Thread by @larsiusprime

Hey everyone! I got some comments in from the great @raphkoster, designer of UI and all-around MMO sage!

They didn't make it in time for press but I'll probably use them in a follow up piece. But I'll share them with you now right here!

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https://twitter.com/larsiusprime/status/1430977140166742022

@raphkoster I asked Raph if he knew what the FIRST multiplayer online game that we can truly say had something like "digital land" in the economic sense.

Raph's answer is that it was probably Monster by Rich Skrenta, an early MUD (if I'm using the term right):
mud.fandom.com/wiki/Monster_(…

@raphkoster Raph distinguishes between MUD's and MOO's by the way.

It's a little fiddly but this reddit thread helped me understand the difference there's a whole typology and line of descent here

reddit.com/r/MUD/comments…

@raphkoster Raph's notes on "land" in the early days.

Raph points to a MUD lineage called DikuMUD's which went on to be the design basis for MMOs.

@raphkoster Raph gives some points on the nature of land -- I do briefly touch on what he gets at on the third point, but I don't explore it much.

IE, limited access to dungeons in an MMO can make land a "factor of production", I definitely agree!

@raphkoster MONEY QUOTE follows

"This latter topic opens up the issues like we had in Galaxies, where there was ample room for everyone to own a house if they chose – but people did things like build player cities atop the entrances to dungeons to monopolize access to resources."

@raphkoster Raph pushes back *a little* on my righteous crusade and gently reminds me that modelling conflict is one of the reasons we play games in the first place.

I broadly agree -- my point was just to make sure we don't wind up with unintended conflicts that aren't fun.

@raphkoster I mean, you can't make a feudal simulator without feudalism.

Getting echos of @danctheduck's thought on MMO's having too much economic efficiency spoiling the fun.

It's more fun to go to the bazaar to find a great deal on green potions than just order from Ultima's Amazon

@raphkoster Points out a straight up goof in my article, mea culpa:

This is obvious in retrospect. Having a big basis of the world be fixed geography makes total sense from a server perspective

@raphkoster Raph insists that players tend to be pretty tax-averse, and I totally believe him. He mentions old-school MUDs had a feature called "rent" that was effectively a property tax (a tax on stuff you owned, including your capital goods)

@raphkoster He tells me more about old Diku lineage and references an old article of his (I found it here: raphkoster.com/2009/01/09/wha…)

Here's the tharsis-gate link below:
tharsis-gate.org/articles/imagi…

Dikus seem to have had an upkeep cost for housing!

@raphkoster OLC, or "Online Creation" is the grandparent of today's UGC platforms, Raph sends me a link here:

mud.fandom.com/wiki/Online_Cr…

@raphkoster Some more tidbits here.

"Rent" in this context is upkeep payment to avoid deletion (property tax)

Here's the realms of despair link on a concept called "moral housing":
realmsofdespair.com/smaug/herne/sm…

@raphkoster sorry that's MORTAL HOUSING

@raphkoster Also in case you missed it above Raph more or less confirms that UO was the first online multiplayer graphical game that was both open world and had non-instanced housing

@raphkoster Raph mentions how the design problem "Rent" (property tax) was meant to solve was inflation.

Nowadays I see MMO players calling these kinds of systems "gold sinks," and housing is one typical destination for that.

@raphkoster Here's the link he references there:

raphkoster.com/2017/09/22/310…

@raphkoster I just got done with one 7,000+ word essay so I need a bit of a rest, but I should be able to weave these notes into a coherent narrative.

One thing that fascinates me is this game Zapoco someone pointed out, that implemented a land tax 3 years ago

zapoco.com/forums/1/threa…

@raphkoster Obviously players hate taxes, why wouldn't they? Question is if they hate taxes more than scalpers.

Judging just from the comments (I know, I know), we do see some interesting replies. Most seem to be in favor.

@raphkoster There is a negative comment or two, but this one was particularly interesting:

"I bought like 40 plots to profit but going to lose money now ???? I can see why Tom is doing it though, inactive players own a lot of plots."

@raphkoster Ultimately the devil is in the details. Are the emergent conflicts and crises your economy is producing the behavior you actually want to elicit? If so go nuts.

I definitely know I have a deep rabbit hole of old school MUD's and weird web games I never heard of to dive down.

@raphkoster Anyways, much thanks to @raphkoster for letting me bug him this much on the internet! Hopefully you have found his insights as interesting as I did.

@raphkoster Did I seriously somehow misspell "UO" in the first tweet