Thread by @nickwallis

Good morning from Fairfax County Court, Virginia where Day 10 of the Depp v Heard trial is well underway. You can watch the live feed on youtube here

Or follow these tweets for an overview of what’s going on. Everything I write is a summary...

… or paraphrase of what is happening in court. Nothing is a direct quote unless it is in “direct quotes”.

Yesterday saw the conclusion of Ben King’s testimony. Today we start with our first remote live testimony from Tara Roberts [TR], estate manager on Johnny Depp’s island.

She’s managed his island for 15 years - her job is to look after the staff and day to day operations on the island, houses, fuel, food etc. She describes it as like an estate in the middle of nowhere.

TR is shown a video of JD’s house on the island.

We go to Ex 348 another video of JD’s house. It shows the entrance to the closet in JD’s house.

TR works with 3 staff on the island.

TR gets a monthly salary. She also gets dividends and rental from other family properties she has.

TR describes JD as funny, kind generous and creates a family atmosphere with dinners together etc.

Guests included AH and her friends, Paul Bettany and his family.

TR had an incident where AH was asked to leave the island. So she arranged a flight for her to leave...

… and then a flight to come back.

Thought AH was nice, they were in love, cooked for each other - were a very happy couple.

Things changed, from TR’s perespective it became less about island live, more wine, more luggage, making sure certain toiletries were there.

During JD’s relationship TR says the island changed and became more formal with chefs and cooked dinners etc

TR remembers JD’s detox on the island in Aug 2014 - that he was going to be staying a month or longer, but they left after about a week or two. TR confirms JD...

… stayed in his own house for the detox. Saw him about once a day, but not to engage - not how it used to be. TR says “he was always asleep on the couch”. Saw no injuries on AH during Aug 2014.

TR says there was no property damage after they left.

TR was involved in all aspects of JD’s wedding to AH on the island - work permits, tents, shipping provisions in and out.
TR says she was given a schedule and list of provisions, numbers (people). Schedule was detailed - “dinner, dancing, drugs, music”

Privact was v important.

During the wedding there was a plane circling overhead, papping the whole thing.

TR ordered food, wine, champagne, Dr Pepper and sugar free Red Bull (the latter two for JD). "Everybody was drinking and doing shots and celebrating. It was a party."

We move to Dec 2015 island visit. AH, JD and guests.

TR says she was close - hugged her at the airport. Doesn’t recall if she was or was not wearing make up. If she was it was very natural.
Saw no injuries on AH.
Interaction with Greg a photographer who was guest on the island

… there was a photo shoot with G taking photos of AH.

Describes incident between JD and AH. JD was agitated. Came to her estate office. TR asks if he wants anything. Then AH arrives. Telling JD to come to the house. JD was reluctant to go. He left the office and got into...

… the vehicle. She stood in front of it. Eventually she got into the vehicle and they both went back to the house. TR and colleague CJ drove to JD’s house to see if everything was okay. They got to the house….

… There was indisctinct yelling from AH, with JD answering back. AH could be heard calling him a “washed up actor,” and "fat lonely old man”
JD said “you hit me with a can”
She had a bottle in her hand.

JD and AH became awre of TR and her colleague. JD got into his cart...

… and tried to leave. She was “viciously” trying to pull him back.

TR intervened. Walked JD to the cafe away from the house. Her colleague took AH back to the house.

TR says AH was clawing his hair and grabbing at his clothes. “It wasn’t a pleasant situation”

Asked how JD...

… reacted to being grabbed. He didn’t react he just had his hands by his side.

TR saw a mark across the bridge of his nose. Got him a bag of ice to it wouldn’t swell. Left staff member with JD.

TR saw AH the next morning. No visible injuries, no visible make-up.

TR confirms JD had a mark on the bridge of his nose.

JD and AH left that afternoon. TR broke down the buildings - remove the perishables, take food from the fridge, wash linens etc

House was pretty straight, but art supplies had been scattered outside the house and there was a can of mineral spirits on the deck and with liquid on the deck.

TR JD sometimes drinks and sometimes doesn’t. AH drank wine.

Asked how often she’s seen him drunk.

"He has a huge tolerance for alcohol”, he drinks, but she’s never seen him passed out drunk.

