@tfamerica3000 @LizInTheB @tommy_pane He is a serious person. IMO.
Who often says & holds things that are not serious...But seem so within the framework of his beliefs.
It is why I keep pounding, or kept, I am done, on the walls trying introduce another premise into the mindset.
But such things are not subject to
@tfamerica3000 @LizInTheB @tommy_pane 2/ rational contemplation...Not if you do not want to be rational...And to be rational, or different, is to be threatened with expulsion from all you know & believe to be true.

This is the nut of the problem that will shred the country.
The underlying value difference so long
@tfamerica3000 @LizInTheB @tommy_pane 3/ buried, or suppressed, have broken out and are demanding attention. But more than attention, all power.
This force has been growing for a long time. The internal weakness in America, its own long drift from the core enlightenment values not only of liberty, but the
@tfamerica3000 @LizInTheB @tommy_pane 4/ responsibility to nuture that liberty with devotion and care has given room for these movements to surface.

We are living in a pattern of this sort of thing.
Toynbee addresses it at the civilization level. We have experienced it, especially vicariously, in two WWars.
@tfamerica3000 @LizInTheB @tommy_pane 5/ Now it is hitting our country, proving again the basic truths
-you cannot escape fr your past however deeply buried. It will emerge
-it can happen here. And will... (& now is)

If we were healthy Trump/ism would have no foothold & be relegated to the shadows fr which it came.
@tfamerica3000 @LizInTheB @tommy_pane 6/ My engagement w T has been an attempt to engage someone devoted to those ideas, like Lincoln would engage Douglas. In the end it is not the top level events or ideas, but the deeper underlying axioms that are the essence of the divide.
& divided we are.
& divided we will be.
@tfamerica3000 @LizInTheB @tommy_pane 7/ I have this boding we are living through the long echo of the Civil War period, those things that were never resolved by that war. It put a lid on the difference, & forced a conclusion that was never integrated. That lid is popped off & the old battles are raging in new forms.
@tfamerica3000 @LizInTheB @tommy_pane 7/ This note threatens to become another mini-essay. The pathways from this point that demand attention are many.
I'll pick this one and close this for now:

So is it a matter of "everybody is right in their own beliefs"?
I don't think so, else there would never be any progress.
@tfamerica3000 @LizInTheB @tommy_pane 8/ At root, at the core, at the level of a' prior - before you form a belief, an opinion, a hypothesis of the case, & certainly a theory, there is a devotion to core values.
In the legal profession it is expressed as "follow the evidence where ever it leads".
@tfamerica3000 @LizInTheB @tommy_pane 9/ At root, IMO, the cause of so much of these troubles is that our 'a priori' values are fundamentally different.

That is the topic sentence of a larger thought.
I'll assert it is essential to und conflicts across the world.

What do you fear?
What do you hold true?

Hard to
@tfamerica3000 @LizInTheB @tommy_pane 10/ penetrate that, harder to change it.

In our case, we are founded on a set of beliefs/axioms that "Hold These Truths to be Self Evident".

Only we do not.
And thus
all this.

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More from @mhbx

4 Sep
@tommy_pane One last shot at registering something that might loosen your grip on this:
I I wish you c/would find something that actually resembles a plan in the Trumpian catalog.

Something more tangible than the bombastic demagoguery & claim to destroy something that many of the Trumpian
@tommy_pane 2/ faithful actually depend upon. It’s very similar to the tea party holding their angry outrage at the government trying to fix healthcare well demanding they don’t mess with their Social Security or Medicare.
The astonishing ignorance in the Trumpian hoi polloi is concerning.
@tommy_pane 3/ But that wasn’t really the point I intend to make here. Just a final observation of the quality of thinking that goes on in this stirred up, mob-based, outrage that Trump is so adroit at stoking. It really is his super power.
And like a mob, and like authoritarians we know
Read 13 tweets
31 Aug
@tommy_pane @Sava02387485 wow and once and for all...
actually
last time ever.

