Thread by @LouRaguse

This could be the most critical day of the Derek Chauvin trial as Medical Examiner Andrew Baker is set to testify. Here is 4/9/21 thread.

kare11.com/article/news/l…

The state is first calling another forensic pathologist, Dr. Lindsey Thomas. Here is the youtube link:

Dr. Thomas is very experienced and has done many autopsies here in Minnesota. At one point she was with the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Officer and helped train the current M.E., Dr. Andrew Baker.

And when I say Dr. Thomas is experienced -- she is also very experienced in this setting. Testifying in trials -- already turned toward the jury and addressing them directly.

Dr. Thomas testifies that she has performed about 5,000 autopsies. When you listen to other witnesses, sometimes an attorney will ask "how many have you attended" which is different than performed.

Dr. Thomas, like Dr. Tobin yesterday, specifies that the state reached out to her -- but she did not accept payment for her analysis and testimony.

By the way, expert witnesses are usually paid and that would be completely normal if she was paid.

Dr. Thomas testifies that Dr. Baker is her friend. She played a role in his training.

She reviewed his work.

And she says the info to review for this case was unprecedented.

"I've never had a case like this that had such thorough documentation of the terminal events."

Dr. Thomas testifies that she agrees with Dr. Baker's "manner of death." And "Cause of death."

And she says the primary mechanism of death was asphyxia, or low oxygen.

Dr. Thomas says the law enforcement restraint is what led to the asphyxia.

She says the autopsy itself did not tell her the cause and manner of death. She needed the videos to get to that point.

Dr. Thomas is shaping up to be a key local expert for the prosecution, with her opinions sounding fully compatible with Dr. Tobin yesterday -- and presenting so far that her view is compatible with Dr. Baker's.

I wonder if Nelson will drive a wedge during cross examination.

Prosecutor Jerry Blackwell asks about how videos helped.

Dr. Thomas: The body camera videos were very instructive.. Cup Foods video to show how Floyd acted before interaction with police. Bystander videos important too.

Dr. Thomas felt comfortable ruling out "sudden death" and ruling out fentanyl overdose.

I notice Dr. Thomas keeps repeating "subdual, restraint and compression" which are Dr. Baker's words.

Perhaps they are using Dr. Thomas to flesh out (rather than disagree) with Dr. Baker's findings. To show the jury Dr. Baker's conclusion does not contradict their theory.

Dr. Thomas testifies that she reviewed toxicology.

Meth? "It was there. Not particularly high." Not significant in cause of death, she says.

Dr. Thomas says ruled out drug overdose. Opinion held to a "reasonable degree of medical certainty"

Blackwell did not specifically ask Dr. Thomas the same question regarding level of fentanyl as he did about the level of meth.

OK. I was wondering how this would go with autopsy photos. Judge Cahill just said they will be showing photos to the jurors but not broadcasting the photos on TV.

I wish we could have heard the questioning of a juror this morning. Here's from the two pool reporters in the courtroom. The pulled in the juror, who is a white woman in her 40s or 50s.. and Judge Cahill said "there were some concerns expressed" about outside influences...

The juror said she turned on a TV, briefly saw some coverage, then turned off TV.

Then Cahill asked if she'd had any contact with family.

She said her mother or mother in law texted her and said "it looks like it was a bad day" or "it looks like it was a bad day for the defense

There are two pool reporters and their notes are not identical.

Cahill then asked "any book deal in the works?"

And the woman appeared flustered or surprised and said "No, i don't know how this case is going to go"

The pool reporters don't seem certain how much Cahill was kidding about the book deal comment.

If you've noticed, it's sometimes hard to tell if he's joking.

The lawyers and judge note that the woman seemed "surprised" when asked these questions.

The lawyers made no motions to excuse the juror or anything like that.

"There was a report there might have been some outside media. I find that she was genuinely surprised. There was not inappropriate conduct by her or from anyone on the outside," -- this is the quote of Judge Cahill from one pool reporter.

Nelson in cross now -- getting to his key points -- the autopsy didn't show the telltale signs of asphyxia.

Dr. Thomas is responding with "well it really depends on the mechanism of asphyxia"

Kind of strange moment --
Nelson asks about 3000 prone position arrests --- "in those 3000 or so there were no deaths that occurred?"

Dr. Thomas: Isn't that a-mazing? ... It utterly baffles me... i don't know what's different.

Nelson: Objection, unresponsive.

Nelson continues -- getting Dr. Thomas to agree the prone position is not inherently dangerous.

She tries to stipulate that she means that, without external factors (like officers kneeling)

Dr. Thomas seems hesitant to say anything that would be interpreted as helpful to the defense.

Nelson asks hypothetical about drug levels found in body same as Floyd... would you certify as an overdose?

"In the absence of any of these other realities, Yes, i could consider that to be an overdose."

Then in re-direct, prosecutor Jerry Blackwell jumps in with a hypothetical that sounded like it was going to be what if John Wilkes Booth was removed from the Lincoln assassination...
But Nelson objected and Judge Cahill ruled it argumentative.

Dr. Andrew Baker is now testifying. This is critical for both sides.

Baker is being questioned by Prosecutor Jerry Blackwell.

Baker testifies that George Floyd's heart was slightly enlarged by weight. But no evidence of prior heart damage.

The jury is looking at autopsy photos. Dr. Baker is describing plaque buildup -- showing arteries "pretty severely narrowed."

Dr. Baker says he would defer to a pulmonologist for opinions on lung volumes and oxygen reserves.

Dr. Tobin is a pulmonologist.

Blackwell concentrated on the fact Dr. Baker ruled Floyd's death a homicide. Already -- the prosecution is finished questioning Dr. Baker.

Eric Nelson has begun cross-examination.

Gets Baker to say that the "other significant factors" he listed on the death certificate means that "heart disease, history of hypertension, drugs in system" played a role in Floyd's death, in Baker's opinion.

Baker said he watch the viral video later in the day after the autopsy and didn't release the body until the next morning, so if he saw anything that would have changed his mind he would have added it.

He purposely did the autopsy before watching the video.

Nelson: Do you agree the prone position is not inherently dangerous?

Baker: As far as I know, based on medical literature, that is true.

Nelson is now getting into drugs.

ER: Have you certified deaths of overdose?

AB: Hundreds of times a year

ER: Where fentanyl is similar to Floyd?

AB: Yes

ER: Where it's lower?

AB: Yes.

ER: Higher?

AB: Yes.

Dr. Baker suggested he did not remember his comments to the Hennepin County prosecutors the same way they noted them in their report.

Dr. Baker said he might have ruled George Floyd's death an overdose if found in his state in a locked room where other external factors don't exist.

In that last bit of questioning, Nelson was trying to get at that Dr. Baker would have consulted a pulmonologist if he felt it could have been asphyxia.