Thread by @EveryAustralian

NDIA CEO Martin Hoffman, #NDIS Minister Linda Reynolds, @FPDNAus, @AfdoOffice, @inclusionoz, John Walsh AM are appearing before the #NDISJSC today from 9am. #HandsOffOurNDIS
Tune in from aph.gov.au/Watch_Read_Lis…
THREAD

First up at the #NDISJSC is @dameadvocate. He is outlining @FPDNAus' 10-point-plan for the implementation of the NDIS in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Communities: fpdn.org.au/ten-priorities…

There has been no specific testing with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people with disability in the independent assessment pilot that we know of. - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

The transparency of the trials for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people with disability is non-existent. We have an ongoing frustration with our relationship with the NDIA. We don't know who represents the views of ATSI PWD in the Agency - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

"Well if set up a committee for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people with disability we'd have to do that for everybody" - NDIA. Well what's wrong with that? - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

https://twitter.com/FPDNAus/status/1394432556443996161

We have no confidence whatsoever that the panel have any experience with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people with disability. - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

https://twitter.com/FPDNAus/status/1394433949024210947

It's difficult to think of any more disadvantaged people than Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people with disability. There are very high rates of disability. This is not a fringe issue. There should be as many as 60,000 ATSI PWD accessing the #NDIS - @FPDNAus #NDISJSC

To get fair and equitable access, employ local first nations people who understand disability. Use @NACCHOAustralia's, other orgs. - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

Ask a bunch of questions about my private life? Last time that happened Aunt down the road had her child removed - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

What we lack is someone to assist getting through the first door. We need community connectors all over the country. You really need to understand the lived experience. Aboriginal community connector models get good results. - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

One community wanted a wheelchair accessible vehicle to go to the next town. They didn't necessarily want services - often it's a resource issue. - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

There has not been any direct consultation with @FPDNAus about independent assessments - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

We know what will happen. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people with disability and their families will just disengage. They will yarn and say "Nah that's a whitefella system. It's not for us." It will increase inequality. - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

I would like to know how many people with disability in regional and remote communities have taken part in the trial - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

There's already a serious overrepresentation of young people in out of home care systems in all jurisdictions. If you're not well informed about why you'll rush to judgement. It's a consequence of poverty and lacking supports. - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

Well-meaning whitefella flys in, gets out his clipboard, the questionnaire is totally inappropriate, English may be fourth language - then the person doesn't get support. It already happens. - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

If they're not talking to us, or NACCHOs, or Indigenous Health Aus, I don't know where they're getting their advice on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people with disability from. We want to see it work. We want to consult. Our ideas have merit - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

We talk with @NACCHOAustralia regularly. They have the footprint. We bring disability rights and understanding. They have connectedness. We have a strategy in mind there - we need consultation with the NDIA. - @FPDNAus #NDIS #NDISJSC

That's it for - @FPDNAus - @AfdoOffice next up after short break. #NDIS #NDISJSC

We fully support the NDIS, it makes such a difference to people with disability and their families. But the trust between the sector and senior management at the NDIA has been eroded. everyaustraliancounts.com.au/ndis-engagemen… - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

We completely reject that the scheme is 'unsustainable'. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

Rosie Ann Fulton has spent almost 60% of her life in detention. Since joining the NDIS she has culturally safe support. No jail, no drinking, no hospitalisations, no court, no violence. This is what's at stake. Reasonable and necessary support - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

We have a rising concern about devaluing people with disability in government policy. People on the margins of society. A tightening of eligibility leading to less supports in the DSP - same model here. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

The independent assessment model in the Tune review is not the same as the model being proposed. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

It's great the Minister announced a pause. But the NDIA is still going ahead. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

The NDIA have a cost-cutting taskforce in place right now. Cutting costs of plans, cutting access. This is not what the NDIS is about. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

There is nothing anywhere that justifies the use of the tools in the proposed ways. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

You wouldn't use a speech pathologist to administer an assessment tool for a person with a spinal cord injury - #NDISJSC Chair Kevin Andrews MP #NDIS

The current approach is square peg, round hole. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

