Thread by @UR_Ninja

Live coverage of the Derek Chauvin Trial starts momentarily in Minneapolis #DerekChauvinTrial
twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1…

Judge Cahill brings in the jury and says they need to do a non-broadcasted motion, however it will be on the record and the press in the courtroom can remain.

Court is back from motion. Dr. Lindsey Thomas is the first witness on the stand today, she is a witness for the state.

Thomas is questioned by Blackwell, she says she is a forensic pathologist, and that is where medical and legal overlap--medical and legal death investigation.

The state stature says it's necessary to report to the medical examiner about suspicious deaths.

In MN the medical examiner is a forensic pathologist, and is appointed for each county, so they are an official.

In hospitals there can be minor autopsies done for deaths by natural causes, but full autopsies are done by medical examiners.

Medicals examiners want to first learn everything about the person: who they know, their family, their environment, their past health records, etc. Then they learn about if they were complaining of anything or reported anything before their death.

They then take cultures from the body and look under a microscope and do tests. The investigators who go to the crime scene share information to the medical examiner, same with anyone who was on the scene such as paramedics, police, etc.

A terminal event is the time their death happened and what situation the person was in when they died.

Dr. Thomas shares that the reports done after the autopsy are the death certificate and the autopsy report. She shares that she is retired now, but she worked in Hennepin County, as well as seven others. She has 37 years of experience.

Dr. Thomas says she has done 5,000 autopsies on her own, and then helped with 100s or about 1,000 additional.

She shares her licenses, which she has in multiple states. She has also been a member of many organizations and been on the board of the MN Coroners' and Medical Examiners' Association.

She taught middle school students up to college, and also shared her expertise with law enforcement and other agencies who may seek her help. She has also been an expert witness on the stand about 100 times.

Dr. Thomas says the state reached out to her to be a witness and that she is not getting paid.

To prep for the witness stand, Dr. Thomas looked at medical records from Floyd's past and the one from the Hennepin County Medical Center where he was pronounced dead. She also reviewed videos and other records.

She shares that she knows Dr. Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner who did Floyd's autopsy. She says they are friends and she helped with his training in his formative years.

Blackwell puts Floyd's death certificate on the screen. Dr. Thomas says she agrees with Dr. Baker's findings. She believes Floyd's asphyxia and cardiac pulmonary arrest (not a heart attack) caused his death. She adds it was because of police restraint and compression of his neck.

Dr. Thomas says that in her opinion, the activities of the law enforcement officers caused Floyd's death.

Dr. Thomas says what is unique about this case was all of the video footage of Floyd's death. She explains the difference between the cause and mechanism of death. Cause is what happened, and mechanism is what happens in the body from that cause.

Dr. Thomas says the position Floyd was in made it impossible for him to get sufficient air in his lungs. She says there has to be adequate air exchange with enough coming out and going in.

She says if someone is smothered, strangled, inhaled a hotdog, or has pneumonia, they aren't able to get enough air in their lungs. Or it could happen if the environment has too much CO2. Or if the lungs are unable to expand.

She brings up sleep apnea or snoring, which means the hypopharynx collapses.

The autopsy ruled out any lung disease. It ruled out injury to the neck as in broken bones. It ruled out a brain aneurysm. It also ruled out a heart attack.

Dr. Thomas says there were so many videos that struck her. She says the body-worn camera videos and the Cup Foods videos were very instructive.

Blackwell asks how the videos helped Dr. Thomas decide on a cause. She says what she observed from all of these videos was that it was not a sudden death.

Dr. Thomas shares that it was also not a fentanyl overdose because he wasn't sleepy or nodding off.

The "bellows function" is when you take in a deep breath, your rib cage expands and forces the lungs to open up. When someone is intubated, that forces air in.

Dr. Thomas shares how Floyd's position prevented the bellows function from happening. Floyd's chest was compressed in that position.

She shares that for 9 minutes Floyd was having difficulty breathing. Over time in the videos, she says, she could tell that Floyd was having a harder and harder time breathing. Then he eventually stopped talking and moving.

Dr. Thomas explains what an anoxic reflex or anoxic seizure is, when the heart stops and there isn't enough blood in the brain and the body involuntarily twitches.

