Thread by @doufudanshi

ON THE JIANG FAMILY PRECEPT: 「明知不可而为之」

EXR and 7S both translate this as “Attempt the impossible.” CQL subtitles translate this as “To try what shouldn’t be tried.”

however, its true meaning—derived from Confucianism—is entirely different.

#豆腐男子翻译 #mdzs

first, here’s my translation of the Jiang family precept (this will be relevant later!):

明知不可而为之
Do what you know you cannot [do / achieve].

the Jiang family precept (top) is actually a slightly easier-to-parse variation of a tenet from《论语》The Analects of Confucius (bottom):

「明知不可而为之」
「知其不可而为之」

(both mean the same thing.)

idiomatically, 知其不可而为之 is used when someone insists on doing what they know is futile/impossible—i.e. undertaking a Sisyphean task.

this surface-level/idiomatic usage means the Jiang precept in MDZS can actually be confusing for native CN speakers as well.

there are also positive spins on 知其不可而为之 :
- one must try X before writing it off as “impossible”
- not taking things lying down
- perseverance in the face of seemingly insurmountable adversity can turn a situation around

thus: “attempt the impossible.” however…

what’s lost in translation is its deeper Confucian *conceptual* meaning.

to explain, I will translate a couple of key paragraphs from the entry on 知其不可而为之 on Baidu Baike: baike.baidu.com/item/%E7%9F%A5…

“知其不可而为之 doesn’t mean you should insist on doing what you know you can’t achieve. Rather, in your actions, don’t ask yourself if you *can,* but if you *should.* It’s not about the result, but the journey—to have a clear conscience regardless of the outcome.”

“‘不可为’ is not that one is *unable* to do X. Rather, regular people view X as an impossibility, as wasted effort without reward (or even with negative repercussions), so they feel there’s *no reason* to do it. They act only after ensuring immediate results are guaranteed, (1/4)

act only after personal benefits are guaranteed, act only after benefits to their in-group are guaranteed, act only when benefits to the present-day are guaranteed—although these situations have differences, all are derived from the viewpoint of 事功 achieving merit. (2/4)

For the actions of virtuous 君子 noble gentlemen*, the most important thing is 道义 morality, virtue, and justice. Achievement of merit is not placed over virtue, but rather found within virtue. (3/4)

*君子 is a term for men who embody a CN culturally-specific moral standard.

Actions that don’t align with virtue may have individual and temporary benefits, but will lead to grave consequences. Actions according to virtue may not have individual and temporary benefits, but collective and enduring benefits to the whole will be found within.” (4/4)

hopefully you can already see how the Jiang precept relates to JC’s and WWX’s actions! but I’ll dive into it a little more in the passages it appears in, along with thoughts on the translation, “attempt the impossible!”

🚨⚠️ spoilers beyond 7S book 1 starting now!!! ⚠️🚨

WWX truly embodies the Jiang precept. again and again, he does good deeds because he believes he should, despite the lack of any personal gain, despite the unclear outcome.

his actions are placed in stark contrast with how JC (as WWX’s foil) responds to the same situations.

mdzs spoiler // this is why JFM scolds JC after Xuanwu cave. WWX saves everyone by distracting Xuanwu instead of leaving—but JC believes WWX should’ve saved himself.

JC does good—working tirelessly to save WWX—but wouldn’t have done so if only LWJ or a stranger were trapped—

mdzs spoiler // because what do the deaths of LWJ & JZX have to do with his family? JC chooses to act only when it benefits him, his in-group, his present-day.

(yes, the irony is thick here. MXTX is a v intentional writer. individual/temp v. collective/enduring benefits indeed.)

mdzs spoiler // this is why JC brings up the Jiang precept so bitterly regarding the Wens and his core—because he knows his faults, and constantly sees them reflected back at him as WWX keeps making choices that he knows he never would.

(plus, you know. daddy issues)

mdzs spoiler // narratively, this is also a reason why WWX does not find out about A-Yuan until the very end.

WWX believed that all the Wens died, his efforts ultimately futile—yet continued to do good in his next life. this is what MXTX meant when she said WWX was an ideal.

because doing good is not about gaining *anything* in return, whether it be reward, gratitude, approval, success, or even the ability to pat yourself on the back. nor should one stop trying out of fear of losing something in the process. it’s simply about doing the right thing.

(I want to say more on this wrt Buddhism—imo WWX knows gain/loss is ephemeral, renunciates the self/worldly attachments, & *doesn't suffer* as much as EN fandom portrays—EN fandom applies western cultural lens to WWX who was written w an eastern one—but that's for another time~)

onto translation thoughts—

I don’t believe a good translation of the Jiang precept needs to (or even should) encompass the underlying Confucian concept—I think that should be done with a footnote.

that said, I have criticisms about “attempt the impossible.”

the literal meaning—which “attempt the impossible” loses—is needed because of JC & YZY’s wordplay. without it, you lose their delivery and snark. compare below!

不可 also means “should not,” so WWX doing X even when he knows he shouldn't = “literally” following the precepts, lol

so while “attempt the impossible” conveys the semi (?) idiomatic meaning (with a positive spin), it doesn’t convey the Confucian OR the literal meaning, which are the ways MXTX uses it!

therefore, no matter what context it appears in, it… doesn’t make sense :/

“Attempt the impossible”
+ catchy/succinct
- too self-contained, implies no underlying meaning
- doesn't work as literal or conceptual tl

“Do what you know you cannot”
+ better, not in spite of, but because directive is less clear
+ works as literal tl
+ “cannot” ~ “should not”

I’m not saying my translation is perfect or the only possibility! i’ll be the first to say it feels a lil wonky (& i’ve stared at it for so long i can’t tell) 🤪

(tho it mimics how my brain feels when reading chinese THIS condensed so maybe the vibe is ok 🥲 native speakers lmk)

but I do think it’s vital in translation—especially for a recurring phrase so integral to the book's themes—to take time to 1) determine the author’s intention (as MXTX makes tons of allusions to Confucianism, Buddhism, and Daoism in MDZS) and 2) ensure it makes sense in context!

i’ll end this thread with the first time the Jiang precept appears in the novel. this scene is really quite moving, and hopefully even more meaningful now, knowing the ideals WWX is reminding himself to continue to strive for, despite it all :) thanks for reading!!

for screen readers, here are all translated excerpts in this thread, with each associated tweet linked: privatter.net/p/8559053

WAIT it just hit me how incredibly funny this is actually bc EVERY LAN PRECEPT STARTS WITH 不可 and wwx goes around breaking ALL OF THEM 😭😭😭 明知不可而为之!!!! truly embodying the jiang precepts lmao!!!!!

https://twitter.com/doufudanshi/status/1497428154834640898

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