If you administer a Vineland on a Wednesday when someone's having a good day - they could come out as having no intellectual disability. On a bad day - it could be completely different. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

.@Jordonsteele says the committee have received today answers to Questions on Notice from the NDIA on 'high-fuctioning' vs 'low-functioning'

The NDIA and NDIS Minister have now started using the term "affordability" instead of "sustainability" - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

Why do you believe the NDIA are 'deliberately misleading' people on the Tune review and Productivity Commission report? @SenCarolBrown #NDIS #NDISJSC

We are a wealthy country. We don't need to be penny-pinching. We like the idea of a fair go in this country. Why are we doing this, less than 10 years into the scheme when there is no evidence for it? - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

This is an investment. People are being employed, spending money on Australian services and supports. It's good for people, good for the economy - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

It feels like a deliberate tactic - to consistently deluge the sector in information and changes. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

The onus is on the person with disability to constantly prove their disability - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

There are really good people in the NDIA who do not support these changes. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

People with disability, families, friends, supporters are greatly concerned with what is being proposed. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

Minister Reynolds has said there needs to be some "hard discussions" because of the "unsustainability" of the scheme. But we have also heard it is on track. - @LibbyCokerMP #NDIS #NDISJSC

Better outcomes for people with disability is better outcomes for the whole community. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

The issue of trust is really important. How do we rebuild it? - @LibbyCokerMP We need a complete flip. Genuinely involve people with disability, families, representative orgs, to come up with the solutions. We want it to be a fantastic scheme - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

.@drgeorgethecrip wrote a great letter to the Minister about his independent assessment pilot - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC everyaustraliancounts.com.au/opinion/an-ope…

The argument that existing allied health professionals are indulging in 'sympathy bias' is a slap in the face. They are professionals. You can't just blanket dismiss their advice. - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

If people without empathy assess PWD what do we think will happen? You get much lower quality outcomes of support. Life is very difficult for people with disability - @AfdoOffice #NDIS #NDISJSC

These tools are untested in their proposed use. The assessors may be unqualified to carry out those assessments. There is a fundamental disconnect between the Tune review, the NDIA, the PC's use of the term 'independent assessment'. - @Jordonsteele #NDIS #NDISJSC

You have been presented with a fait accompli - a process that will apply to ALL participants, not SOME, as was proposed by the Tune review. @Jordonsteele #NDIS #NDISJSC

The assessment tools have never been used anywhere in the world to generate a plan budget, correct? @Jordonsteele Yes - @AFDO_CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

That's it for @AfdoOffice today. 5-minute break and back with DSS, NDIA, and NDIS Minister Linda Reynolds at 11:25am AEST. #NDIS #NDISJSC

NDIS Minister Linda Reynolds says the scheme started with multipartisan support - says that doesn't exist at the moment. Says the scheme is on an unsustainable growth trajectory, based on incorrect assumptions #NDIS #NDISJSC

It became very evident in first few days on the job 6 weeks ago there is significant concern in the community. (She received thousands of your emails via everyaustraliancounts.com.au/hands-off/) - Minister Reynolds #NDIS #NDISJSC

Have heard concerns about the assessors. The assessment tools. If they would meet the needs of such a diverse population. Concerns about NDIS being the only source of support for people with disability - NDIS or nothing. - Minister Reynolds #NDIS #NDISJSC

Have also heard concerns about review and appeal rights. - Minister Reynolds #NDIS #NDISJSC

I don't think any of those issues are insurmountable. But we need to work together and with the states to get the legislation through, and get it on a sustainable cost trajectory - Minister Reynolds #NDIS #NDISJSC

I know there are people who are very angry in the disability community. - Minister Reynolds #NDIS #NDISJSC

Says current legislation does not make flexibility possible - Minister Reynolds #NDIS #NDISJSC

Two major priorities - 1. sustainable growth trajectory. 2. 'Mature' NDIA and legislation. I know the has been some debate about the 2017 PC projections. But participant payments have increased - Minister Reynolds #NDIS #NDISJSC

