Thread by @kf_music

This is the AMTA Business Meeting live tweet thread. Business meeting starts at 6pm Eastern/5pm Central.

This thread will include information from the business meeting as I understand it, and I encourage you all to add additional context as needed.

Another quick note: I may not be able to respond to all tweets in the moment, so please be patient or look to others for responses/discourse.

The meeting is starting with all professional members checking in via Google Forms to establish quorum.

Based on the links at the bottom of the viewing window, there will be some quick business (approval of agenda, minutes, etc.), then the meeting will move to Zoom for the "interactive portion" of the meeting.

President Deb Williams addresses the Assembly: "I recognize there has been a desire for movement and change for many years.... However, the past two years have been an incredibly difficult road for AMTA..."

Pres Wiliams con't: "After many questions where responses were challenged, I was intimidated, I was nervous, and I felt overwhelmed.... I may not be the most eloquent speaker when pushed into a corner, but I never set out or intend to cause harm."

Pres Williams con't: "I recognize and understand that [my words on Tuesday have caused harm].... Today, I apologize for the harm that my responses have caused to any member of the Association. I apologize especially to minoritized and marginalized members..."

Pres Williams con't: "Have I always been aware of the harm being caused to minoritized and marginalized members...? No. Has the Association always taken action...? No."

Pres Williams con't: Some people want to pit the Association and membership as "us vs. them," "but we are all one AMTA."

Williams says the BOD is willing to work with membership and affinity groups to enact change and to build up the association.

Pres Williams con't: "Now is not the time to break down into factions. We need to come together and move forward. First and foremost, AMTA is a membership organization..."

Pres Williams con't: "I had plans to come here tonight to update the membership on our successes," including initiatives and partnerships, esp. with Ben Platt and Renee Fleming, "but I think I've said enough." She directs members to the report book.

Pres Williams addresses the resignations of people like Drs. Marisol Norris, Natasha Thomas, and Melita Belgrave, from their various positions in the Association. She invites anyone interested in filling rolls like DEI Chair to contact the BOD.

Pres Williams says that as soon as her term as President is up, "my service on this board is over." She encourages anyone to step up and take on these leadership roles: "It's worth it."

Treasurer's report from Ed Kahler: successes include shifting fiscal year to Jan-Dec, receipt of forgiveness for first PPP loans (and just received forgiveness for second PPP loans last month), and the launch of a new publication.

September '21 numbers look good, but this is because of the PPP loans, those numbers may be inflated (PPP loans are considered a liability until they're forgiven). There was also a decrease in membership and conference attendance, as well as loss in investments.

Good news in all of this: we have plenty of reserves, and we may have to tap into them to help fund AMTA initiatives.

Bad news: there may be a dues increase (there hasn't been one since 2015). Kahler recommended NO dues increase for 2023 (approved by BOD).

To avoid a dues increase, we need to investigate non-dues revenue streams* and review membership categories/prices.

*It's a little concerning that this hasn't been a consideration already??

The review of membership categories/prices is meant to be more equitable and accessible to everyone, regardless of financial sitaution.

Judy Simpson with Gov. Relations update: 14 states now have licensure (newest: Maryland and Iowa), with active legislation still pending. All states except Montana and Alaska have either active state task forces or legislation.

Rebecca Preddie with Federal advocacy update: Lots of activity in regard to telehealth, and AMTA is paying close attention to the infrastructure bill being negotiated in DC.

November 7-13, 2021, is Allied Health Professions Week. AMTA plans to participate in virtual networking events and sending a call to action to promote music therapy as an allied health profession.

Education and Clinical Trainings report from Alejandra Ferrer:

APAC is reviewing 15 program applications for re/approval. Since April, four new programs approved -- three masters, one post-bacc.

New internship resources are approved and can be found on AMTA website.

Continuing Ed: 23 add-on courses at this conference -- 14 approved for LCAT credit, and 3 are free.

