Thread by @nickwallis

Gooooooood morning from the queue outside Fairfax County Court. Live tweets of #DeppvHeard to follow. Watch the video to the very end for a special guest appearance.

Court 5J is in session - Week 4 day 13 of #DeppvHeard. This could be the final day of JD witnesses. The lawyers and judges are currently discussing administrative matters which means the live feed sound bar is cut, so, whilst we are waiting for the jury to come in...

… to remind you that all my tweets summarise and paraphrase what is being said. Nothing is a direct quote unless it is in “direct quotes”.

Also you can watch the whole thing live here:

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Travis McGivern has just been sworn in. He has a bald head and magnificent gret beard.

He is live by videolink from LA.

GREY beard.

The feed has frozen. Not the feed from Travis, but the pool TV feed.

Oh dear. Travis is explaining his job roles, but there is severe glitching.

Travis says that work for JD has slowed down as he’s out of “town” such a lot now, to the extent he’s picked up a full time job now working for someone else.

Says when JD is in town he sees him daily.

Met Amber Heard in 2013-ish.

TM says JD and AH’s interactions could be “super-loving, happy” and then the next day “arguing”.

[the feed is making things terrible. Afaik there are no journalists in court at the moment. This is a problem. The judge ordered no special access for journalists to the trial...

… so we queue up with the spectators. There were a surprising number of spectators this morning, so even those of us arriving before 6am could not get in. Now the feed is down, there is no one in court to report what is going on]

[Several journalists have spoken about making representations to the judge on this matter. I am all for democratisation of access, but most of our work as hacks is done after the trial - often till quite late at night, so being there at 4am would not work]

Feed is back!

Describes witnessing hearing AH say to Johnny that he was a

“Fucking deadbeat dad” “Fucking washed up” "Fucking cunt… you name it, she’s spewed it”

Also says AH was rude to him about him and demeaned his chosen career.

Going to the March 2015 incident in Australia. TM picked AH and Ben King up from the airport in LA on 9 March.

TM “she seemed normal. nothing out of the ordinary. She was pleasant, she was polite like she usually was.”

TM took her from LAX to the ECB penthouses.

Said he was an hour-ish in her company.

Said he was in a few feet of her for that time.

Asked about the time of day - says they got into LAX around 1pm.

“I didn’t notice any injuries” he says of AH.

Asked about injuries to JD when he returned from australia.

TM “I didn’t see any injury, but his hand was wrapped."

Asked about arguments again.

23 March 2015 there was an incident in PH5 at the ECB that he recalls.

TM reckons he started at 11pm at his CP (a makeshift Command Post) at the ECB. TM reckons JD got in touch between 4am and 4.30am.

"He texted me and I was downstairs. I don’t remember exactly what I was doing… but I remember getting the text… he requested I meet him at PH5 and requested I bring the nurse… Debbie Lloyd"

TM walks over to DL’s hotel and met her there. They walked back to the ECB. In the lobby we ran into AH talking to security or concierge. DL stayed with AH. TM went upstairs hoping to get JD out of there before AH went back up.

Asked why.

Just because of past experiences...

… she’s tried to stop us from leaving by stopping the elevator or physically grabbing him by the arm.

JD has some bags like he was ready to go. Got a feel for what was going on. Tried to get him out of there. AH and DL came back up out of the elevator. JD and AH...

… decided they wanted to continue whatever conversation they were having. TM lets them into PH5 and waits with DL outside PH5 with the door open to “kinda giving them their space”.

The conversation gets “louder” and “more volatile” so TM and DL enter the room “just to be there"

The argument continues. Moments of normal conversation, peaceful conversation then yelling from both of them.

TM says he witnessed AH throw a Red Bull can.

Whitney and AH were on the middle level of the PH. TM says he saw AH throw a Red Bull can from her level and it hit JD in back.

TM moved closed to JD “I didn’t want my client getting hit with anything else… the verbal onslaught continued from both of them. Mr Depp...