One of most alarming trends is (in charts we've just shared with you) cohorts are self-reporting lower self-funtionality. Confronting for me as custodian. Is the scheme not working, making people less functional? Or is something else going on - Minister Reynolds #NDIS #NDISJSC

I do need to bring in new legislation in this year to introduce independent assessments. And more flexibility, longer plans - Minister Reynolds #NDIS #NDISJSC

The NDIA have agreed to share the outcomes of the independent assessment pilot. We will do that before I meet with DRC in July. - Minister Reynolds #NDIS #NDISJSC

Mentions she used to be on the #NDISJSC. - Minister Reynolds #NDIS

When I read the charts (answers to QON) I was very perplexed by the apparent decline in functionality. It doesn't add up to me. So, how is functionality defined? Are there definitions? What is 'self-reporting', are there perverse outcomes in that process? Kevin Andrews #NDISJSC

Instead of celebrating success - people at their annual planning meetings/review (she is calling 'assessments') have to keep proving how disabled they are. - Minister Reynolds #NDIS #NDISJSC

Existing process - LAC uses info from an assessment tool suited to the person's disability. DSM-IV for example. Put the data into the system. Comes with levels of impact, mild, moderate, profound. Also use Vineland, similar ratings. - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

Need a health professional to administer the tool. If they don't have someone a planner or LAC themselves administers the WHODAS, or PEDICAT for children. The person 'self-reports' using the WHODAS. - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

So there is inconsistency because WHODAS and PEDICAT are administered by us, other tools by a person's treating medical professionals. That could result in different results because WHODAS is self-reported. That's our current process - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

Is there any differentiation in the data between the tools used (in the QON graphs submitted)? - Kevin Andrews MP #NDIS #NDISJSC

Is the only thing that differs just the person who administers it? - Kevin Andrews MP #NDIS #NDISJSC

We would rather not have our planners and LACs administer the tools. We want consistency. Some people can afford the assessments, some can't, so they need us to do the WHODAS. - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

Independent assessment has three sections. 1 - Observe a task. 2. Tick box questions - WHODAS, Vineland, 5 or 6. 6 functional domains. Resulting in 'consistent' results. - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

The person can choose which available company and the gender of the assessor. And if it should happen in one or multiple sessions. - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

All the tools would be used, but different for children. Not DSM-5 though - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

Each participant will be assessed using each and every tool. Then the data goes to the NDIA. Assessors must have one year of experience. Physio, OTs, etc. - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

Would a speech therapist be able to use a tool meant to be used for a person with a spinal injury? Kevin Andrews MP. It's not about disability, it's functionality. Assessors will get 24 hours of training on other tools, AND the NDIS Act, etc - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

Long answer - no the assessors will not be matched to the disability type - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

Assessment across the board. It's not seeking to be your treating professional in terms of advice or recommendations on supports to be used. Get your plan then go to your allied health professional for that - NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

Prof Bonyhady said the tools are not fit for purpose. I disagree. It's set out in our detailed assessment paper. - NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

You said the 'Personal Budget Tool' (the computer algorithm) translates the results of the independent assessment into draft plan budgets. What does it mean? - Kevin Andrews #NDIS #NDISJSC

The assessment results makes scores against domains. We've developed about 400 different 'personas' to work out what a plan budget should be. Gives a plan budget figure. Can later add AT or SDA - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

Mentioned a piece of information that explains in detail how they get from the score to the budget (missed the first part of the comment) - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

So you have domains. Then about 400 boxes, you apply a person to the nearest match. Then that gives you a range of funding you can apply to that person? - Chair Kevin Andrews MP. Yes, domains, disability type, informal support, location. NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

Will it include Aboriginal and Torres Straight islander background, CALD, etc?
Possibly - could be included in informal supports - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

Are there other forms of 'self-reporting' that may have been included in the graphs you gave us? @Jordonsteele WHODAS and Vineland are the self-reporting tools. There are some others for specific disability types. - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

It depends on the person's primary disability. Autism you get a 1, 2, 3, 4... - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