Natalie Generally Kirk giving committee reports.

Clinical Practice committee has been planning different networking events in their different regions and at this conference. Also reviewing policies to include/promote DEI.

Professional Advocacy has been busy as usual with addressing misrepresentation in job listing/job fairs, and promoting music therapy in the media.

Officer candidates! Two candidates for VP-elect: @LeslieAHenry and @JennySokira! Each gets 60 seconds to speak.

.@LeslieAHenry speaks first: "I truly believe in the power of people" and believes we can do "incredible things" if we work together. One way to activate change is to review AMTA's mission -- if we center support on MTs, we can help them do better work.

.@JennySokira speaks next: Wants to develop and implement equitable training opportunities. Focuses on the AMTA core values, says they "call us to focus on the harm caused to music therapists" and work toward "healing and wholeness."

@JennySokira Two nominees for President-elect: @snellmtbc (who is having connection issues and is unable to address the meeting) and Wendy Woolsey.

Woolsey: Innovation "excited me," but not at the expense of historically marginalized identities. "If we create a culture of putting people first," we can develop a thriving community.

On Monday, you'll get to vote, and you have 10 days to complete your ballot.

Pres-elect Gooding: "Many of you are aware of accusations of plagiarism levied against me" and two other authors. She has intentionally remained silent, states she's still working to "understand the entirety of the situation." Will share when she's able to.

Gooding: U of Minnesota did an independent investigation of one of the authors, found no instance of plagiarism. "I acknowledge that we made errors that caused harm," acknowledges systems in place that continue to perpetuate harm.

Gooding: "I apologize to Brea Murakami," states she's not able to share much more than that because of the confidential process. "It is important to hold space for others' perspectives, even when its uncomfortable."

Gooding: "I will do my best to not just speak about change, but to build an AMTA... that truly welcomes diverse voices, identities, and experiences."

In Memoriam reel honoring three music therapists who died this year: Celeste Alderete, Dr. Rosemary Ganzert Fischer, and Kellie Marie Schallert.

Pres Deb Williams makes a motion to move the new business discussion to Zoom (the type of discussion for this new business is not conducive to the conference platform).

The motion carries. See you on Zoom!

Before the new business begins, the journal editors (Blythe LeGasse and Laura Beer) are addressing the meeting: "We recognize inequities exist that perpetuate harm.... We recognize we lacked structures... to adequately address ethical concerns."

Beers: While special social justice issues were well-intentioned, "we should have started by creating and equitable foundation."

LeGasse: "At this moment, we wish to affirm our support for CEO Coates.... We would like to give her grace and time for forward motion in [AMTA]"

Dr. Sangeeta Swamy asks Pres Williams about what plans are in place to make sure AMTA DEI committee slots are filled equitably and chosen by membership. Says DEI committee has not had a chance to review a recent letter.

Williams says she is looking for someone to chair the DEI committee until the new term in January, and says this does not mean they can't serve a full term in the future.

Heather Wagner says she appreciates the efforts toward transparency and "looks forward to a day when we don't have to hear apologies" from leadership. Asks for clarification on an earlier statement.

Williams doesn't exactly clarify if she plans to step down from Past Pres role, but states she intends to stay on through first stages of strategic planning.

Strategic planning timeline: BOD is meeting with a consultant on Monday to begin an assessment process before moving forward with proper strategic planning meeting.

Still no clarity on this, but based on the discussion around the AMTA President appointing people in open positions, it sounds like Deb will not be taking on the role of Immediate Past President.

MingYuan Low asks: has the Exec Board reflected on the harm that has been caused? What changes need to be made before appointing new DEI positions? If these biases/events haven't been examined, when will that happen?

Pres Williams is not addressing the reflection piece, just outlines the process for filling the DEI role vacated by Dr. Melita Belgrave.

CEO Coates says it's important to consult with DEI committee to make sure they are included in the conversation.

