@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 Quick Response #2:
By way of doing a better job of setting the framework of my POV on these matters.
I think @TimothyDSnyder has a clear handle on the times.
The book "How Democracies perish" is essential
@anneapplebaum has clear & personal experiences w these breakdowns of
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @TimothyDSnyder @anneapplebaum 2/ democratic countries into authoritarian systems w (often incredibly ignorant and stupid) strong men taking over.

The pattern here is obvious and not to be dismissed out of hand.

This along w the very long discussion/debate starting from the enlightenment times concerning
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @TimothyDSnyder @anneapplebaum 3/ the meaning, as well as the balance of liberty/freedom what is government, what is citizen, what principles must be in the a' priori place in order to have a free society, while also having a society..

The complexities are many.
Largely conscribed by one's 1st principles.
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @TimothyDSnyder @anneapplebaum 4/ I think it is this level where the break/canyon is to be found. This gets into the hard history, and contradiction, that is America.
Some see A as aspirational, some see it as having already arrived and why are you messing with it. (MAGA)

I see this as the essential issue.
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @TimothyDSnyder @anneapplebaum In this current breach, the historical antecedents & patterns are clear.
Lincoln dealt w them. We continue the struggle.

"We must disenthrall ourselves & so save the country"

A truer thing has not been said.
Nor a harder thing to do.

@threadreaderapp unroll
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @TimothyDSnyder @anneapplebaum 5/ There are many people who are paying attention to the days troubles who are worth paying attention to.
(I think they are essential resources, not so much optional)

@HC_Richardson is one. There are others.

We need to understand the power of the confluence of forces in play.
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @TimothyDSnyder @anneapplebaum 6/ “In America, the hallmark of budding fascism is populist street violence, rather than an elite philosophy of government.
The Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville had the hallmarks of such a populist movement.” — @HC_Richardson
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @TimothyDSnyder @anneapplebaum 7/ This is the essential summary of the issue & problem:
The question "How Democracies perish?" is most salient. How indeed. It is why we have to understand the forces, examples & patterns of history.

And basic human nature.
Fascism/Authoritarians create, then use deep fear...

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More from @mhbx

12 Aug
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 It is tricky business, for sure.
And interesting as a real-time example of looking at the same event from different perspectives.
I'll write more later.
For now just noticing your thinking they are being 'purged', while most of us see it as liars being finally denied access
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 2/ to (only a very few) of the transitional communication outlets to express their pure & unadulterated lies.

Not that lies are being purged, but the very few that threaten to undermine & erode the foundations of society.

This sentence, while true, from my pov, I recognize is
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 3/ a difficult one. Requiring a great deal of context, awareness, comprehension, and perhaps most essentially, an a' priori devotion to truth.

People are not being purged for holding & propagating an idea, but for being profoundly dishonest, & devoted to something other than
Read 10 tweets
9 Aug
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @adamsteinbaugh The difference between you & me, between those who see the con & the believers in the con is that instead of increasingly shrill declarations that run contrary to every fact, as if ranting against actual facts had substance, the diff is we point to a mountain of facts, data, and
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @adamsteinbaugh 2/ utterances by Trump & the trump team. We do not have to rely on hidden meanings, or occult parsing of "2016" to occlude & distract from Every Single thing that demonstrates proves the opposite of your holding.

The list is now volumes long. And you remain unmoved, & unmovable.
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @adamsteinbaugh 3/ The list of what you cannot consider lest your bubble be permanently popped. And who are you then? Having bought into the con so fully?
It is a hard thing. I get it.

Now we have the greatest con, the greatest lie, & the most essential as to its destructive possibilities
Read 14 tweets
8 Aug
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @adamsteinbaugh No. Facts are truth are not that fungible.

There are interpretations, but there is also basic science, and methods of investigation...They each start w a desire to know the facts...Not an attempt to eradicate anything that contradicts the predefined necessary conclusion.
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @adamsteinbaugh 2/ The charade going on in AZ should be enough absurdity and recognition of the lame, unprofessional, weird, but understandable doings of a tribe hell-bent on making up the data to support their belief.

It is like watching a child certain & proud of his picture of mommy & daddy.
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @adamsteinbaugh 3/ It is cute coming from a child. It is sad when people who should (& do) know better think they are pulling a fast one on everyone.
While everyone looks on, by turns amused & saddened watching the pretence they are doing & saying anything remotely important.
No one is fooled.
Read 4 tweets
30 Jul
@tfamerica3000 @tommy_pane @adamsteinbaugh You recall that there have been calls for making laws against the various Trump treacheries, saying "he is breaking the norms but there are no laws..."

This is the exact problem, and the line between a corrupt society, lawless, that needs laws to keep everyone in check,
and a
@tfamerica3000 @tommy_pane @adamsteinbaugh 2/ principled ones, where the citizenry is responsible, not trying to take every possible personal advantage, basically a society governed by "the rule of law".
An easy ex being intersections/stop lights.
If everyone has respect for the rules, there is a natural working flow.
@tfamerica3000 @tommy_pane @adamsteinbaugh 3/ When an individual breaks the rules and runs a light it causes a crash. When "everyone" tries to run the yellow etc. the 'lawmakers' have to extend the yellow to try to avoid the crash [&etc]..eventually the system is so violated it becomes untenable & you end up w traffic
Read 7 tweets
30 Jul
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @adamsteinbaugh Lets start here:
My understanding of the constitutional structural organization of power does not include a president going rouge & trying to override the will of the citizenry with stupid as well as outrageous claims of "I won". The constitution could only provide for
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @adamsteinbaugh 2/ an attempt to balance the power between the functional grouping of a civilized & complex society. Specifically the entire edifice of government rested upon the singular principle of "Consent of the Governed". From there the std 3 branches of gov are articulated & premised on
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @adamsteinbaugh 3/ the expectation that while there would be expected threats of corruption & drifts toward tyranny, by breaking up the power in this way it was presumed, or assumed, that the various branches would mitigate any attempt by a rogue executive to take over the government.
Read 8 tweets
28 Jul
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @adamsteinbaugh No
You are part of a tribe that justifies the ongoing attempt of a sociopath to renege on the principles, norms & values of the American constitutional system, including the gracious acceptance of defeat & the peaceful transfer of power.

nytimes.com/video/us/polit…
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @adamsteinbaugh 2/ All else is bull-sh* until you figure that out.

Of course I understand your position & perspective. It is not that difficult. It is the forever debate & struggle over power, resources, governance & society
Sometimes hard questions
But the answer that is Trump is a foolish one
@tommy_pane @tfamerica3000 @adamsteinbaugh 3/ Did you manage to watch the hearing today?
Probably not, is my guess. Too busy like McConnel?
You should catch at least some of the highlights.
You'll see what a fraud the various attempts to divert attention fr Jan6 have been.

These are your peeps.

theguardian.com/us-news/2021/j…
Read 4 tweets

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