Do you weigh them against each other? There is not a universal high, medium, low functionality tool. @Jordonsteele
We used the WHODAS and the person's primary disability. If they have a health professional we include their other score too - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

For reporting purposes we use the WHODAS (cutting out). - NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

Can we take on notice the conversion tool that divides people up into high, medium and low. - NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

So WHODAS is the default instrument? - Kevin Andrews.
WHODAS is the fallback, or last resort if no other tools are available NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

Section 34 of the NDIS Act says assessment must start with goals. @SenCarolBrown
I disagree, lists 6 factors when deciding on funded supports. 34a allows the pursuit of a goal. Goals remain very important. - NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

I have asked the NDIA for something which more clearly demonstrates how this all works together - walks through the process for a person with disability. So I can share that with the Committee. I can also send a list of average plan costs by electorate. - Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

Section 34 goes to the Operational Guildelines on which all decisions are made. - @SenCarolBrown #NDIS #NDISJSC

What are the assumptions you are calculating the cost overruns on? - @AliciaPayneMP #NDIS #NDISJSC

The 2017 PC report did project $30b. It wasn't saying what it SHOULD be. But what it could be. - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

A 12% per annum growth trajectory is not sustainable. 'demand-driven' does not mean 'unlimited'. (Doesn't answer the question about the assumptions) - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

Commentary around the 2017 PC report, repeating content from latest NDIA media release - NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

There has to be a change to the current rates of growth - NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

Will you release all the assumptions and modelling behind these projections? - @AliciaPayneMP
We already release a lot of data in our Quarterly reports (another non-answer). - NDIA CEO. #NDIS #NDISJSC

DSS says we can provide more projections (again, not committing to sharing the assumptions behind the projections). #NDIS #NDISJSC

Is it possible the assumptions or previous projections are not correct? @AliciaPayneMP
They are the best possible estimates but always subject to review - DSS #NDIS #NDISJSC

A 9 year old girl who uses a wheelchair was found in her independent assessment to NOT have mobility issues. Liam Dahner was denied a seizure mat, could have saved his life. A constituent has been diagnosed with PTSD from dealing with the NDIS - @AliciaPayneMP #NDIS #NDISJSC

Where is the care in these new changes? -@AliciaPayneMP #NDIS #NDISJSC

I want to change the NDIS Act to remove the need for yearly reviews. The Tune review recommended independent assessments. Their design is up for discussion. - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

We need to change section 34 (reasonable and necessary) - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

What is your conception of what is 'need'? @AliciaPayneMP
It is absolutely at the heart of the scheme. - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

The disability sector is completely and consistently united opposition to the independent assessments. @AliciaPayneMP
That is untrue. The disability sector is not homogenised in their views (this looks pretty united to us: everyaustraliancounts.com.au/ndis-sector-st…) - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

To be fair Minister I'm just responding to evidence provided to this committee. - @AliciaPayneMP #NDIS #NDISJSC

So you are going to redefine 'reasonable and necessary'? @AliciaPayneMP
I hope to consult with your committee and the sector on a better and more consistent definition. - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

The NDIS is globally unique, we should be very very proud of it. Doesn't like Section 34 of the NDIS Act. The scheme is on an unsustainable trajectory. We need to have hard discussions with the crossbench, states, the comittee - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

What does lower than expected exit rates mean? @AliciaPayneMP
Section 30. People who either cease to be a resident, or no longer found to meet the access requirements (or who die). Primarily early intervention. Says something about 'reassessments' - NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

We've been running at about half the expected rate.
Would you make the assumptions public?
I just did! - NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

NDIS or nothing. What else are people meant to be relying on? @AliciaPayneMP
NDIS was never designed to be everything for everyone. Quotes Prof Bonyhady's 'oasis in the desert'. Tier 2 with states and territories - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

If there are no other services outside of the NDIS it incentivises access to the scheme because there is nothing else. - DSS #NDIS #NDISJSC

Are you saying too many people are getting onto the NDIS? @AliciaPayneMP
No, not at all. But it's more than we predicted. 2017 PC report sounded alarm bells. Its neither good nor bad but we underestimated the number of participants - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