[cross examination by Elaine Bredehoft]

TR gets $10,000 a month for running the island.
EB brings the short videos we saw at the beginning of the examination - who took them
TR I did

EB when
TR can’t remember
EB why? for the UK trial?
TR can’t remember
EB why did you leave the closet and bathroom out of the video
TR don’t know I just did a spin round
EB who asked you to make it
TR can’t remember
EB Adam Waldman?
TR can’t remember

EB asks how far the “cafe” is from her house
TR 3 minute cart ride
EB asks about the tents
TR they are not for accommodation
EB wants to know outside JD’s house how many people can be accommodated on the island
TR beach house x 1
roundhouse x 1
and a 2 bed house

EB asks how often TR took meals to the cafe or the buildings
TR regularly
EB would you eat with them
TR if invited for dinner yes - and then says she and her staff would come back tidy up and switch off the lights etc

EB is trying to establish how often TR saw AH and JD.
TR mealtimes and in passing
EB not 24/7
TR no I didn’t live with them
EB says TR wouldn’t know if JD was taking drugs
TR no
EB drinking
TR only by what trash was left
TR also confirms she wouldn’t be party to any

… arguments in the house.

EB asks how much warning she got about the Dec 2015 trip to the island
TR don’t recall
EB more than it ended up being
TR yes
EB AH’s parents, RP, RP’s parents, Josh Drew all cancelled
TR the plans changed

EB who changed the plans
TR don’t recall

EB you weren’t present when JD got a gash on his nose
TR no
EB you don’t know how the paints got thrown about
TR no
EB you don’t know if a paint can was thrown to slow down JD?
TR no

EB do you know Paul Bettany claims never to have met AH
TR no

EB asking her about a yacht trip, which resulted in AH her friend and, Lily-Rose being helicoptered off the island
TR Confirms
EB do you recall JD passing out in the sand face first
TR he was passed out on the beach

… yes
EB do you recall Jack being present when JD was passed out face first in the sand
TR yes
EB do you recall him being upset
TR no
EB do you recall him being happy about it
TR I do not recall interacting with Jack

EB goes onto AH’s make up
EB do you know her routine
AH no
EB do you know if she had a skin condition
AH no
EB did you ask
AH no

[we move to the wedding]

EB wedding was planned for sunset
TR correct
EB and that’s when it happened
TR no it went earlier
EB and there were no...

… sunset pix at the wedding
TR there were sunset pictures
EB you said you didn’t beleive AH was wearing much make up, but she participated in a photo shoout in Dec 2015 - did she wear make up for that?
TR don’t know - she was in and out of the water.

[ends cross]

[re-direct]
Attorney: tell us about JD passing out on the beach
TR he was passed out, I picked him up and brushed him off and left him with Jack. He’d falled out of a hammock.

[re-direct ends. Dr Shannon Curry is called. She is a live witness in court.]

SC is a clinical and forensic psychologist. She has an impressive list of qualifications.

She is asked several questions about the qualifications and her job as a forensic psychologist. Works with the military on all areas of mental health including PTSD.

She has experience of civil litigation doing reports, but this is her first time testifying in a civil court. She can be appointed by courts to make evaluations. PTSD can be caused by sexual assault and by witnessing it. Licensed psychologist in California and Hawaii.

SC has a very engaging presence. She is talking directly to the jury and explaining her bona fides at length.

Currently works for the Curry Psychology group working mainly with military and their families.

Done this work for 15 years. Works half with individuals and half with..

… couples.

She got involved in this case when Camille Vasquez reached out to her.

Initially she was engaged to review case materials and see what stuck out re potential "intimate partner violence” in JD/AH’s relationship

In Oct 21 she was asked by “counsel" to do a psychological evaluation of AH. She looked at all of the case doc, mental health treament, Dr K’s notes, three other doctors. Nurse Erin Burin. Audio recordings, photos/videos/, multiple witness evaluations. Did two direct evaluations

… over the course of two meetings toalling 12 hours.

Concluded she had Borderline Personality Disorder and Histrionic Personality Disorder.

SC gives a thorough explanation of how these diagnoses can be reached and the work involved in doing so.

Asked how AH was diagnosed.