Blackwell asks what the purpose of the contributing conditions section is on the death certificate. Dr. Thomas views it as a way to help with future medical research, however those conditions did not directly cause the death.

Dr. Thomas talks about what a death caused by methamphetamine would be, she says it would be sudden or a full-on seizure. She says Floyd's death was not from meth. She does say Floyd had a small amount in his system.

She says that underlying conditions are necessary when there are layers of situations, but for Floyd's case they aren't necessary.

Blackwell asks if there are physical findings during an autopsy that could show low oxygen. She says no, but there are physical findings that show a cause that lead to low oxygen or asphyxia.

Dr. Thomas says in the videos she saw Floyd being subdued in the prone position, and that he appeared to be trying to push up from the pavement to breathe. She says Floyd had scrapes on his right hand knuckles and cuts from the handcuffs.

The jury is handed packets of photographs of the autopsy. The photographs will not be broadcast.

Dr. Thomas describes a picture of Floyd's face from the autopsy. She says it shows the left side of his face was scraped. She says it is clear the left side of his face was in contact with a rough surface.

She describes a photo of Floyd's left hand, on the base of his hand on his wrist there is some red and pale marks consistent with handcuff marks. Some white material of dry skin where the handcuffs rubbed and roughed up his skin.

The right hand knuckles have scraped-off skin, which Dr. Thomas says is from Floyd trying to lift his abdomen up to breathe. The autopsy packets are put away for now.

Blackwell asks if the autopsy photographs were conclusive, Dr. Thomas says not on their own, but with the videos. She says Floyd would not have died that night if it wasn't for law enforcement.

Dr. Thomas says there were physiological stress signs in Floyd. She explains it by sharing an example of when a parent can't find their children in a store, and the parent is stressed out and panicked, but then they find the children and their body calms down.

However, she says that for Floyd it lasted 9 minutes and he wasn't able to calm down because the fear and panic was ongoing.

She says that the stress didn't cause his death, and reiterates that the subdual and compression by law enforcement preventing him from breathing was.

Exhibit 194 is a section of the press release sent out by Hennepin County where it states that the manner of death was "homicide." Next to "How injury occurred" it says from "cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)."

Nelson objects to Blackwell wanting to submit a document that Hennepin County uses when determining the manner of death. There is now a 20-minute break.

Actually Nelson is speaking right now. He says it would confuse the jury about the different definitions about homicide--the medical and legal differences. The document is agreed by all parties to be submitted as a demonstrative.

Now a 20-minute break is happening.

Blackwell resumes questioning. He goes right back to speaking about manner of death.

Dr. Thomas explains what the manner of death of homicide means, she says it rules out an overdose.

Homicide in it's broad sense (medical definition) means death at the hands of another.

The guideline for naming manner of death is read aloud, in part, by Dr. Thomas. It states that naming the death as a homicide does not prove intent to kill.

Blackwell moves onto studies about the prone restraint and how it can effect breathing. He brings up some studies that have been done in controlled settings, which attempt to show that it's safe to be restrained with weight on your back in the prone position.

Dr. Thomas shares that the studies don't relate to the real world because the volunteers in the study know what they are getting into, and can say they want to stop at any time. The volunteers are also mostly young and healthy.

They're also put on a gymnastics mat when in prone position, not squished between a person and the hard ground. And Dr. Thomas says the length was not as long as Floyd was in the position for. "It bears no resemblance to what Mr. Floyd experienced."

Blackwell is done questioning. Nelson is now in cross-examination.

He asks her about what being a forensic pathologist is. He has her confirm that she has to wear many hats and that she may come across conditions in autopsies that she hasn't seen before.

He asks if she saw all of the witness interviews, she says probably not all of them.

Nelson follows up on some of her conclusions. He brings up a term used in Dr. Baker's autopsy: "complicating." Dr. Thomas says it can be used in lots of different ways, in this setting it can mean both things were present--law enforcement actions and not enough breath.

Nelson asks if doctors disagree sometimes, she says yes. He says that Dr. Baker could have a different definition of "complicated," which she agrees.

Nelson asks about Floyd's heart. Dr. Thomas says it was slightly enlarged. Nelson brings up two studies that can help determine if the heart is enlarged.