We didn't know how many people would need to come into the scheme. We need to find a way to make room for everybody. - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

We are seeing a reacceleration of participant growth - another 80,000? - NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

Independent assessments are paused but you say they will still go ahead even though people will disability are quite outraged, and have many more questions? What's the timeframe? - @LibbyCokerMP #NDIS #NDISJSC

independent funtional assessments will go ahead. I have heard a range of concerns. My role as Minister is to hear the concerns. Some of them are information concerns. Others are we do need to make some changes. - NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

Equity issue is absolutely fundamental. This is not a fair scheme. I am looking holistically. IAs will make it fairer. The trial outcomes will be public. Will take it back to state ministers in July. Then legislation in the next session - NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

Are IAs the only way to achieve equity? The Tune review made a suggestion to use a form of them - in part. Why cant we instead have a co-designed system change to get trust and achieve equity? @LibbyCokerMP #NDIS #NDISJSC

We are doing a trial. It has raised issues. It means the process is working. The trial won't impact on people's plans (not completely true, can be used for future plans) - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

So any of the outcomes in the trial will have no impact on a person's plan? @LibbyCokerMP
Absolutely, 100%. (Again, no guarantee, and participants are asked if they want the results to inform their next plan)- NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

There is certainly a learning on the one particular question. (9 year old Eliza's 'mobility impairment'). Oliver Bladeck lists a number of questions that might have asked about mobility and AT etc - #NDIS #NDISJSC

The market behind #NDIS services and supports has had to develop over time. It varies by location. Part of the market developing. Varying level of skill and knowledge between NDIA planners. Challenging, esp in complex cases like ATSI in rural and remote. @Jordonsteele #NDISJSC

But you say 'postcode' disparities are because there are no independent assessments. Would you not agree there are other factors? - @Jordonsteele #NDIS #NDISJSC

Says possibly - show me then tell me the solutions. Then lists a bunch of differences between electorates. Says will release that data. Then makes argument about people who are more financially well off, need for IAs and personas to 'even out' funds - NDIS Minister #NDIS #NDISJSC

There are multiple other factors that are not addressed by independent assessments. How does the government propose that a standardised assessment fixes that you don't have access to SDA and other supports in regional/remote areas? - @Jordonsteele #NDIS #NDISJSC

Ignores actual question - compares someone well off accessing reports from health professionals in Perth vs someone less well off in Kununurra or Karratha. - #NDIS Minister #NDISJSC

Yes there are two issues. We need to get rid of the unfairness (around accessing reports). Supply of providers in thin markets is a separate issue. Shouldn't conflate them - #NDIS Minister #NDISJSC

But thin markets are reflected in the funding in the plan. Your logic is flawed. In Kunnanura where there are not the same services as in Perth you will get less funding, because there are no services to get funding to use on - @Jordonsteele #NDIS #NDISJSC

Hoffman says it's instead about plan utilisation. Says plan size is a different question that plan spending. #NDIS #NDISJSC

Minister suggests a separate hearing on the assessment tools. #NDIS #NDISJSC

CEO: The 400 'personas' are geography independent. But we do allow greater loadings in regional and remote locations.
So theoretically a person in Kunnanurra should get more than a person with the same disability in Perth - Kevin Andrews MP #NDIS #NDISJSC

How much did you spend on the contract to develop the 'new NDIS narrative' where fairness and consistency etc came from? @Jordonsteele
Focus groups etc total $84,000. NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

.@Jordonsteele asking for Questions on Notice
How many assessors will you need?
CEO: Depends how many you need to do at any given time.
And how many you'll have for rural regional and remote? #NDIS #NDISJSC

Have you modelled the impact of the implementation of IAs on those thin market geographic areas? @comms_ahpa have expressed concerns.
DSS and CEO - no. #NDIS #NDISJSC

Your website says IAs will take about 3 hours. But in a media release at the start of this inquiry you said it will not be three hours. @Jordonsteele
NDIA Oliver Bladeck says no time limit. #NDIS #NDISJSC

