be readily available, the provisions of law and precedents will be readily available.
CJI SA Bobde is pushing for use of AI in virtual courts, so that facts will be readily available, the provisions of law and precedents will be readily available.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: Mind you, this is not a replacement for a judge. No case will be decided by the AI. This is only to assist the judges and lawyers to stay updated on the law while eliminating use of paper and physical hearing.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: We should all pray for, work towards virtual courts.
Justice Patel is in the forefront of virtual courts. We have been working on live streaming of courts. He was one of the first judges to give live access to his courts, by making his court link public.
Justice Patel is in the forefront of virtual courts. We have been working on live streaming of courts. He was one of the first judges to give live access to his courts, by making his court link public.
Justice (retd.) Chavan concludes his address.
Justice GS Patel begins his address.
Justice Patel: This is an issue of the moment, which we cannot ignore.
Back in the early days, Justice Chavan was Registrar General and I was practicing and even then he had a vision for the administration. That still continues.
Justice Patel: This is an issue of the moment, which we cannot ignore.
Back in the early days, Justice Chavan was Registrar General and I was practicing and even then he had a vision for the administration. That still continues.
Justice Patel: The start of 2020 was innocuous. We did not anticipate what was about to happen.
Then when the pandemic struck, everything that the judiciary was used to doing could not be done anymore.
Parties could not come to court.
Then when the pandemic struck, everything that the judiciary was used to doing could not be done anymore.
Parties could not come to court.
Justice Patel: The best thing that came out of the pandemic was the virtual courts which kicked in the ‘21st century’ of the court.
When I started virtual hearing, it was not live streaming. Live streaming is when something is being relayed on another platform simultaneously.
When I started virtual hearing, it was not live streaming. Live streaming is when something is being relayed on another platform simultaneously.
Justice Patel: I always allowed open access. That is something I have maintained since.
Is it possible for us in December 2020 to go back to the way we were in December 2019?
I don’t think it is possible, nor is it advisable.
Is it possible for us in December 2020 to go back to the way we were in December 2019?
I don’t think it is possible, nor is it advisable.
Justice Patel: Virtual courts are here to stay and we cannot make it go away.
There are several problems, but I will show with illustrations how my court has managed in this time.
There are several problems, but I will show with illustrations how my court has managed in this time.
Justice Patel: IF someone can show with empirical evidence that they are inefficient and more costly than physical courts, which I don’t think there is, virtual courts are here to stay.
Justice Patel: I also miss a top notch lawyer arguing in front of me physically, but that is a small price to pay.
Justice Patel: Let me make it clear, I am not suggesting that virtual court should be replacing physical hearing.
I am saying video conferencing as an option is here to stay and it should remain an option. A judge should be allowed to impose virtual hearing if he wants to.
I am saying video conferencing as an option is here to stay and it should remain an option. A judge should be allowed to impose virtual hearing if he wants to.
Justice Patel: Another thing I want to make clear is that e0filing and virtual hearing are two different things.
We can have e-filing and physical hearing, we can have e-filing and virtual hearing.
We can have e-filing and physical hearing, we can have e-filing and virtual hearing.
Justice Patel: But there is no need to go back to the physical paper and physcial hearing that we have been doing so far.
Justice Patel: Virtual courts have been cheaper for the litigants. Adv from different jurisdiction could appear.
During the lockdown I have conducted hearings in the same manner as I would have in physical set up.
During the lockdown I have conducted hearings in the same manner as I would have in physical set up.
Justice Patel: It is my opinion that we have been using online video conferencing platforms which are used for board room meetings. That is unacceptable.
We should have a software which is dedicated for Indian judiciary system. All courts should have onesoftware.
We should have a software which is dedicated for Indian judiciary system. All courts should have onesoftware.
Justice Patel: Another point I want to say here is that court room infrastructure, especially older courts like Bombay, Madras, Kolkata will have to change. And it will be expensive.
Justice Patel: Under no circumstances can I accept courts saying we do not have the infrastructure. Well, then get it.
Also the government cannot say that we do not have the knowledge of the system or that it is expensive. It is monstrous.
Also the government cannot say that we do not have the knowledge of the system or that it is expensive. It is monstrous.
Justice Patel: We are not using this system for video games! It is the opposite of that.
If we need bigger screens, with cameras and speakers, we will need them and it will be expensive.
If we need bigger screens, with cameras and speakers, we will need them and it will be expensive.
Justice Patel: Another issue is that advocates do not have resources. Well it is our job to provide a system which is easily accessible.
But then I do not know of a mobile phone plan without a data pack.
But then I do not know of a mobile phone plan without a data pack.
Justice Patel: I have seen in Gujarat, and Karnataka. Courts have gone virtual, they have gone back to physical.
And I know this because Justice Oka is a friend. Everything is happening on the dot! I do not see any flaw in virtual courts.
And I know this because Justice Oka is a friend. Everything is happening on the dot! I do not see any flaw in virtual courts.
Justice Patel: I do not understand some things happening in courts.
1. Re-digitization of physical pleadings. I do not understand this. A document is made on computer, it is printed and then scanned for digitising. It does not make any sense at all!
1. Re-digitization of physical pleadings. I do not understand this. A document is made on computer, it is printed and then scanned for digitising. It does not make any sense at all!
Justice Patel:
2. Demand for certified copies of the order makes no sense to me when the order is digitally signed now!
3. Using A4 papers both sides. There should be a standard filing protocol.
I read news that courts are issuing notice for A4 pleas. What for!