Nelson asks about one specific study which states the average heart size is "profoundly" smaller than Floyd's heart. Dr. Thomas says she wouldn't use just the average.

Nelson asks about the cause of a large heart, and Dr. Thomas says one main cause is high blood pressure. Nelson has her confirm that from looking at his medical records, Floyd did have high blood pressure, she says yes.

Nelson asks Dr. Thomas about proximal and distal narrowing. Proximal narrowing can narrow more than if it was distal. Proximal is closer to the heart.

Nelson asks about the conduction of the heart, she says there are electrical impulses flowing through the heart.

If the conduction is impaired, it can cause a heart arrhythmia, which could cause sudden death.

Nelson asks if a person is exerting themself, if the heart needs more blood and more oxygen, she says yes.

Nelson asks about the physiological stress, and asks if that creates adrenaline, she says yes.

Nelson asks a hypothetical, he says if there were no police and no drugs, but Dr. Thomas found Floyd in the same condition in his apartment, what should would rule the cause of death. She says she would probably rule it from his high blood pressure.

Nelson asks about the abrasions. He says "you would agree they were in a left-to-right pattern?" She asks what that means, if Nelson means from more excessive on the right side? Nelson says the movement of the handcuffs, she says she didn't focus on that.

Nelson asks about asphyxiation, and almost used a hypothetical of him strangling Dr. Thomas, but stopped himself and said if he strangled a person.

Nelson brings up controlled substances and asks if they can cause the lowering of oxygen getting to the lungs. Dr. Thomas says they can eventually.

Nelson asks about the studies Blackwell brought up. He asks if she knows a specific study out of Canada. She says yes.

The study looks at real police-citizen interactions. Nelson says in the 3,000 studies, there were no deaths. He asks what Dr. Thomas' thoughts are, and she says how it's amazing because that is not relative to real life in the U.S. and what she and other medical examiners see.

Nelson asks if before determining a death is caused by low oxygen, that you need to first take out any other causes possible causes. Dr. Thomas says she doesn't understand the question.

Nelson asks if being in the prone position is inherently dangerous. She says no. He then says chiropractors and massage therapists put people in the prone position.

He then asks if someone is in the prone position on pavement is inherently dangerous. She says no, not if they can breathe. Nelson says if I'm in Florida by the pool laying on my stomach on pavement, that's not dangerous, correct?

Nelson has Dr. Thomas confirm that there was no bruising on Floyd's neck or back. She confirms.

Nelson asks about manual strangulation cases, and asks about bruising in those cases. Dr. Thomas says frequently, but not always.

Nelson asks about objective evidence about pressure on Floyd's back. Dr. Thomas says there wasn't any.

Nelson asks about lack of oxygen to the brain and lists symptoms, which Dr. Thomas agree those are symptoms. Nelson then asks if Floyd seemed confused during the 9 minutes.

Nelson asks if Floyd was breathing during the 9 minutes. Dr. Thomas says not adequately. Nelson asks if Floyd was talking for about the first 5 minutes, Dr. Thomas says words were coming out.

Nelson asks if Floyd was progressively suffering from whole body hypoxia, the brain would be affected. Dr. Thomas agrees.

Nelson asks if the brain is the first to show signs, Dr. Thomas agrees.

Nelson asks about the 90% stenosis in his right artery. Dr. Thomas agrees it existed and made it hard for blood to flow adequately. Nelson asks if meth and adrenaline could also contribute to heart trying to pump faster. Dr. Thomas agrees.

Nelson asks about Floyd's drug use. Asks if Dr. Thomas has heard about taking drugs intrarectally, she says yes. Nelson asks if saline in the ambulance and at the hospital if that could dilute the amount in his system. She says that's a possibly theory.

Nelson asks if fentanyl contributes to slowing breathing, Dr. Thomas says yes.

Nelson asks about methamphetamine and that it can increase heart rate. She says yes.

Nelson asks if Dr. Thomas knew about the drugs found in the vehicles and the make-up of them. She says yes. Nelson asked if she say a metabolic response to meth, she said no.