… was giving as good as he got at that point.”

AH throws a “purse or a bag” at him. TM knocks it away. AH spits at JD. and he witnesses “A lot of verbal vitriol from both of them"

Recalls AH saying “you’re fucking washed up… you’re a fucking cunt”, which he says JD called her too.

TM says the F-word is his favourite word “and it was being thrown around to the point I was uncomfortable”

Says JD was mad. Especially with the spitting. AH and Whitney...

… went into a different PH. JD went into AH’s closet and “rearranged” it - says she threw down every rack of clothes and threw at least one of her shoes down the stairs.

Reiterates AH and Whitney were not present when this happened.

TM says AH must have heard what was goign on and was not best pleased so AH re-entered as TM was trying to get JD out of the PH. There was another confrontation. TM was trying to get JD out. He told him that they were leaving. Saw a fist and arm come across his right shoulder...

… and saw a closed fist make contact with the side of JD’s face.

TM confirms it was AH’s fist.

“How did Mr Depp respond when he was punched?”

TM “a look of shock… what just happened? Where did that come from?"

TM moved JD downstairs and told him for his safety that they were leaving “I had let him get hit by a Red Bull can, I had let him get punched” - TM felt like he wasn’t doing his job, so for safety he insisted they leave. AH and Whitney leave again. JD was not pleased with TM...

…. “naturally”. JD went to the bathroom, and DL went into see him. JD came out and got in TM’s face and showed him his own face and said “that’s your fault.” TM agreed. His face was swollen and red “a nice little shiner”.

TM confirms JD did not throw anything at anyone...

… nor did he phyiscally respond to AH hitting him.

TM confirms that he had a heavily banaged hand.

We go to AH’s birthday party in April 2016. TM was not present - strted at 11pm. Party was in PH5.

“I don’t typically take part in get togethers”

Party wound down after he got there. JD arrived shortly after 11pm. Says JD and AH went back to PH3 shortly thereafter.

Got a text at around 4am or 5am that morning requesting his presence in PH3.

TM went to PH3 and saw a verbal argument.

[sorry just got stopped for a chat with one of the senior deputy sheriffs here. Nice man. But I did have a little moan about how there are (to the best of my knowledge) no journalists in court. Still the feed is now working, so…]

TM says it was made clear some phones had been thrown out of the window down to Broadway. JD wanted to leave. Wanted to grab some valuables - some framed letters from Hunter S Thompson and Marlon Brando. We did look for the phone briefly on the way back to W Hollywood. But his...

… main concern (ie TM’s main concern) was getting JD out of the situation to his Sweetzer property. TM did not find the phone and they left for Sweetzer. Says AH’s demeanor was nothing out of the ordinary. Arguing, but no injuries.
TM says never seen JD physically abuse...

… JD. Has seen AH grab JD and obviously the punch.

Says he’s seen JD use marijuana “too many to count, I mean, daily”
cocaine? “a couple” of times.

Says JD is “chill… mellow… super-mellow” on mj. On cocaine “I feel like it levels him out”. Has only seen JD drunk once.

“Other than that Mr Depp handles his liquor v well.”

Asked about AH drinking. She drinks fairly regularly. I can’t guesstimate. Other than incident on 23 March when he assumes she was drunk can’t remember seeing her drunk.

[cross examination]

TM confirms he still works for Depp even tho he has another job. Mr Depp when TM works for him is his sole client. Not AH.

AH attorney picking holes in the 23 March story - TM standing by his recollection of how he met up with DL and where he met AH in the lobby.

Ben Rottenborn takes him to his UK trial statement. Asked who wrote it. TM says he did with an attorney.

BR reads from TM's witness statement which says that he and DL walked in on JD and AH having an argument in the PH.

BR asks if TM was preventing JD from leaving. TM says no.

TM confirms that JD did throw down racks of clothing (rows back on saying every rack). Also confirms a rack of clothing was thrown downstairs by JD.

