Thread by @MSS3RosaFerreum

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip There was a time in which only men were awarded custody of children if a married couple ever split. During that period, men had to be the breadwinner and the homemaker, but modern women do not seem capable of working as much as men of olden times.

Why is that?

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip Regarding when men always got custody in divorce, consider "Lagging Behind the Times: Parenthood, Custody, and Gender Bias in the Family Court" by Cynthia A. McNeely published in 1998 in Volume 25 of the _Florida State University Law Review_ page 891 (ir.law.fsu.edu/cgi/viewconten…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip "[T]he father [was designated] as the natural protector of children because he had the ability to provide for their financial support. Women were seen as incapable of handling legal or financial matters…." 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. 891, 897 (1998).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip "Because fathers usually provided the family’s sole income through their employment away from the home [during the Industrial Revolution], this absence advanced the fathers' 'long march from the center to the periphery of domestic life.'" 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. at 898 (1998).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip "Congress implemented the Talfourd Act of 1839 to legislate the presumption that courts should award custody of children under age seven to the mother." 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. at 897 (1998).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip "This presumption became known as the 'tender-years doctrine,' which legalized for the first time the belief that mothers were better suited to raise children than fathers." 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. at 897 (1998).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip "Eventually, 'the tender-years presumption became the rationale for awarding custody of children of all ages to the mother on a permanent basis.'" 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. at 899 (1998).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip "[T]he continuous refrain throughout the last one hundred years has been that when it comes to childrearing, fathers are not that important." 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. at 914 (1998).

You might think the culprit was patriarchy, but it was actually feminism.

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip Consider "The Divorce Bargain: The Fathers’ Rights Movement and Family Inequalities" by Deborah Dinner published in 2016 in Volume 102 of the _Virginia Law Review_ beginning at page 79 (available at: poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?I…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip "[L]egal reforms enabling fathers to fulfill caregiving roles through joint custody would also enable mothers to fulfill breadwinning roles." 102 Virginia Law Review 128 (poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?I…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip "By promoting joint custody as well as sex-neutral spousal maintenance, …the [divorce] bargain liberalized gender roles within divorced families, offering a model of a more egalitarian family structure." 102 Virginia Law Review 142 (poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?I…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip "[T]he available evidence gleaned from comprehensive research into the movements’ archival record suggests that fathers’ rights activists genuinely pursued both the rewards and responsibilities of caring for their children." 102 Virginia Law Review 145 (poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?I…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip "Criticism of joint custody formed part of a broader critique among feminist legal theorists in the 1980s about what they perceived as an earlier generation of feminist reformers’ mistaken focus on same treatment." 102 Virginia Law Review 144 (poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?I…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip As outlined above, before labor-saving gizmos, men used to be awarded custody whenever the courts got involved and then the "tender years" doctrine came to be (which was advocated for by women) which led to sole custody being awarded to women and women getting child support.

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip However, men prior to the "tender years" doctrine had to be the household breadwinner (as such men received no child support at that time) and had to care for their children.

@Tekla_Too, why can't modern women handle the degree of responsibility on their own that men could?

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip Is it because there is a #GenderedLaborGap?

Now, we already discussed how there was a #GenderedLaborGap in 2019 (

https://twitter.com/MSS3RosaFerreum/status/1435487038086664195

) pursuant to Table 8A of the @BLS_gov’s 2019 American Time Use Survey (bls.gov/news.release/a…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov 2019:
Table 8A, column 1: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.28 2.33
Caring for household: 0.95 1.80
Work-related activities: 5.72 3.35
==========
Total: 7.95 7.48

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov However, let's look at the #GenderedLaborGap issue during a year where multiple scholars looked at the data and came to similar conclusions as each other.

Let's also look at independent research from progressive scholars like the Institute for Public Policy Research (@IPPR).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR If you add up both the unpaid labor and paid labor, on average, men work more total time than women creating a #GenderedLaborGap pursuant to (as an example) the @BLS_gov's 2017 American Time Use Survey (bls.gov/news.release/a…) and @pewresearch's data (pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch According to the @BLS_gov, "[o]n the days they worked, employed men worked 49 minutes more than employed women. … However, even among full-time workers (those usually working 35 hours or more per week), men worked more per day than women—8.4 hours, compared with 7.9 hours."

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Pursuant to @BLS_gov data in the American Time Use Survey, the average man is getting the equivalent of over 26½ (8-hour) days of experience more than the average woman is getting on the job (bls.gov/news.release/a…, p. 2).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Dividing the total hours worked into 8-hour workdays, using the @BLS_gov data from the American Time Use Survey, it's as if men (on average) are working nearly 13 months a year to women's less than 12 months per year (bls.gov/news.release/a…, p. 2).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Now, looking only at full-time workers, pursuant to @BLS_gov data in the American Time Use Survey, the average man is getting the equivalent of over 16 (8-hour) days of experience more than the average woman is getting on the job (bls.gov/news.release/a…, p. 2).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Dividing the total hours worked into 8-hour workdays, using the @BLS_gov data from the American Time Use Survey, it's almost as if men (on average) are working nearly 12½ months a year to women's less than 12 (bls.gov/news.release/a…, p. 2).

Albeit slower, this adds up fast.

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch American Time Use Survey (with 2017 as an example) shows that women on average are not spending enough more time with their kids, doing chores, or anything else to explain women's lack of time working.

