“Traditional atheism” is the position that there is no God.
So far from “very valid” a position is it to hold, it is so manifestly irrational and indefensible that it has been completely abandoned. Why do you *think* (almost) no one today attempts to PROVE there is no God?
“Atheism” has very nearly been abandoned as PHILOSOPHICAL POSITION—even as it has grown as an EXISTENTIAL STANCE. 99.9% of “atheists” these days no longer are confident they can DEMONSTRATE that there is no God.
Which is wise, since they CANNOT.
There are really only three or four arguments for atheism, and none of them go through.
1 The Argument to an Alternate Explanation of the Concept of God
FAILS: because offering an account of how how the concept of God might have come about other than there being a God doesn’t do *anything* to disprove there is a God.
2 The Argument to an Unnecessary Hypothesis
Laplace on God to Napoleon “Sire, I have no need of *that* hypothesis.”
FAILS: because God isn’t a hypothesis, and it isn’t clear you don’t need God as the ULTIMATE explainer. It’s irrelevant that you don’t “need” God to do science.
3 The Argument that “God” is Self-Contradictory
FAILS: because the argument rules out God, when God is defined in a self-contradictory way, but has never shown the God of classical theism to BE self-contradictory.
4 The Argument from Evil.
FAILS: Because while *emotionally* very strong, the case can never be established rationally, since it requires premises that require moral perfection and omniscience to establish.
Supplement: I found a good passage from in Alvin Plantinga last night about this.
I like it so much, I’ll share it again here:
As Plantinga points out, modern versions are more sophisticated (and do not forget the link between “sophisticated” and “sophistry”), but they really don’t have more force than “I can’t see any good reason God could have for permitting evil E, so He probably doesn’t have one."
“I, a finite, fallen, morally imperfect, non-omniscient human being, cannot see any good reason God, a morally perfect, all-knowing Being, could have for permitting evil E” doesn’t entail “so God probably has no good reason.”
N.B. The Evidentialist Argument—by far the most popular “atheistic” (really agnostic) argument today is NOT an argument that there is no God.
It is the argument that believe in God is not SUFFICIENTLY WARRANTED TO BE RATIONAL.
@lotuseaters_com It’s a premium podcast and I’m not a premium member, so I didn’t see the whole thing, but it looks like he’s also starting to bump into the Moral Argument for God.
Give him a few more years and we’ll see.
@lotuseaters_com On naturalism, one could claim a “thin” kind of moral objectivity, namely, that there are things that are naturally good for human beings, but one cannot capture NORMATIVITY.
People who laud things like “human well-being” have NOTHING to say to one who doesn’t care about that.
I have something on my mind. Two things which are connected, one from years ago and one recently.
Many of us are old enough to first have heard the term “diversity” applied to things like movies and TV. No matter what it was, you *had* to have one black character in it, in some minor role at least. This was the TOKEN black character. This happened sometime in the 80s or 90s.
All of us are familiar with the token black character. One of my friends at the time called this the “Unnecessary Negro” trope. Like a song I don’t like that nevertheless gets stuck in my head, that name has stuck with me.
When a judge has “skin in the game,” e.g. when he or she is called upon to decide a matter in which he or she is PERSONALLY IMPLICATED — it is his or her duty to RECUSE him- or herself from the case.
“Skin in the game” DISTORTS OBJECTIVE JUDGMENT.
So it isn’t TRUE in all cases to say “This affects me personally, so my judgment is more clear!”
In MANY cases, the opposite is true. A personal involvement DISTORTS clear and objective judgment.
If this CRT nonsense were true, it would follow that white people and men and ALL “oppressor groups” have DONE A HUGE FAVOR TO THE MARGINALIZED BY MARGINALIZING THEM—because THIS HAS MADE THEM VIRTUOUS.
It also follows, since oppressing someone BENEFITS THEM, WE SHOULD DO THAT.
Let me repeat that:
IF OPPRESSING PEOPLE MAKES THEM GOOD, THEN WE SHOULD KEEP DOING THAT, BECAUSE BY OPPRESSING PEOPLE WE ARE BENEFITTING THEM.
A half-truth. Human genetic differences are certainly real. The fact that black people have more melanin in their skin than white people is certainly biological — what’s conventional is any *exact* category which cuts off a part of human genetic space as “black” or “white.”
In other words, “black people” and “white people” are not NATURAL KINDS. They are just rough areas within human genetic space, enough so you can say “over here” and “over there.” They have irreducibly fuzzy margins.
Race is thus biological and “real” in a LOW RESOLUTION way. Enough, though, that we can associate race with some important biological facts — like greater risk of sickle cell anemia in black people.
What’s TRUE is that race (other than for a few things like that) ISN’T IMPORTANT
#2 and #3 are identical for some reason. Asking the same question twice ≠ asking two different questions. 🤷🏻♀️
As to #2/#3, for moral realism to be held RATIONALLY, there must be a sufficient ground-reason for moral truths & this would be something equivalent to the Platonic Good. But if there is something equivalent to the Good (the Ṛta, the Tao, the Λόγος, etc.), this will be θεῖος.