In your tender for IAs you said 'multi-disciplinary briefings' were not required. You said it will take approx 2.5-3 hours to do the assessment AND write the report. You just said it is unlimited. Tender says you will be paid per assessment. @Jordonsteele #NDIS #NDISJSC

So why does it say 3 hours on your website? @Jordonsteele
We needed to give some guidance at the start of this process. NDIA #NDIS #NDISJSC

At least 3 of the organisations doing the pilot are on the contract? What have they been allowed? 2.5 or 3 hours? @SenCarolBrown
We are renumerating per quality assessment, full suite. Some feedback says it is too long. Take precise answer on notice. NDIA CEO #NDIS #NDISJSC

If the Minister is serious about this committee being a partner we need evidence-based information. When will you release all of the assumptions behind the projections? Your clarifying statement is impossible to draw conclusions from. @SenCarolBrown #NDIS #NDISJSC

Every member of the committee would be helped to see two documents. The Financial Sustainability Report. And the Actuarial modelling. We asked for that weeks and weeks ago. We need to independently assess the accuracy of your assumptions @Jordonsteele #NDISJSC

CEO Martin Hoffman says the Committee have invited the NDIA to make an additional submission to the #NDISJSC. They will be delighted to provide one. (Probably because the current version is followed by so many complaints aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_…) #NDIS

That's it from DSS, the NDIS Minister Linda Reynolds, and the NDIA for today. Sounds like they will be back again. After a break will hear from Catherine McAlpine, CEO @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

Short excerpt from #DisabilityRC "Adam was subject to worst restrictive practices advocates have ever seen. Chained to the floor at school. Handcuffs 23/7 after that. He has 24/7 NDIS care. He is at extraordinary risk of these assessments. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

It is time to stop punishing people with disability for the unintended consequences of poor scheme design. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

2020 iPad policy. NDIA said they had a much lower take-up than expected. We had to say - your assumptions are wrong. People with intellectual disability are invisible to you. They didn't know about it. NDIA looks at data and makes assumptions - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

There has been so much talk about costs. What about benefits? There are so many benefits, social and economic - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

It is deeply concerning you have a suite of tools designed to be used by an allied health professional from one profession being used by allied health pros from another. They can't be all lumped together like that - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

If the assessment results are wrong you can't appeal. Or if you are not granted an exemption you are 'exited' from the scheme. They are not 'reviewable decisions'. You can't appeal them. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

There is a tool - the I-CAN - which wasn't included in the assessment toolkit. We don't know why the only tool designed for funding wasn't included. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

Someone who has an employment goal will need different funding from someone who wants to go to a day service. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

We are worried that one of the ways they'll push back on funding for 'sustainability' is to rely more heavily on informal supports (families), particularly for adults with intellectual disability. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

It's great the Minister said they'll release the data from the pilot - but it won't have any information about how the assessment will affect/generate your plan. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

This is a massive risk to the scheme. There's no evidence this will improve things. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

The promise of the NDIS was to improve social and economic outcomes - and the NDIS is failing at this. You will get more supports if you leave school then go to a day program than if you want to get mainstream employment - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

We've had one joint sector meeting with the Minister everyaustraliancounts.com.au/ndis-engagemen…. We have not had any discussions with her about or with people with intellectual disability. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

We've felt from the beginning that the proposal for independent assessments are really about keeping down costs. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

You still have to get your proof of disability (like with a Vineland), before you can do an independent assessment anyway. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

People's plans are being cut. They are cutting capacity building. The very thing that you invest in now - build their capacity - they'll be more independent and need more supports later. So these solutions are very short term, not long term. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

They have not provided any proof that the assessments will result in improvements anyway. They won't share the data. We want to compare it to our knowledge, our anecdotal evidence - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

The people making the actuarial assumptions don't actually understand disability. They should be consulting with us. It is really disappointing. And it is insulting when they say "oh you just don't understand" - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

Tests like the Vineland are usually done by someone else - like a parent. It takes agency away from the person with disability. The Vineland has things like maybe, sometimes, etc, but other tools are just yes or no - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