On average, men just work more in America (considering both paid and unpaid).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Let's do the math:

Table 8A, column 1: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.31 2.34
Caring for household: 1.01 1.85
Work-related activities: 5.46 3.37
==========
Total: 7.78 7.56

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Now comparing the men from Table 8B to the women from Table 8C (where the youngest child is under 6):

Women care for and help household members 2.08 more hours per day than men in the most extreme case presented by Table 8A, but men work 6.43 hours more per day than women.

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Similarly, comparing the men from Table 8B to the women from Table 8C (where the youngest child is under 6), women do household activities for 1.91 more hours per day than men in the most extreme case presented by Table 8A, but, again, men work 6.43 hours more per day than women.

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Let's do the math: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.26 3.17
Caring for household: 1.42 3.36
Work-related activities: 6.57 0.00
==========
Total: 9.25 6.53

Who is doing more?

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch By comparing the men from Table 8B to the women from Table 8C (using the youngest child under 6 column), we see the situation where women are unemployed and spending the most time caring not only for the children but the whole family.

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch If women with kids are working fewer paid work hours due to the number of hours spent on childcare responsibilities, we should've seen women performing as many domestic labor hours as men were spending doing paid labor, but that isn't what we see.

We only see women working less.

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Other @BLS_gov data (see below) indicates that 61% of families have both parents employed (bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/…), but does not indicate whether the mothers are working full-time or part-time.

The American Time Use Survey does have an answer in Table 8B.

Let's check that out.

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Let's do the math:

Table 8B, column 1: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.23 1.90
Caring for household: 0.93 1.52
Work-related activities: 6.35 5.01
===========
Total: 8.51 8.43

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Maybe women are forced to stay home with their kids and that causes the gap. If true, women with no kids should be working the same amount as men in the workforce as there is no reason not to since there is no reason to be on call and no extra household or child care duties.

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Let's do that math:

Table 8A, column 4: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.54 2.21
Caring for household: 0.07 0.07
Work-related activities: 4.11 2.83
===========
Total: 5.72 5.11

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Consider just workers:

Table 8B, column 4: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.34 1.80
Caring for household: 0.04 0.05
Work-related activities: 6.17 5.29
===========
Total: 7.55 7.14

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Whether you consider all currently childless folks (Table 8A) or just the ones working (Table 8B), women spend less time on paid labor and related activities and women spend less time working considering both unpaid domestic labor and paid labor added together. The pattern holds.

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Moreover, homemaking is not usually physically demanding work (unlike the paid labor many men do that women typically do not).

See, Women Workers and Women at Home Are Equally Inactive: NHANES 2003–2006 (available at ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch "Women spent most of their day in sedentary (~55%) and light (~32%) activity, with limited lifestyle (~11%) and moderate vigorous physical activity (MVPA) (~2%), and there were no differences between the homemakers and [employed women]" (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch "Based on self-report, previous studies suggest that homemakers obtain less total physical activity, have lower overall activity-related energy expenditure, and are less likely to participate in vigorous leisure-time physical activity, than [employed women]" (Id.).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch "A recent study conducted by the PEW Research Center found that stay-at-home mothers reported spending more time on childcare, housework, leisure activities, and sleep more than working mothers" (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch …so, @honnasiri and @Tekla_Too, in the United States of America 🇺🇸, why can’t women (on average) work as many hours as men (on average)?

Per the @BLS_gov's American Time Use Survey, domestic duties aren't holding women back.

Men can do the work so why can't women?

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch "[O]nce we control only for one variable—hours worked—and compare men and women both working 40-hours per week in 2017, more than one-third of the raw 18.2% pay gap reported by the BLS disappears" (fee.org/articles/a-new…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch Did you know that “unmarried, childless women under 30 who live in cities” already out-earn men pursuant to @TIME Magazine (content.time.com/time/business/…), @usnews & World Report (usnews.com/debate-club/sh…), and @PolitiFact's @PunditFact (politifact.com/punditfact/sta…)?

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact "What’s especially interesting is that women working 35-39 hours per week [in 2017] earned 107% of men’s earnings for those weekly hours, i.e., there was a 7% gender earnings gap in favor of female workers for that cohort" (fee.org/articles/a-new…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact Women being less productive than men (and that contributing to the pay gap) is apparently not news.

@LexyTopping writes "[m]en should work less and their employers and the government should help them to do so in order to close the gender pay gap" (google.com/amp/s/amp.theg…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping On page 5 of _The State of Pay: Demystifying the Gender Pay Gap_ (May 2018), Institute for Public Policy Research writes as part of their 3rd recommendation that "[c]hanging men’s working behaviour is a crucial component of closing the gender pay gap" (ippr.org/files/2018-05/…).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping "To reduce the gender stratification of full and part-time roles, and reduce the maternity penalty, employers could… introduce dedicated, paid paternity leave…, to advertise roles as flexible by default, and to encourage men to partake in job share arrangements." Id., p. 5.

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping The @IPPR continues stating that the pay gap "doesn’t take into account any of the drivers of different pay levels, such as age, qualifications, experience or seniority, or type of work" (ippr.org/files/2018-05/…, p. 6).

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping "As such, a firm-level gender pay gap does not indicate discriminatory practices, and is not unlawful" (ippr.org/files/2018-05/…, p. 6).

…so, @honnasiri and @Tekla_Too, in the United States of America 🇺🇸, why can’t women (on average) work as many hours as men (on average)?

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @threadreaderapp, please unroll.

@Tekla_Too @honnasiri @SeptimusSulla @sesmiel @anon95123 @SSingh_06 @gypsy_nilima @PoonamSharma__ @PhilMitchell83 @Oneiorosgrip @BLS_gov @IPPR @pewresearch @TIME @usnews @PolitiFact @PunditFact @LexyTopping @threader_app, please compile.