Thread by @MattDrapps

Issues in Human Sexuality Live Read, by me. From 1991 (90 years after Havelock Ellis published Sexual Inversion, 30 years after Robert Wood's book calling for full inclusion). Is this the most contemporary Church of England account of sexuality prior to LLF?

Reprinted in 2003.

I'm not going page by page and line by line, especially because I speak an entirely different language to the writers - one in which I do not need to finish my sentences with quite random Bible verse quotes often unrelated to the real Content. #IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

"In Genesis 2 the man, as a royal figure, has authority over the woman."

As a Royal Figure? 👑 WTF?

The man has authority because he gives her a name? 🧙‍♂️

It will take men away from their family homes. In all cultures? I think not.

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

"The ultimate authority in their partnership is vested in the man."

Okay sounds abusive, but go on

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

"in the context of a well-to-do family" is doing a lot of heavy lifting for the Proverbs 31 woman.

What of other women? I'm immediately reminded of Sojourner Truth's speech, 'Ain't I a Woman?'

Not "the woman's punishment for breaking the divinely ordered hierarchy of relations between the sexes by leading her man astray" I BEG

🧐 Now as one can see, the Wo-man is responsible for MEN controlling the right to divorce.

Not "a desire for him so strong it makes her his slave"

Britney found shaking.

These crusty white old men really said, Women are responsible for the subjection of women.

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

🖐️ Excuse me, why did no one tell me the OT men were laying hands on each others junk to make vows? 👀

The Old Testament' version of greet one another with a holy kiss, or...

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

Indeed The Prophets ruined some concepts of sex for me, via Accelerated Christian Education and Purity Culture, for SURE.

A fascinating acknowledgement.

"They (the prophets) intensified their language about unfaithfulness, painting the physical act itself as filthy and shameful." - indeed they did.

A wild Tobit appears.

I hadn't heard of gay Plato #queerhistory

The Issues in Human Sexuality group acknowledging evolution. Someone let the Biblical Literalists know.

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

One good thing here is the document clearly stating that you can't use the Sodom story to justify homophobia.

Something the LLF teaching materials take a step back on and present uncritically as a passage that is anti-gay #LLF #LLFread

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

About the Leviticus rules, the document is as vague as vague can be.

Paraphrased: we don't apply them all, but we apply some, but not all, but definitely some but surely not all but surely some (and but some we mean the anti-gay verses.)

"Ask the Holy Spirit"

They have a discussion for pages about how the Bible is not clear, and then they suddenly and decisively finish with a random clear statement that is not drawn from the discussion at all.

AT ALL.

"Only by living within those boundaries (which we have randomly drawn up) are Christians to achieve holiness"

Even though they defined holiness entirely differently only one page previous.

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

Ahh the classic "balance physical interaction and commitment levels" from heavy petting to ultimately marriage. I've read that somewhere....🤔

IN EVERY PURITY CULTURE BOOK.

Don't try to end abusive marriages, folks, just keep loving

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

Quite rightly, relationship (here, marriage) is something that helps each partner better serve their community (which I think applies in all kinds of sex with enthusiastic consent, even in providing one another with joy or other needs) BUT

When it comes to discussions of Lesbian, Gay or Bi relationships, things like mutual support are all but forgotten every time the same-sex relationship discussion occurs which is usually just sex sex sex.

Okay WHAT THE HELL.

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

"For all these positive reasons God's perfect will for marriage is chastity before marriage and then a life long relationship" - - what wait hours did one draw that conclusion from the previous commentary in the chapter. Once again they've just pulled a Statement out of thin air

Unless they are directly linking 'divorce' to any union and dissolution of a relationship, I don't really know where that assumption comes from that sex before marriage isn't it.

Are people not capable of making their own informed consent decisions about when it is a marriage?

That's one (1) mention of disability so far, here cited as a reason someone might be single.

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

Just cos y'allcan't have sex with your friends, doesn't mean that no one can.

Also IF this is the approach, put it earlier in the argument before you make your sudden Statement, not as an afterthought.

There some contradictions in here. It's important that husband and wife are friends but that friends don't have sex.

Excuse moi.