Zoom chat is divided: some folks are concerned that Angie Snell hasn't had a chance to speak, while others are asking for an answer to MingYuan's question.

Chat question: Will Lori Gooding recuse herself from any matters related to the plagiarism accusations against her, Silverman, and Yinger?

Others are still asking for a direct answer to MingYuan's question.

Williams looking at the chat for questions ("I'm not sure if I want to read all of these comments") which are primarily focused on asking for a direct answer to MingYuan's question.

Dr. Belgrave addresses Williams: "Address the comments and questions in the chat, please... all the way back to MingYuan and Susan Hadley."

Williams continues to address process, continues to not address the issues of systemic bias and reflection on issues of harm.

Gooding clarifies the actual content of the question and states she would be happy to address the question.

Side note: it's interesting that Williams is deflecting by referencing things being "hard to read" in the chat (she blamed her hearing aids on Tuesday night).

Williams, frustrated: "It's hard to think clearly when you feel like you're in front of a firing squad."

Brian Abrams, in the chat: "Some members of our community feel like “they are in front of a fire squad” each and every day."

Gooding: "We've got to do better, we've got to sit with the discomfort and with the difficult situations.... As I move into the President role, I'm willing to sit with those discussions and address the harm..."

Andi Hunt asks for clarification if Lori Gooding is recusing herself from her plagiarism investigation.

Gooding clarifies she has only participated in that investigation as one of the parties involved. Also clarifies her role is only to ask for reports/updates.

Kevin Bock asks: What is the Board's plan to restore trust and faith with music therapists who have been harmed?

Gooding: "The real fundamental issue is that we have to change our structure and governance," including a board where all members are voting members.

Dr. Belgrave in the chat is livid that she is being talked over by leadership and how she was completely dismissed after leading the Board through a White Dominant Culture training: "It doesn't feel like my teaching... [was] actually recieved."

Scott Horowitz, in the chat, notes that while the BOD talks about "increased communication," they failed to communicate that Drs. Melita Belgrave and Michael Silverman stepped down from their Board roles.

Dr. Belgrave points out that her training was supposed to point out how the BOD is not able to hear marginalized voices. Her training was not received well, and she's frustrated that "now the conversation is that we will magically do better."

Belgrave: "Who would I talk to" to fill her seat as DEI chair. "I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy!"

Williams, immediately after Belgrave speaks: "I'm sorry you feel that way..."

Belgrave: "That's not an apology!"

Williams: "I'm sorry you feel hurt..."

MingYuan: "We've had so many conversations. When do conversations turn into a plan?... We're all talked out at this point!"

Williams said there is a "hard stop" at 8pm Eastern. Some people in the chat (including me) are asking to extend the time.

Williams says the Zoom link expires at 8pm so the meeting cannot continue. Much protest in the chat and from people on the board, lots of people offering Zoom links.

Williams needs to leave for something, Lori Gooding will take over the conversation.

(HUGE shout out to CEO Adonia Coates for not allowing Deb Williams to end the conversation.)

Natalie Generally Kirk: "We have to examine where we are right now, because everything goes back to the bylaws.... It's a bylaws revision that needs to be made when we find the gaps and holes."

Kirk: "We can't just get up and leave the table. We have to stay at the table" to get things done.

.@bachinaminuet, in the chat: "... this feels like asking someone who's been abused to give their abuser a 2nd chance."

Dr. Marisol Norris addresses the Zoom: The Board is engaging in rewriting the narrative of what's happening. "We don't identify what we're talking about or who we're talking about," just identifying "passive aggressiveness" and "division."

Norris: The Board models what music therapy is supposed to look like, needs to take the calls and concerns into consideration to lead to a cultural shift toward progress.

Norris: "You say you understand and you hear, but your restorying is telling us something different.... 'Firing squad' and 'us and them' isn't coming from membership, it's coming from the board."

"AMTA and music therapists are not synonymous."

Norris: "True accountability, by this point, would move toward reflection and asking, 'Am I suitable for leadership for all of AMTA?'"