SC There was info which supported it from multiple sources, I conducted testing which produced scores consistent with those diagnoses and there was evidence of it from self-reporting and her medical records.

SC self reporting is what she told me. HPD - over flowery speech which doesn’t get to a point - shifts between emotions, animated, sad, a sense of shallowness, can be perceived as play-acting.

Tested AH (rigourously, it sounds like) for PTSD in case she had got it from the alleged abuse by JD.

Concluded a 25 page interpretive outline

Sophisticated way of minimising her personal problems, inner hostility, judge-y, self-righteous but denies she is….

…externalisation of blame, prickly, full of rage - inner anger, passive/aggressive, self-centred, self-indulgent, use manipulation tactics to get their needs met, needy, very sophisticated socially, present as balanced and unaware of problems in their behaviour and thinking.

SC says these aren’t facts, but her scores were consistent, correlated with other people who have these traits.

AH had a 3-6 co-type. Anger. Cruelty with people who are less powerful. Image-concerned, prone to externalising blame, attention-seeking, suppressed and denied anger.

Borderline personlity disorder is instability in close relationships, emotions, sense of identity. Driven by a terror of abandonment. Characterised by phyiscal aggression, threatening, harming themselves. Will perceive non-existent slights and explode in a way that can be...

… exhausting for their partners. Partners try to placate them at first and “allow themselves to become a punching bag”.

SC “With borderline personality disorder you’ll often have these fluctuating moods, constantly and again this hyper-sensitivity to being sleighted or feeling offended", caused by say someone being two minutes late to dinner it seems to them a big sleight...

… really driven by the fear of abandonment.
SC “there are no attempts to control that emotion. There are no attempts to regulate it. So if they’re in the middle of the restaurant and they feel offended. They’re going to start the fight… people are going to see it...

“… or they might just start crying or break down, but they’ll make a lot of accusations and that reactivity is when you’re going to see a lot of escalation of this… behaviour. They can react violently, they can react aggressively, they can often physically prevent a partner...

… from trying to leave if their partner wants to get space from all of this intense emotion. And often times they will be abusive to their partners in these situations. Sometimes they’ll physically restrain them from leaving and become injured that way. But also Borderline...

Personality Disorder it seems to be a predictive factor for women who implement violence against their partner and one of the most common tactics that they will use is actually physically assaulting and then getting harmed themselves. Mostly we call this administrative violence..

… essentially this is saying they’ll make threats using the legal system. They might say they are going to file a restraining order or claim abuse or they might do these things to essentially try to keep their partner from leaving."

SC asked about what emotional reactivity she observed. Dr Cowan saw this in AH. Anger and charming. BPD is a disorder of contradictions. Dr Hughes noted AH had cut her arm in the past - typical symptoms of these conditions. Rocky P testified that AH hit her in the face...

… sort of out of the blue. BPD - if someone isn’t meeting their needs in the moment then the anger rises up.
Attorney picks up on Rocky being a “former” friend.
SC instability translates to relationships. They are v intense. Idealising and devaluating is also a play...

… initially everythign seems great. Then reality sets in - people are not perfect. Most people can see the whole, but people with BPD can’t see this they attack the faults, and are then after v remorseful.

Instability travels towards identity. They don’t understand their condition and they start to take on the identity of the people they’re spending time with because it’s comfortable, because they don’t really know who they are.

We go to Histrionic Personality Disorder. Dramatic, erratic and emotional. BPD are about instability. HPD is drama and shallowness. Underlying drive is to always be the centre of attention. Extreme discomfort with not being the centre of attention. If they are not they can...

… do strange things. They will make up stories. Take on the victim or princess role. Seeking care-taking.

There is a relation between HPD and attractiveness. V interested in looks and they utlisise their looks to get attention. Inappropriately flattering. Bring their therapists gifts etc.
SC asked about intelligence. we call this more sophistication. Street-smarts.

Calculated in the way they present. They can hit you were it hurts and it can be v v destructive.

AH approached her testing that minimised any psychological dysfunction in a v sophisticated way.

We go back to emotional reactivity. It presents mostly in intimate relationships. Anger, complaints, criticisms of your partner. These types of blow ups go on for ever, they’re cyclic and wearing and a partner may leave which causes the anger to blow up.