Such unmitigated bullsht and smoke to cover the most obvious of defects of your 'dear leader'.

No...it is not hard to conceive... it is impossible.
You live in one of two fantasy worlds. I don't know which is worse.
@tommy_pane @Sava02387485 2/ The simplistic nature of your "thinking" is so remedial I am beginning to wonder.

You think the entire American health care system needs only this one thing: "remove barriers to direct contact..."

In reality, it actually takes thought to implement even such an airy idea.
@tommy_pane @Sava02387485 3/ I imagine you laughing your ass off thinking you can just say such unmitigated BS and think it will fly...
But, on the other hand, it does demonstrate, in primary colors how vapid not only Trump is, but his most dedicated followers & believers.
Read 10 tweets
30 Aug
A key point:Climate issues are not subject to our political divisions
We have entered deep into #Systemic issues that are not und at the levels we are having the discussions.

Thus we are perpetually surprised.
We are perpetually unprepared.
We are not learning at the right level
The issues we are embroiled in today...
They are too big for our small-minded "red/blue" thinking. They are immense, & require a level of (re)thinking that, thus far, transcends our abilities to act...(given the stubborn reluctance we demonstrate on far less complex issues)
Of course it is facile to say this or that one idea/factor/function is the "Key"....
But certainly one of the keys to all of these issues of this quality is to recognize that in fact all of life is integrated, and is integral to the well being of all life
Read 10 tweets
24 Aug
@plainjan2 @medit8now @stevebenen @MaddowBlog 1/ What is remarkable re the Any Rand framework is it requires the underlying societal framework to attach onto to draw resources, energy & labor from in order to function.
Then it sets up stupid simplicities like “you can just do this all on your own just be like John Galt“.
@plainjan2 @medit8now @stevebenen @MaddowBlog 2/ It is the ultimate capitalistic move to “privatize the profits and socialize the costs“.
It is the flaw in every “success story” that attributes iconic success to an individual or company.
It is why they cannot stand the observation “you did not create all of that yourself”.
@plainjan2 @medit8now @stevebenen @MaddowBlog 3/ The end of that is as you say, the selfish ethic. The incredible deception & Self adulation that “I did all this, and therefore I am amazing”.

The lack of accounting of total cost & consequence allows the ruse of “I am the smartest in the room” ..which may be true to a point
Read 4 tweets
19 Aug
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 I'll conclude this wan attempt w a few replies:
1. IBID. I have detailed a number of points in this thread. I do not think you have addressed any of them, any further than to dismiss them outright, or claim some fear of being silenced.
2. You are not forthcoming about your
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 2/ allegiences. Shifty and shifting. I wonder if you are part of the Q cohort, and you [sort a'] beg off, indicating no. But then defend & propoate their nonsense...
Ditto some other "sources" of yours.

3. I find it disingenuous how easily you dismiss everything that stands in
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 3/ direct contrast & contradiction to the things you hold as true.

4. I do not take the opposite position from you. That there is corruption & all manner of problems is indisputable.
Unlike you, I do not have a slavish devotion to a tribe, and thus am quite free to know more, &
Read 10 tweets
12 Aug
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 Quick Response #2:
By way of doing a better job of setting the framework of my POV on these matters.
I think @TimothyDSnyder has a clear handle on the times.
The book "How Democracies perish" is essential
@anneapplebaum has clear & personal experiences w these breakdowns of
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @TimothyDSnyder @anneapplebaum 2/ democratic countries into authoritarian systems w (often incredibly ignorant and stupid) strong men taking over.

The pattern here is obvious and not to be dismissed out of hand.

This along w the very long discussion/debate starting from the enlightenment times concerning
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @TimothyDSnyder @anneapplebaum 3/ the meaning, as well as the balance of liberty/freedom what is government, what is citizen, what principles must be in the a' priori place in order to have a free society, while also having a society..

The complexities are many.
Largely conscribed by one's 1st principles.
Read 8 tweets

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