Thread 8 of 22 - 9 - 2021.
SJ: now referring to series of correspondence between DRW and Dr Hindmarsh and Dr H's complaint. Quote 'furthermore I believe that a clinician was inflicting torture on Patient A by refusing to prescribe hormones for A'
SJ cont: I brought this up because you said that you respect the protocols of GIDS. DRW: I was attempting to acknowledge that other protocols and approaches can exist and can be followed. SJ: do you respect that he was following protocols.
DRW: the clinician in question wrote the protocol that he is following and I set out my feelings in detail for Prof Hindmarsh. SJ: you also said the Patient A was severely distressed. When and how was this distress presented?
DRW: mother of A previously mentioned that A's behaviour was horrendous, episodes of violence and doesn't care about anything. Behaviour troubles me immensely and is tearing our family apart. With tears streaming down my face I ask for your help again.
DRW cont: There was an interruption in A's care caused by another clinician. When I say I was presented by a severely distressed child, this is what I meant. SJ: referring to bone density problems arising from use of blockers in Patient A.
SJ cont: how is this correct if the plan was to stay on blockers until prior to the 16th birthday. DRW: in terms of blockers being correctly introduced, Patient A was part of the early intervention process at GIDS and had earlier access to blockers than 12.
SJ: what about harm from blockers? DRW: it is a definite consideration, and it comes from my experience with treating people with ovaries. Also I was feeling very passionate when I wrote to Dr H.
SJ: You said 'NHS England is out of date with international practice and acting illegally in regards to transgender health'. DRW: I was feeling passionate and perhaps illegal is overstating the case but the NHS constitution promising treatment in 18 weeks.
SJ: is your role as a voice for the trans community perhaps driving your approach too much? DRW: no, I'm a doctor first and would never lose sight of the medicine. SJ: Are you sure that your judgement becomes blurred by your passion and your advocacy?
DRW: no, I disagree. My judgement has not been blurred.
SJ: when you came to prescribe for A, (April 2016) did you have a clear plan for when to communicate with the Tavistock about Patient A? DRW: no I did not. SJ: you had to come to terms with the fact that they had a treatment plan that you disagreed with.
SJ cont: it was inevitable that your prescribing was going to become known? DRW: I had heard through the grapevine that patients of the Tavistock were being threatened for seeking private care. I was naive in thinking that a clinician would contact the GP and
DRW cont: persuade them to withdraw treatment. SJ: when we look at this chronology and the treatment plan, and you say you weren't aware of the possible reaction of the UCLH and Tavistock. Once you had prescribed did you have a duty to communicate with GIDS on this matter.
SJ cont: you must have thought about how to communicate with GIDS that there would be changes. DRW: I was hoping that I could work together with GIDS on the treatment of Patient A. It was my naivete.
SJ: It wasn't naïveté, you were actually saying 'I'm right, and they are wrong'. You should have fronted up to UCLH and explained what you had done and determined how to work together. You left it to the GP to do.
DRW: I didn't leave it to the GP, the GP chose to communicate with Dr Butler. I did not communicate with the Tavistock because the mother has asked me not to. It was not in the interests of the doctor patient relationship for me to communicate with GIDS.
SJ: you should have not agree with the mother of A that you would not communicate with the GIDS. You were the only source of hormones. It was always going to come out. The GP was going to talk to GIDS.
DRW: I don't believe that the GP had a duty to inform the other specialist that another specialist had been involved. I wish that Dr Butler had chosen to contact me rather than take the route that was taken and why we are here.
SJ: have you been a party to other shared care agreements. DRW: Yes. SJ: if another specialist had written to you and said I am now prescribing in conflict with the existing treatment would you not have brought this to the attention of the initial specialist.
DRW: I don't know what I would have done. I would have done the best thing for the patient. SJ: why did you not write to GIDS about what you had done? Were you not worried about the consequences? DRW: no I was not worried.
Tribunal chair: have we not exhausted this topic of disclosure we have spent quite a lot of time on it? Now discussing whether examination of DRW will conclude on schedule. I'm trying to manage the balance of cross examination. SJ: will try and finish on Patient A by 5 pm.
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Afternoon session about to start.
Simon Jackson (SJ), QC for the GMC, will continue to examine Dr. Helen Webberley's (DW) decision-making from 2016 re. Patient C, a 10 year old living as a boy. Jackson will pick up the issue of consent to medical treatment.
[Thread 3].
Opening remarks: Panel Chair says they would like to hear from Patient A and Patient A's mother tomorrow.
SJ: Dr Webberley can I take you back to Patient C, to deal with issue of consent. 9th Feb 2016. Looking at the records, around the timing of the patient's consent signature, what was the dialogue b/w you, Patient C and patient C's mother?
The session is now resuming with Simon Jackson's (QC for the GMC) examination of Dr. Helen Webberley's decision-making re. Patient B who was 16 years old when first referred to Dr. Webberley, in 2016.
[Thread No. 2]
SJ: Can I take you back to p.446 on Patient B. Against background of issue of how possible changes would be managed and desirability of managing them within MDT with specialist endocrinology input...
SJ ctd: You deal with issue of commencement with analogues and then say: 'we could also swap to injections to T as well, but the one big issue is who will do the prescribing, will your GP be happy to do this?' Is this in context of increased dose?
We are starting. We are continuing with Simon Jackson's examination of HW. She is being asked to speak to Professor Hindmarsh's complaint to the GMRC.
24th March 2016 is a letter from HW to Patient A's GP. But HW not sure if it's in the bundle and asking the chair. This may be returned to later.
IS (for defence) has interrupted to give important update. At 8am this morning, GMC has said it no longer wants to call Patient A or their mother - after hearing the evidence from DW yesterday. It's a surprise, says IS.
Thread 9. SJ: back to Patient A. Discussion of whether counselling was required or needed. DRW: it was never my practice to say 'you must have this before that, or that before you're allowed this'.
SJ: a consent form was sent on 23 March, is this the first time they had seen the consent form? DRW: I don't remember how we did the consent. SJ: did you have a dialogue and talk through the consent form with the patient? DRW: we talked through the issues,
DRW cont: I don't remember if we got out the piece of paper and went over it line by line. SJ: should there not have been a dialogue between you, the patient and parents. DRW: the piece of paper is one part of the consent process. Consent is an
Thread 7 (accidentally ended Thread 6). 22 - 9 - 2021. SJ: now discussing Patient A going for follow up with Prof B on 3 March. Prof B says A is 'initially depressed and angry calmer now'. A did not react well to blockers. Is this a pattern of not settling on blockers.
DRW: I understand the depression and anger was to do with not progressing to testosterone rather than a poor reaction to the blocker. SJ: at the time you are making a judgement to prescribe testosterone, when did you meet A? DRW: 22 March.
SJ: documentation of consultation between DRW, A, A's mother. Some confusion that A's mother says there is already a prescription on 22 March 2016. DRW says first prescription was April 2016.
Thread 6: 22 - 9 - 2021. SJ: you did not indicate that periodic review, follow up and reassessment was required. DRW: that's not how I phrase it but I was continuing to give holistic care and monitoring. SJ: Dr MW says 'counselling should continue'.
Did this occur? DRW: We talked about it. I don't recall what happened but I see that we referred to Shelley. Also A was getting support from Mermaids youth groups and resources. SJ: should you not follow up on the referral?
DRW: my approach is to make services available to patient but not to mandate the counselling at any particular time but enforcing such services is not beneficial to the therapeutic relationship.