SC also looked at whether AH was suffering from PTSD and studied her v carefully for this (she is explaining what she did in some detail) and decided that she was not suffering from PTSD.

She was also exaggerating symptoms of PTSD when asked about them.

Where there any symptoms of PTSD?

AH answered yes to 19 of the 20 initial questions which not even the most extreme sufferers have. We dialled it down to...

… three. Nightmares. Gets surprised and stays in a sense of hyper-awareness.

Asked about feigning. SC says her tests can expose it.

SC also reports that AH’s anxiety was a constant trait and not linked to an event.

[lunch break]

Elaine Bredehoft is cross-examining Dr Curry. First she points out that Dr Curry was hired after a three hour drinks and dinner interview with JD and his attorneys at JD’s house.

We are told JD had said AH had BPD way before SC made her diagnosis. SC said she was aware of this.

SC is given a copy of her deposition. She agrees she has never held the opinion that AH is the perpetrator of IPV (intimate partner violeince).

Or that AH's claims of IPV are false.

Says she believes it is correct she’s never testified on the subject of IPV.

Never testified on emotional damage in relation to IPV.

Never been asked whether someone has been truthful in their claims of IPV.

Challenged on not disclosing she had met JD for dinner and drinks in her expert report or that she met JD’s attorneys.
SC it was not significant to the report.

EB but you’ve never done that before
SC correct
EB is it highly irregular to meet with a subject in litigation
SC it was a high profile case
EB if you did not find something in favour to JD and negatively to AH you would not be an expert in this case
[obj sustained]

EB you were so excited by this job you told your husband you would be evaluating AH didn’t you
SC no
EB and you told AH you told your husband didn’t you
SC no. she explains he knew she had a high profile client, he brough muffins at her request. AH and SC had muffins. SC told...

… AH they had her husband to thank for the muffins.

SC agrees abuse can be emotional and verbal as well as physical.

EB takes issues with SC saying AH hit RP. She says RP hit AH. SC says RP and AH may have hit each other.

EB brings up Dr Cowan’s treatement record...

SC attended his deposition.

EB remember DC testifying that AH had disclosed abuse in their treatement
SC yes
EB DC also testified receiving a text from AH saying “johnny did a number on me tonight” and another saying “johnny beat me up pretty good tonight”
SC recalls the texts

EB asks if DC saying he believed AH and she had no ulterior motive
SC doesn’t recall - but it may well have happened
EB what about DC saying the relationship was toxic and he was concerned for AH’s physical well-being
SC former not the latter
EB sure?
SC not the exact words.

EB do you recall DC saying in his depo referring to JD’s “controlling nature, jealousy and suspsiciousness, addiction to drugs and alcohol and violent and indulgent temper” do you recall him using those terms to describe Mr Depp?
SC I remember thinking that would be an...

… inappropriate impression for a treating provider of a different person to give “but i do recall him making that statement”.

EB do you recall DC describing AH telling him that JD pushed him down and she got back up
SC remembers this.

EB "do you recall DC specifically testifying that he believed AH when she reported the physical abuse by Mr Depp”
SC “I recall him saying that and following it up with a statement that you have to take a patient at their word when you’re the therapist.”
EB do you recall him...

… saying that he found her believable?
SC yes
EB and DC saw AH for two years from 2014 - 2016.
SC yes
EB and DC did not diagnose AH with BPD
SC he said he didn’t make diagnoses.

[we go to Dr Banks - psychiatrist]

EB DB was a psych AH reached out to after the Oz incident to try to help her relationship with JD.

[SC also attended Dr Banks depo]

SC can’t remember

EB do you recall DB testifying that AH’s relationship with JD had gotten violent and out...

… of control.

EB "do you recall Amy Banks testifying that they had physical altercations and that his drug use had escalated and Amber felt she was at risk”?
SC I dont’ recall

SC I recall DB stating that AH was reporting violence to her.

EB "do you recall DB saying she was not surprised that Amber was seeking a restraining order because of the violence that she knew existed in the relationship."
SC remembers thinking it was impossible to KNOW violence exists as we are not investigators, but she does recall it

EB do you recall DB saying she knew for certain who had committed the violence because she reported in the presence of JD and he did not contradict.
SC does not recall that.