Norris: "There also needs to be a consideration of what resignations TRULY need to be happening right now."

Norris: "Yes, you can be in a point of leadership and make mistakes.... That's not the question at this point. The questions are your ability to govern, to be impartial and ethically sound..."

Norris: "There's violence on our screens every day. The conversations we've had tonight were violent.... The violence [the BOD] does is tied to how MTs treat their clients."

Norris: "Everyone here is responsible for holding accountable ourselves and our leadership."

(Side note: I'm thankful this meeting is being recorded, because Dr. Norris spoke a lot of hard truths that required intentional listening rather than trying to transcribe them.)

Norris: "AMTA does a great job in our white supremacist culture to use minorities against each other, and it's happening again and again and again and again."

Dr. Norris calling out the BOD for how they've referred to activist members in the past: "They call us whiners, complainers, that we're having our powwows...."

Someone in the chat said they were not aware of Dr. Belgrave's resignation and asked that more context be given about that resignation. The floor was given to Dr. Belgrave.

Dr. Belgrave stated that the process started in May when they were discussing virtual conference platforms. She created a six-month plan that addressed personal identity and white dominant culture...

Dr. Belgrave said BOD should look at demographic data to find the starting point. BOD asked for a DEI consultant to start the anti-bias training process (no Dr. Belgrave, whose literal job it was)...

In September, Dr. Belgrave did not plan to do DEI training because of situations at ASU, also points out that there was not enough time in the agenda to do a legit training.

CEO Coates approached Dr. Belgrave because "things are going to be a mess at conference" (Dr. Belgrave pointed out things are *always* a mess at conference).

Dr. Belgrave did an apology training, says that the apologies were "amazing" & better than tonight's apology.

Dr. Belgrave sees Drs. Norris and Thomas open letter, says she feels "used" for giving the BOD the tools for a non-apology, and promptly resigns.

"If you can't hear me from May 2020, you'll never hear me."

Dr. Belgrave: "All voting members on the Board are voted on by the membership. Where are the two DEI candidates for January?"

Dr. Belgrave pointed out that in the three weeks from when she resigned to Tuesday night, no one reached out to the DEI committee until someone pointed out they needed a DEI chair on the Board.

Clarification from the chat: "the DEI committee was not contacted until this Wednesday. This contact was made by Deb, asking if any of us would be interested in serving as interim DEI chair or interim seat on the BOD."

Brea Murakami addresses the Zoom call, says that half of her blog post was about the ethics board but she hasn't heard any updates on that aspect of things. Would love to hear from someone on the ethics board for an update.

Sarah Gagnon moves to bring a vote of no confidence to the current board.

The question right now is with the Parliamentarian of if this is possible, and if there is a quorum to do this.

(Quorum is 2/3 of the Assembly, 50% of membership, and 6 voting members of the Board.)

Angie Snell says that we shouldn't be burdened by protocol: the vote could happen now and may need to be redone next Wednesday at the Assembly meeting.

What is a vote of "no confidence"?
boardeffect.com/blog/vote-of-n…

Meredith Pizzi speaking: would like to make sure everyone knows what they're voting on and what the end goal is. Is it to remove the entire BOD? If so, what procedures are there to replace everyone?

.@DrMomMTBC: "I want to dare us to dream radically." Calls for a drastic change, says that the students are hearing us talk and it's getting harder for her to justify being a professional member of AMTA.

There is no such thing as a "no confidence" vote in the bylaws, so the vote would be largely symbolic.

@StephenieSofie1 amplifies comments from the chat and Dr. Norris: "we should be asking Board members if they think they are fit to serve."

@StephenieSofie1 .@StephenieSofie1 again: Membership was asked to take meaningful action by folks with marginalized identities, and a symbolic vote with no teeth seems to run counter to that.

@StephenieSofie1 .@StephenieSofie1: "If we're going to ask for resignations, we need to ask for specific people to resign."