Nelson asks if Dr. Thomas would consider it an overdose if hypothetically there was no law enforcement presence, no heart problems, just the same amount of drugs found in Floyd's system. She says if drugs were the only aspect present, then she would consider it a cause.

Blackwell is back on the stand. He asks about the hypotheticals Nelson was asking, and asks if it makes any sense to take out the facts of the case to consider cause of death, she says no, it doesn't make sense.

Blackwell begins to liken it to asking Mrs. Lincoln if John Wilkes Booth wasn't there if Lincoln would have died. Nelson objects and Judge agrees.

Dr. Thomas says fentanyl overdose symptoms are slowing of the respiratory rate in a gradual, peaceful way, and adds that it is a pain medication. She reiterates that she doesn't believe Floyd died from an overdose.

Blackwell brings up the heart questions Nelson asked about. Blackwell asks about what causes the conditions that Nelson was asking about. Dr. Thomas says it was not caused from a heart attack or a sudden heart failure.

Blackwell brought up how Dr. Baker just took one photograph of Floyd's heart because he didn't see any abnormalities that would be the cause of death.

Blackwell asks about Nelson's questions about Floyd's brain. Nelson comes back for re-cross.

Nelson asks if a person can keep breathing after a person's heart stops. He asks about methamphetamine. He asks if Dr. Thomas would prescribe meth to someone with a narrow artery. She says she has no opinion.

Dr. Thomas said a person could possibly breathe a bit longer after their heart stops. She is excused from the stand.

Lunch break until 1:30 CDT. Thanks for tuning in to our coverage.

Back from break. Second witness is Dr. Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner.

He is the chief medical examiner, and did the first autopsy on George Floyd. He is explaining his previous experience where he was in the Air Force and did medical work with them.

Dr. Baker was the president of the National Association of Medical Examiners.

Dr. Baker learned about Floyd that he went unconscious during a police interaction, however he did not view any video footage or learn more prior to the autopsy because he wanted to go in objectively.

He explains the process of doing an autopsy. At first he goes over the external and takes pictures. Goes through clothing, pockets, anything under nails, etc. Then takes clothes off, looks thoroughly and takes more pictures.

Then they clean the body thoroughly so nothing from the outside of his body would get inside. Then they make incisions and look around and photograph. Then take out organs and brain.

For this case he also cut incisions around the handcuff marks and under other areas to see if bruising occurred because the skin may not show bruising if something only recently happened.

Within a "robust data set," Dr. Baker dictated in high detail about every mark on the person's body. He also provides the many photographs.

Blackwell approaches Dr. Baker with the autopsy photographs.

Dr. Baker confirms those are the autopsy photos and that he took them. Then the jury receives the photos.

Blackwell asks about injuries to Floyd's back. Dr. Baker says no. Blackwell asks about injuries to his face. Dr. Baker says yes.

Dr. Baker says there is a scrape on Floyd's left forehead and cheek and also on his left eyelid. Dr. Baker says the injuries are consistent with being pinned on the pavement the night before.

Dr. Baker describes other injuries to Floyd's face such as a tear on the right side of his lip and bruising on his nose.

On Floyd's right shoulder there was bruising and scraping. On the left shoulder there were red marks.

The hands were examined and photographed extensively. Dr. Baker says there were typical handcuff marks.

His right pointer and middle finger knuckles were scraped. Dr. Baker said it could have been from an altercation or from the pavement.

Dr. Baker said he didn't take a picture of Floyd's fully intact heart because it looked normal. He said it was slightly enlarged, but the weight wouldn't show in the picture.

Dr. Baker says for processing the heart, he first weighed it, then began making incisions. He checks if everything is in the right place, checks for narrowing or blockages.

He made slices into the heart muscle to check for any diseases, they he looked at the valves, checked for calcification. Floyd didn't have any damage to his heart muscle.

An autopsy photo of Floyd's arteries is looked at. Dr. Baker explains how two of his arteries were at about 75% narrowing. The plaque builds up and narrows the arteries. The third (right coronary artery) was also significantly narrowed.

Dr. Baker explains what stable plaque or acute plaque is, and he says stable has been there for a while, but acute can come on quick.

Dr. Baker says if a person dies quickly from a coronary artery event, he wouldn't expect the heart muscle to look abnormal because it wouldn't have had time to change.