EB do you recall DB concluded AH was a victim of DV at the hands of JD
SC don’t recall

[SC also attend Dr Laurel Anderson’s depo]

EB Do you recall that AH had reported physical violence by JD to her
SC yes I do

EB remember DA saying she had seen AH’s face being bruised after the 2015 incident

SC don’t recall

EB do your recall DA saying that AH had reported JD had “pulled out her hair, bruised her face, and hit her in the leg"
SC remembers this testimony

EB recall DA said AH was a victim of DV at the hands of Mr Depp
SC does not recall this.

[we go to Dr Bonnie Jacobs notes who was a doctor to AH from 2011 when she was already in a relationship with JD]
EB BJ notes state “multiple occasions when AH reports to her physcial violene up on her by Mr Depp”

SC "there are several notes that indicate that Ms Heard has reported violence by Mr Depp, yes.”

SC confirms that AH was polite an co-operative throughout her examination and that she must have found it stressful

SC agrees that perpetrators of IPV have anger-management issues and a large portion have substance abuse issues and it is a technique to gaslight...

… victims by acusing them of abuse. Which causes them stress.

SC confirms that she has not made any determination on whether AH abused JD or JD abused AH.

SC “there was no indication of a decline in psychological functioning showing any injury since she’s been with Mr Depp"

[re-direct]

Feigning is brought up again. SC saw signs of “gross exaggeration” and “she engaged in extreme levels of exaggeration"

SC confirms that the doctors we heard about during the cross-examination all were professionally obliged to take AH’s claims of abuse at her word.

[we get to Officer Saenz from LAPD who was called to the ECB building]

It is a video deposition.

Relating to 21 May 2016 incident. The depo was taken on 31 March 2021.

She is trained in DV responses. Says that by 21 May 2016 she had been called out to more than 100 DV incidents. OS says if she suspected DV and the respondent was not co-operating she’d still file a report.

Did not fill out a supplemental form on DV when called out to ECB on 16 May. Said it did not meet the criteria.

Lengthy questions about forms to be filled and documents given out to DV victims. Asked why AH was not given a document

OS “I did not identify her as a victim of...

… domestic violence.”

We are shown a document call “Incident Recall” from 21 May 2016. It’s a summary of the LAPD radio call recorded by dispatch. OS confirms it is the AH call out.

OS reads to it but it is hard to hear first line.

second line is:

“dispute and refused to give any further info. issued business card."

OS says they met with the victim, checked the location, the husband wasn’t there, victim advised they had had an argument, didn’t want to take it further, and because they hadn’t identified any crime, they gave her a business card and said that if she wanted to reach out...

… later to co-operate, she could.

[the call was closed. which means says OS - that it was over, done.]

OS agrees that her original testimony was that she and her partner were at the ECB for 30 - 60 mins. In fact it was only 15m.

First they did a sweep of the building. Did not take any notes or pictures. Saw a woman in the gym in the ECB and assumed she was not involved. Also saw a white male “generic” - nothing out of the ordinary.
OS cannot remember anything about it.

AH was crying when LAPD turned up. OS saw her face, but cannot remember what she was wearing or what her hair was like.

OS confirms that if she had seen any damage to AH or the property she would have been obliged to file a report

OS says she saw nothing out of the ordinary.

Only thing OS remembers is being impressed by the PH and the building in general.

Did not know who AH was. Had heard of JD. Did not know it was his apartment, but agrees it must have belonged to someone with status.

OS is shown photos of alleged injuries on AH but says it is consistent with someone whose face is flushed and consistent with someone who has been crying. She does not believe they reflect an injury.

OS is now asked about the apartment search. Josh Drew is the “generic male” she met. He took her through the apartment.
OS agrees they searched the PH. EB Was it thorough?
OS It was a search
EB Was it thorough
OS it was a sweep

OS states that all people were uncooperative

They woudn’t even give their names.
EB: “That’s a little unusual isn’t it?”
OS: “No it’s not. A lot of people don’t like us.”

I’m going to wrap up here. OS is speaking to JD’s attorney confirming that she did not believe AH had suffered physical injury.

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