BR suggests that when AH returned after this JD was trying to grab AH..

… by the hair and hit her with the hard cast on the hand.

Exact quote: “he was reaching for Amber’s hair while he was trying to hit her with that cast.”
TM: “that is not correct"

BR: you say you saw JD push or shove Whitney
TM: absolutely not
BR and it was only after JD pushed whitney that AH stepped forward and punched him in the face.
TM: that is not correct.

[we go to the April 2016 party]

BR you have no idea what went on in PH3 whilst you were not there.
TM agrees

BR says TM primarily provides security to JD in LA
TM some travel
BR asks him to list those trips
TM does so. “Bunch of local stuff”

BR goes through Boston - LA flight/Hicksville/Bahamas x 2...

… Tokyo in Jan 2015/ECB 15 Dec 2015.

TM says he was not present at any of the dates, but not sure about the ECB date.

[Cross ends. No re-direct but he remains subject to recall]

[Jack Whigham is called JD’s talent manager]

He lives in LA. He has a degree in finance from the University of Florida in 1998. Law degree from Uni of Florida, too.

[Ben Chew doing the examination of JW]

JW was an attorney for 3 years into a talent agency called CAA. Started in April 2004 in mailroom. Became an assistant to a managing partner. 2007 became an agent. In 2014 began co-running the film and talent dept.

[so sorry to clarify - worked as an attorney for 3 years THEN went into CAA]

Left CAA in Aug 2020. Set up his own talent management agency/production company - Range Media Partners.

Knows JD. Met him briefly on the set of Black Mass in 2014/5 then at one of his music shows, then in 2016 substantively. Became his agent in Oct 2016, when he was still with CAA. Had two partners including Christian Carino.

Says JD was always v nice, polite artistic, thoughtful

“I found Johnny to be authentic. A genuine kindness.”

JW says JD’s previous agent was Tracy Jacobs. “Were you aware of JD’s reputation…”
JW I believe I was… he was very well regarded by his peers.

JW well regarded, extremely talented, artistic.

BC asks about an indie film vs a studio a film

JW studio film has a bigger budget and a distributor in place. Bigger fees. Indies are typically smaller budget, smaller fees, more atistically minded, and typically don’t have...

… a distributor lined up at the time they’re made.

BC asks about JD’s projects lined up in fall 2016/early 2017.

JW says two films back to back - city of lies about Notorious BIG and the Murder on the Orient Express. Then JD had Fantastic Beasts and they finished the Pirates 6

… negotiation.

JW said City of Lies was shot in around early 2017 and JD got $8m. Murder on Orient Express shot the same time virtually. He got $10m for that (he thinks). Murder was a Fox Studios film. Fantastic Beasts was shot in Fall 2017. JD got $13.5m. Studio film.

Asked what JW did for him first after JD signed with him.

“The Professor, I believe”

That deal got him $3.5m - it was an independent film. CAA got 10%.

Asked if 2017 was a typical year for an artist of JD’s calibre.
Yes
Waiting for the Barbarians and Minimata were two other deals JW put together for JD.

They had plans for 2018 - a bit of time off after a busy 2017.

JD got $1m for Waiting for the Barbarians. JD was pleased to do this movie as he knew the novel it was based on and Mark Rylance was in it.

Minimata shot in v beginning of 2019. Got $3m.

In Pirates 5… JD was...

paid a fee and a back end fee which JW knew he had but did not know the value of it as it was cut before his time.

Asked about Pirates 6. Elaine Bredehoft objects and asks to approach the bench. The mics are cut.

[Mrs Wallis went to see Mark Rylance on stage in London in Jerusalem this weekend and said he was amazing. True fact.]

Mics are open. JW says they cut the Pirates 6 deal at $22.5m with Disney.

Asks what role JD was going to play in Pirates 6. [This raises an objection on the grounds of speculation [?!]. Overruled.]
JW: Captain Jack Sparrow.