Dr. Baker reiterates he didn't see any damage to his heart muscle. He also didn't see any damage to Floyd's brain.

Dr. Baker said other than fluid in the lungs, Floyd's lungs looked normal.

Pulmonary edema is fluid in the lungs, Baker says he couldn't pin point the cause of that. He also described pulmonary emboli to the court. No pulmonary emboli were found in Floyd.

Dr. Baker speaks about the toxicology panels, which were sent to NMS.

Dr. Baker is asked about the stomach contents of Floyd, some of which looked like bread. He didn't see anything that resembled pills.

Dr. Baker didn't know Floyd had recently had covid prior to conducting the autopsy.

Dr. Baker talks about how Floyd had sick cell trait, but not sickle cell disease. He said he wouldn't have known that but when he put his tissue in formaldehyde cells began to sickle, then he asked around about any blood samples taken. It didn't relate to his death.

Dr. Baker explains that death certificates are done by physicians unless it is an unnatural death. Death certificates are fully certified by the state.

As a medical examiner, Dr. Baker has to write in homicide if anyone else had any part in the person's death, even though it is not a legal ruling.

Blackwell asks if an overdose would be ruled as an accidental death, which Dr. Baker says yes, or as a suicide.

For an undetermined death, Dr. Baker gives an example of finding someone who died on their own, who may have committed suicide but there is no evidence to prove that.

Dr. Baker explains how the physiology of Floyd was that the coronary arteries were narrow and he was also hypertensive, so he already needed extra pumping of the heart. Baker says that the pressure on Floyd's body on May 25 was too much for his body.

Dr. Baker didn't believe that drugs in Floyd's system were direct causes of his death.

Blackwell is done with direct examination. Nelson is up next.

10-minute break before Nelson cross-examines.

Court is back. Nelson is at the stand.

Nelson has "some follow-up questions," which he tends to say each time before cross-examining. Nelson asks if the death report is thick, and in a lighthearted moment, Dr. Baker responded that they are paperless in the medical examiner's office.

Nelson asks what information contributed to the report, he asks if Baker has seen all of Floyd's medical records. Baker said he's seen a lot, but not all because not all was necessary.

Nelson now asks Dr. Baker what "complication" means, just as he asked Dr. Thomas. Dr. Baker said that multiple things can be happening at once, or something can cause something else.

Dr. Baker explains what was written under the contributing factors. He put heart disease, hypertension, and Floyd's drug use. Nelson asks if that means Dr. Baker believes those factors contributed to Floyd's death, which he agrees.

Dr. Baker reiterates that he tries to go into an autopsy as objectively as possible, and didn't watch any video footage prior to doing the autopsy.

Nelson asks if Dr. Baker took special attention to Floyd's neck because he learned that there may have been damage there. Dr. Baker says yes.

Nelson asks about Floyd's heart. He confirms the weight of Floyd's heart. Nelson asks about the specific heart report that he asked Dr. Thomas. Dr. Baker says he does know about that, but he does not use that report. He uses the Mayo Clinic one.

Dr. Baker says that Floyd's heart was on the high-end of the size of a normal heart for someone of his size.

Nelson has Dr. Baker confirm Floyd was hypertensive. Nelson asks if Dr. Baker can speak further on Floyd's coronary arteries.

Dr. Baker says he and medical examiners view 75% or higher narrowing as an amount that can cause sudden death.

Dr. Baker says there are many ways a person can die from low oxygen into the heart.

Dr. Baker is asked to explain the conduction of the heart again, which he says he can only do so broadly because he is not an expert.

Nelson asks about the methamphetamine found in Floyd's system. He asks if it can cause narrowing of the heart. Dr. Baker says he doesn't know, but that meth is not good for the heart in general.

Nelson asks about exertion and if that makes the heart pump more, Dr. Baker agrees. Nelson goes over the details: Floyd's heart is larger than average, his heart problems, period of exertion, drug use.

Dr. Baker shares that after the autopsy he did watch some videos. Nelson asks him if he has ruled previously that someone's death was because of a large heart, he says yes.

Nelson asks about abrasions on Floyd. Dr. Baker says they appear to be fresh, but there is no way to calculate precisely the timing.