2. Demand for certified copies of the order makes no sense to me when the order is digitally signed now!
3. Using A4 papers both sides. There should be a standard filing protocol.
I read news that courts are issuing notice for A4 pleas. What for!
Justice Patel: The governments have been using A4 for 15 years now. They do not have any other paper.
A4 scanners are more common and work best. Fullscap scanner is expensive!
According to me every court has to be provided with A4 duplex printer and scanner.
A4 scanners are more common and work best. Fullscap scanner is expensive!
According to me every court has to be provided with A4 duplex printer and scanner.
Justice Patel: Another thing is every search interface of different courts is different. That is not user friendly at all.
A litigant or lawyer should be given a common interface. He should get judgments of any court through one window.
A litigant or lawyer should be given a common interface. He should get judgments of any court through one window.
Justice Patel: For what purpose should he keep checking all the websites for orders.
Justice Patel shares instances from his court on how he managed virtual hearings.
Justice Patel shares instances from his court on how he managed virtual hearings.
Justice Patel: We have 100 gb of drive space which is more than enough.
I also believe the judge must ensure that he trains his staff to manage technology or he himself is trained enough to manage.
I also believe the judge must ensure that he trains his staff to manage technology or he himself is trained enough to manage.
Justice Patel: Even in physical courts, I used to divide my board in time slots so that my court is not crowded. I have continued that in virtual courts.
Submission of documents virtually is in fact faster and will lead to faster disposal of cases.
Submission of documents virtually is in fact faster and will lead to faster disposal of cases.
Justice Patel: In my court, most lawyers know, they will not get an easy adjournment. A lawyer in my court appeared from a jungle of Tamil Nadu, I could hear him perfectly fine.
Lawyers seek for 4 weeks for filing affidavits, what for! You have a computer, steno.
Lawyers seek for 4 weeks for filing affidavits, what for! You have a computer, steno.
Justice Patel: Client stays far away? Client has a phone!
The pandemic is here to stay, the virtual courts are here to stay. We will have to adapt ourselves for it.
The pandemic is here to stay, the virtual courts are here to stay. We will have to adapt ourselves for it.
Justice Patel: E-courts will be difficult for criminal trials, accused speaking to his lawyer, while prosecution is cross examining him.
For civil courts, in my court we have started a video conferencing trial. The witness is in London and we have been following the SC protocol.
For civil courts, in my court we have started a video conferencing trial. The witness is in London and we have been following the SC protocol.
Justice Patel: My court clerk has just sent me statistics. About 1948 were listed before me, and about 940 cases were disposed off. This wouldn’t have been possible in physical courts.
This is not something exceptional, but this is just came in so I mentioned.
This is not something exceptional, but this is just came in so I mentioned.
Justice Patel concludes his address.
The question answer session begins.
First question is will AI predict an outcome of the case?
Justice (retd.) Chavan: AI is only to ensure that the judge and the lawyer are equipped with an up-to-date law. So it is not going to replace a judge’s mind.
First question is will AI predict an outcome of the case?
Justice (retd.) Chavan: AI is only to ensure that the judge and the lawyer are equipped with an up-to-date law. So it is not going to replace a judge’s mind.
Justice Patel adds: No one can predict looking at my previous judgments what an outcome will be on Monday morning. There are a lot of factors, including my morning breakfast!
So no, no outcome will be predicted.
So no, no outcome will be predicted.
Next question is senior advocates taking time just to delay hearing, will virtual courts help in that?
Justice Patel: Justice Chavan you take this question, you have the advantage of retirement.
Justice Patel: Justice Chavan you take this question, you have the advantage of retirement.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: Of course with virtual courts the litigants will not be in dark. With live streaming courts will be accessible so the lawyers and judges will have to conduct themselves.
Next question is on places in India not having virtual court system. For instance islands of Andaman and Nicobar who have to travel to Kolkata courts for hearings.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: Andaman has been facing problems because the region is declared technologically nonfeasible
Justice (retd.) Chavan: Andaman has been facing problems because the region is declared technologically nonfeasible
Justice Patel: There are regions in Central India and Central Maharashtra which are technologically non-feasible.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: You will be surprised judge, there is a region in Mumbai which is declared technologically non-feasible by BSNL - Dongri
Justice (retd.) Chavan: You will be surprised judge, there is a region in Mumbai which is declared technologically non-feasible by BSNL - Dongri
Justice Patel: That is non-feasible for other reasons!
All laugh.
All laugh.
Justice (retd.) Chavan: There are issues still, but we are trying to work on it.
A few more questions are asked on how trial will be conducted in courts.
Justice Patel: In a civil trial there is no issue at all. In UK cases are being conducted like that.
A few more questions are asked on how trial will be conducted in courts.
Justice Patel: In a civil trial there is no issue at all. In UK cases are being conducted like that.
Justice Patel: In my court, I have one scheduled. I had conducted one in 2014 also. Technically there is no problem. In a criminal case maybe, but in a civil case, definitely not!
Justice (retd.) Chavan agrees.
JF Ribeiro, chairman PCGT, shares his concluding remarks.
Justice (retd.) Chavan agrees.
JF Ribeiro, chairman PCGT, shares his concluding remarks.
Shailesh Gandhi givs the vote of thanks.
Session ends.
Session ends.
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