My son in an IQ test was asked if he could put something 'underneath' something. He could, but he didn't know what underneath meant. Was it a vocab test or unintentional? You need an experienced professional matched to the tool to administer them. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

You need a multidisciplinary team. It's not just a technical exercise of ticking boxes. Ie do a household task. If you don't have any experience you watch my son make a cup of tea and think he can do it. He can do it at home - not somewhere else. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

So you still need to pay to get a Vineland, in order to get access, so you have to do another Vineland as part of the independent assessment. @Jordonsteele
Yes! - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

We're saying to the NDIA why don't you look at our theories as much as you look at yours. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

We have overuse of sedation in group homes, aged care, prisons... if you force people to live with other people they don't choose. There is a massive problem, people with ID are mostly given supports in groups. Results in 'decline' - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

CHEIF is for people who've had strokes. We don't know if it'd be any good for people with intellectual disability. WHODAS - the academics all agree it's outdated. The tools are not fit for purpose for people with cognitive and intellectual disability - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

These tools were not designed for generating funding. The algorithm is an NDIA construct. It hasn't been validated by anyone. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

The algorithm will put you into a box/persona, based on your assessment score, your disability, age, location etc. But a person who gets put into the same box may have other disabilities too, and very different goals. This is not fit for purpose. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

The Tune review said assessments may be useful for some of the people some of the time - they've extrapolated it for ALL of the people ALL of the time. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

If the Minister went back to Tune and said discretionary not mandatory, and worked through the details and co-designed with us things would be different. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

A disability scheme is not an accident and injury scheme. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

This is ideological. If this was about equity there are lots of solutions - assessment vouchers, medicare numbers, etc - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

From a risk approach this is a really really big change for the scheme. The pilots are not piloting whether independents are a good idea or not, they're testing how they should run. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

Free assessments for the purposes of access with someone you choose - not to replace planning. The proposed assessments are not independent - because they're run by the NDIA - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

Intellectual disability is not something that you can 'recover' from. Accident and injury schemes are different. - @inclusionoz #NDIS #NDISJSC

That's it from @inclusionoz today. Next up we are hearing from John Walsh AM - former member of the Productivity Commission and former NDIA Board Member. #NDIS #NDISJSC

Mr Walsh is appearing in a private capacity via phone. Before joining the Productivity Commission he worked for state government accident and injury insurance schemes. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

Australian governments of all stripes have let down people with disability. A broken National Disability Strategy. Obsolete defined services. Incomplete National Injury Insurance Scheme. Tier 2 had been a political football. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

All of these mean tier 3 - individual funding is the only game in town. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

Independent assessments are one element but will not realign us to the original PC report and the Shut Out report - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

The introduction of independent assessments will be difficult. Should have happened at the start. We need to invest in Tier 2 investment (ILC) restored to the NDIA. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

Short of an NDIS individual package, people have nowhere to go. Rebuild Tier 2. Rebuild the National Disability Strategy. States and Commonwealth have disinvested over the last 10 years leaving us in a worse position. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

Building the capacity of people with disability in the community to take advantage of mainstream supports. And people who need more support move into the NDIS, and should get a flexible package. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

The Minister said by 24-25 the Commonwealth will be funding 61% of the scheme. Is that in line with original projections? Kevin Andrews MP
It was meant to be proportional with the states. The commonwealth when it was starting volunteered to accept more - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

Fixed funding levels encourages creativity. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

Is the construction of the 400 personas appropriate? Kevin Andrews MP
It's what we used in the original PC report. We used diagnosis type. It was the best info we had at the time. We said for example what are the levels of severity for cerebral palsy. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

That's how we developed benchmarks - reference packages. Age brackets, types of disability. That was the starting point, the point of departure for each individual. Then ATSI, remote, informal supports etc. Then move the benchmark up or down - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

(The difference is now is it's not easy to go up - and IAs will not consider the other factors) - #NDIS #NDISJSC

Why was the original modelling not costed to meet the needs?
It was first done in NSW. About 80% of the cost was being spent on people in group homes. The money was rationed. Aging parents had to relinquish care. It triggered an emergency response - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