CEO Coates says that because there is no AMTA bylaw that outlines a "no confidence" vote, we have to use Michigan non-profit laws, which requires 2/3 votes of all membership (approx. 1000 people).

Dr. Debbie Bates taking Dr. Marisol Norris' question seriously: "I've been sitting with the question of if I'm the right person for the job, and the answer is I don't know...."

Dr. Bates: "There's a part of me that's tempted to give you my resignation, because I don't want to be hurting people or be associated with people who are hurting people."

Brian Abrams reminds the group to not hyperindividualize and punish people in the process, "we need to come from a place of reflexiveness"

Cherie Riley expresses frustration: "Every year we hear the AMTA President apologize for something.... Why don't we let someone from the group who has been harmed run the organization?"

Riley: "I want to talk about music therapy, I want to talk about getting licensure..., and I don't want to be talking about all of this other crap."

Resource from MAR on anti-oppressive accountability (h/t @StephenieSofie1): mar-amta.org/wp-content/upl…

An honest tl;dr of the last 20 minutes is that several white folks opted to answer Marisol's question in front of the group. The chat is attempting to call them in and saying that now is not the time to talk about how hard it is to be an ally.

CharCarol Fisher speaks to the whole group: The BOD needs to have a meeting by themselves to reflect on Dr. Norris' question. If they don't feel like they can effectively lead, they need to resign.

CEO Coates says a "no confidence" vote is symbolic due to not enough voting members, "but if the whole Board resigns, we don't have a plan.... [if they all resign] we have nowhere to go, we have no plan... it would be catastrophic."

Michele Forinash clarifies that a "no confidence" vote isn't to remove the BOD, but to instead give a wake up call and for them to reflect on what is being said and addressed.

Sarah Gagnon amends her motion: a symbolic vote of no confidence and for the Board to reflect on their fitness to serve

Kevin Bock, like many in the chat, asks if Drs. Norris & Belgrave's comments be recorded and sent to the Board. "It's not up to me to rephrase their comments"

CEO Coates clarifies: not everyone has consented to sharing the recording externally, so it would be illegal to do so.

Sarah Gagnon moves to adjust the motion to wording by @AndreaHunt7: Ask current BOD and nominees to reflect on their fitness to serve, and to resign/withdrawal if they do not feel fit.

@AndreaHunt7 Final motion: "Move that the membership has no confidence in the board of directors of AMTA. We make this symbolic vote as an indictment of our harmful current system and processes and each of our parts in it, and that current board members and those on the ballot..."

Motion con't: "... for the next election reflect on their fitness regarding diversity, equity, and inclusion to serve on the board at this time. If they do not feel fit to serve, those members should resign from their position or from their candidacy."

Much of the discussion right now is around the phrasing of "no confidence" in the motion -- the group is trying to craft a motion that reflect what Drs. Norris and Belgrave said in their comments: to have the BOD reflect on their fitness to serve.

Final_final_amendment_FINAL: "Move that the membership acknowledges our harmful current system and processes and each of our parts in it, and that current board members and those on the ballot for the next election..."

Movement con't: "... reflect on their fitness regarding diversity, equity, inclusion, and justice to serve on the board at this time. If they do not feel fit to serve, those members should resign or resign from their candidacy."

Voting now, though some folks' thoughts did not seem to be taken into account.

Voting results:

YEA -- 75%
NAY -- 25%

*NAY votes also counted as abstentions

Motion on the floor to end the meeting, and it is seconded.

Meeting is adjourned.

A quick question of the recording: video/transcript is not going to be made available, but if people give consent to have their specific comments released, it will.

There will, of course, be minutes for this meeting.

And that's the official end of the meeting and this thread. Thanks for sticking around for almost five hours.

Get some rest, do some reflecting, and we'll see you all in the morning!!

(A tongue in cheek request, but if you feel so inclined: ca$happ and v€nmo are both kfleminem)