Also, who hasn't been in church where mixed gender friendships are constantly frustrated by people insisting one or the other is in 'danger'

"(Friendship) can only flourish within the framework of chastity." Says whom though?

FIRST OF ALL, they've picked an alternate translation of The Bible just to find one that said Marriage instead of Eunoch, and second, "Celibacy cannot be prescribed for anyone" if a powerful phrase. Better not see any prescribing later...

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

'Hot' telephone lines have made an appearance. 📞

TW. Ignorance of trans existence

How they dragging trans people into a segment on 'broken' SEX?????????

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

How ARROGENT do they have to be to INVENT a new word to discuss gay people in 1991????

To put it into context, the organisation featured in the movie "Pride", Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners, raised £22,500 to support the miner strikes in 1984-1985, five years before this document was published

If you read #IssuesInHumanSexuality without context, you'd think they were the first people to coin a word for any concept of LGB+ love/sex/relationship.

Lesbian and Gay was right there, and had been for YEARS.

How RUDE do you have to be to not ask and just invent a new term instead. I'm actually fuming. #homophile

*yeah, it might be used by a few other contemporary publications at the time, but its also just rude. It's not 'Homophiles Support the Miners'

I am BEGGING them to pick up a book (and by a book, I mean Sexual Inversion by Havelock Ellis)

As was already pointed out this week, here's #IssuesInHumanSexuality questioning whether future gays should be eliminated.

See also:

https://twitter.com/charliebelllive/status/1454469621495521293?t=pOnRFw6-dwTDs3GBTcLPoQ&s=19

See also:

https://twitter.com/MattDrapps/status/1427199131609620485?t=pOnRFw6-dwTDs3GBTcLPoQ&s=19

I see the victim blaming from the first chapter (against women) has switched to active LGBT+ people fighting to survive as causing others who 'were sympathetic to be hostile'.

Of course.

That said, this section suggests that there is no place for homophobia on the church and that's not been realised thirty years later.

Huh?

Here natural means whatever serves their cause. Homosexual love is compared to lying.

But in the next paragraph, Natural means something else entirely (and ignores the existence of those who cannot have children for any reason).

Um.............

ERMMMM.......

I screamed. Not the penis in the vulva/vagina being sacramental.

Only one chapter ago you said that using sex as idol worship and black magic is not okay.

Mother, I am SCREAMING. You plucked this out of thin air!!!!!!!

Actually having straight sex doesn't make you better qualified to be a parent.

This paragraph doesn't even make sense. Where are the linking sentences?

Paraphrased: "gay people are not complete"

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

Yes to this paragraph, some gay Christians will decide, through conscience, to be in sexual relationships and should be welcomed in church with the understanding that this does not reduce their spirituality, religious choice or presence. I agree.

#IssuesInHumanSexuality

Fuck these bi-phobic crusty old pricks.

Two pages back was absolutely crystal clear that attraction is not sinful, even same sex attraction.

Wtf is bisexual activity? Not sitting correctly in a chair? Adding a purple shade to the light?

Literally the chapter before states that Gay people need to have a chosen personal sexual ethic. But bisexual 'activity' can't even exist?

#IssuesInHumanSexuality #drappissues

🚮 🚮 🚮

WHAT THE FUCK???????? Their three possible issues with Homophiles include Bisexuality, Polyamory and PEDOPHILIA. with a tiny comment that this also includes straight people - BUT THEY DIDN'T PUT IT IN THE STRAIGHT SECTION DID YA.

You sick fucks. #IssuesInHumanSexuality

Having exclusively mixed-gender partnered clergy presents an inaccessiblity for LGBTQ+ people, but, what, we don't matter?

#IssuesInHumanSexuality

This paragraph says that clergy both can't be good examples to people who are different from them (if clergy gay and congregants straight) AND that clergy can be good examples to people who are different from them (if clergy straight and congregants gay) in ONE PARAGRAPH.

🚮 🚮 🚮

In conclusion the document examines and discusses, but then throws it the discussion and reflection when it comes to concluding statements, every time, and the concluding statements literally spring up from nowhere.

They also treat clergy and those seeking ordination awfully.

@threadreaderapp Please unroll, dearest