Our modelling showed that the total support need was about 8-10 times what was being funded in the NSW system. Then the NDIS funding was increased again. It was considered going higher would not be a good outcome for people with disability - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

Having a person with you all the time is not inclusion, it's welfare. We sought to create a scheme with paid and informal support. We wanted it to have some challenge, to encourage people with disability to be creative about inclusion. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

We heard from @inclusionoz that people are getting less and less capacity building support now. @AliciaPayneMP
Poor planning. Need more investment in Tier 2. It's just loading up welfare and therapy rather than capacity building - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

Why has the government dismantled ILC? @AliciaPayneMP
When I first heard it was described at vandalism in the extreme. I think it's criminal. The agency only had control over tier 2 for about 12 months. It was a political football. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

It wasn't the first time money was taken away from the NDIA. At the beginning of the scheme there was a Sector Development Fund to build the capacity of disability representative type organisations. It's criminal - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

Was there any opposition from the disability sector around reference packages (at the start). Only some about psychosocial disabilities. We sat on the fence whether or not they'd be covered by the NDIS. But this was mostly in NSW's Stronger Together - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

Has anyone seen these reference packages? @SenCarolBrown
I don't remember, it was shared with DSS. Some info in the original PC report. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

The agency said today goals are not included in the independent assessments. Meaning goals and aspirations are out. So it will be a deficits based approach. @SenCarolBrown
My view is the opposite. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

IAs will not consider the importance of goals and aspirations. @SenCarolBrown
They will discuss it in their planning meeting (after the funding has been decided) - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

I agree with the need for an objective way to get reasonable and necessary and flexible support. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

Other factors will be taken into account in adjusting the package size around the reference mark. (Not what we've heard before) - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

We really need to get serious about tier 2 and the National Disability Strategy. If IAs go ahead without these changes the NDIA will be better off, but not people who don't meet the access requirements - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

We tried about 20 years ago to make a mathematical model, diagnosis neutral assessments. I haven't seen one. There have been models developed, I-CAN and something else. I don't think they've been operationalised at any scale. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

I haven't looked at the tools in detail. I'm looking at the philosophy and ideology. I have read the DSS and NDIA joint submission, it quotes experts who support it (who have all just come out to announce they DO NOT support IAs). - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

I have heard about problems in the pilot. There are problems. I am not relaxed. But we need to do something - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

So you are talking about the philosophical and conceptual benefits as outlined in the Tune review. @Jordonsteele
Yes but also my lifes experience with different accident and injury insurance schemes. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

.@Jordonsteele asks if he knew the academics have publically rejected the implications that they support the independent assessments as outlined in the DSS NDIA submission?
No, I was not aware of that - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

You said you support assessment tools that are valid and reliable. This is the first time they've been combined into a singular assessment, used by an assessor who may not be qualified. Does that meet your test of valid and reliable? @Jordonsteele #NDIS #NDISJSC

Is it true that accident and injury schemes aim to get people back to their previous capacity?
Indemnity - use funding to restore previous activity. I was involved in the previous NSW lifetime care scheme. That informed the development of the NDIS - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

It's impossible to make me walk again. It's about giving people the best chance - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

The majority of people in accident schemes have a traumatic brain and comorbidities of psychosocial disability and cognitive impairments. Yes, it is different to the NDIS cohort - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

So looking at functionality under an NDIS lens with very different cohorts - wouldn't that make it a lot more difficult to predict lifetime support needs? @Jordonsteele
The commonality between the two is that they both fit in the ICF WHO - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

I can't guarantee the tools will be 100% successful. I can say philosophically a consistent and flexible allocation of funding is the way forward against a rapidly expanding scheme. - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

The role of the schemes is very different. Accident and injury insurance schemes are to restore functionality. The NDIS is to provide supports in a constantly changing environment. @Jordonsteele #NDIS #NDISJSC

Successive governments will look for ways to choke the scheme. There are competing demands from aged care, etc - John Walsh #NDIS #NDISJSC

That's it for today. More hearings will be announced. There will be another this Thursday - details are updated at aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_… #NDIS #NDISJSC