Nelson asks if Dr. Baker agrees if the prone position is not inherently dangerous. (missed the response due to connection issues from the court).

Dr. Baker says he has probably done about 3,000 autopsies. Dr. Baker shares that asphyxia is a common cause of death in his work.

Nelson asks about specifics on types of asphyxiation. Dr. Baker used the term "neck restraint" on the top of the death certificate.

Dr. Baker described how he believes that Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's neck/upper back. Nelson asks about his carotid artery, Dr. Baker says he does not know, but that there is the other carotid on the other side, so it may not matter.

Nelson asks about bruising with manual strangulation. Dr. Baker goes into detail about what he sees on decedents who were strangled.

Nelson asks about the knee--how it's hard and round. Also asks about the shin--how it's hard and somewhat triangular. He asks if Dr. Baker would expect to see bruising, he said he doesn't. He reiterates that he didn't find bruises on Floyd's back.

Nelson asks about hypoxic deaths. Dr. Baker says it depends on the type of mechanism. Nelson says regardless of the mechanism, would Dr. Baker generally see certain symptoms? Dr. Baker says he can't say because symptoms happen on alive people.

Nelson is asking Dr. Baker if he asks for advice or help if he runs into something during an autopsy that he is not an expert in, Dr. Baker says yes.

Nelson is asking about different types of strangulation, Blackwell objects for relevance, Judge agrees and sustains. Nelson moves on.

Dr. Baker's face seems slightly red. Nelson continues to ask him questions that Dr. Baker responds by saying Nelson should ask a pulmonologist or toxicologist.

Nelson asks if Dr. Baker has ruled deaths as overdoses in the past, which he says he has.

Nelson says he wants to review Dr. Baker's involvement in this case. Dr. Baker says he did the autopsy on May 26. Dr. Baker told the prosecution a day or so later that he did not find physiological evidence for asphyxia.

Nelson asks what date Dr. Baker saw the toxicology report. He says June 1. Nelson asks if he spoke with the prosecution about the toxicology report.

Dr. Baker says fentanyl can cause pulmonary edema.

Nelson asks if Dr. Baker would have certified Floyd's death as a fentanyl overdose if that was the only finding, Dr. Baker says yes.

Dr. Baker says that he doesn't view things in a "but for" way because he is a medical examiner. He says that may be how legal people think.

Nelson asks if the medical and legal definitions for "homicide" are different. Dr. Baker says yes, and that he doesn't know the legal one, that they are different worlds.

Nelson asks about the placement of Mr. Chauvin's knee, he asks if that would anatomically cut off Floyd's airway, which Dr. Baker says no, not in his opinion.

Nelson questions Dr. Baker about previous testimony in front of a grand jury. Dr. Baker says he doesn't remember exactly what he said, so Nelson hands him a copy of it.

Dr. Baker shares again that Floyd had narrowing of his arteries and a larger than average heart of someone his size. Nelson asks how meth can affect his heart, Dr. Baker says he is not an expert on that, but that it is probably not good.

Dr. Baker says when he was questioned previously, he brought up many times that other experts should answer questions about chest and lungs.

Nelson is finished. Blackwell re-directs. He brings up the cause of death in the death certificate. He asks what the cause of death was for Floyd. Dr. Baker reads the cause out loud and says he still agrees.

"How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)."

Blackwell is done questioning. Nelson doesn't re-cross. 15-minute break.

Thank you all for tuning in to our extensive coverage. Today is also #NationalUnicornDay🦄💜💛We appreciate ya'll and your love and support. We couldn't do this work without you, so if you're able, you can give us a tax-deductible donation: unicornriot.ninja/donate/

Court is back. Judge Cahill just said the next witness would another medical person, and since that would go past 5 p.m. he decided to cut the day short, so court is over for the day.

Court will continue at 9 a.m. on Monday, April 12, 2021 with some legal motions. Then the jury will come in at about 9:30 a.m. Thanks again for tuning in.

⏫Thread from the proceedings in today's #DerekChauvinTrial above⏫

⏬See our live streams and summaries of the court happenings in link below⏬
unicornriot.ninja/derek-chauvin-…