Asked about JD’s other Disney affiliations in 2017.
Going to Disneyland, dressed as Captain Jack Sparrow to replace the animated version and surprise the riders.

He also went to Disney Shanghai to open the Pirates ride there.

JW is asked about JD socialising with Disney execs. He remembers a pleasant dinner.

[Feed is playing up again]

JW is asked about the AH op-ed in the WaPo [the centre of this defamation trial].

He confirms he read it.

He is shown it and this par is drawn to his attention:

“Two years ago I became a public figures representing public about and felt the full force…”

JW says he understood this to be about JD.

Drawn to reference of “sexual violence” and asked about it.

JW says it was rather shocking because it was the first he’d heard of it.

Asked who he understood it to be about.
[obj. sustained]

Asked how if at all the op-ed was different from other articles about the relationship.
JW says it was a first person account from the victim it was extremely impactful… with repsect to JD it was catstrophic because it was coming from a first person account. It was not from...

… a journalist. It was someone saying "it happened to me.”

Between Dec 2018 and Oct 2020 did JD perform in any studio films.

“Zero. No studio films.”

How did the op-ed impact JD’s ability to get studio film roles.
[obj. sustained]

Asked what effect the op-ed had on the release of Minimate.
[obj. the parties approach, the mics are cut]
What happened after the op-ed, but before Oct 2020 wr to Minimata?
JW Minimata was supposed to start in January. “It was very difficulty to keep Minimata together...

… the financing became shaky. The budget had to come down, Johnny’s fee came down to save the movie.”

JW is shown an email chain which we are not allowed to see or even hear read out. 20 Dec 2018 - JW is shown the middle email message from Christian Carino.
[more objs.]

[JD and AH chatting relatively animatedly to their attorneys who have not approached the bench.]

JW asked if after the op-ed that he learned about Disney’s plans on casting JD for Pirates 6.
JW Yes - in 2019. It became clear they were going in a different direction. Early 2019.

Asked who Margot Robbie is.

Asked when he found out about MR’s role in Pirates.

I learned they were developing a pilot project for her.

JW asked if he reached out to Jerry Bruckheimer or Sean Bailey.
JW a lot

Result?
JW: “I was not successful in rescuing Pirates for Johnny”
Asked when he last discussed Pirates with anyone at Disney
JW: 2019, I believe.
Did JD lose films between Dec 2018 and Oct 2020.

JW "Yes - after the op-ed it was impossible to get him a studio film which is what we normally would have been focused on in that time period.”

JW asked if COVD had any impact prior to 2020.

“I think it had an effect on JOhnny like other actors to some degree, but we were still

… doing business especially on behalf of bigger stars that green-lit films”

JW asked if he had ever seen JD lose his temper
- never

Raised his voice in your presence
- never

violence?
- never

[direct examination ends. we have our first break of the day]

If you’re getting into these tweets (I realise not everyone can watch the live feed) please do consider chipping into the tip jar - it gets you on the daily newsletter mailing list which rounds up every day in court:

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Thanks. Back at 12 noon.

Johnny’s driver has just walked past holding the sacred silver goblet (or to be more accurate, the metal re-usable coffee mug) that JD occasionally drinks from in court.

We are back. Xe of JW by Elaine Bredehoft.

EB JD did not have a Pirates 6 contract.
JW we closed the deal
EB did you have that in writing?
JW that would go through attorneys
EB why is their nothing in writing?
JW this is not uncommon
EB so you don’t have a single doc...

… saying that it’s going to happen.
JW that would not be alarming as we were coming to a verbal deal on the money. I wouldn’t see a contract necessarily.
EB so you have not seen anything on paper that says JD has a contract for Pirates 6.
JW I have not seen $22.5m written on a..

… page you are right about that.

EB in 2018 Sean Bailey was quite non-committal about JD in Pirates 6...

JW agrees, but says Jerry Bruckheimer was keen

EB but you know SB had the final say because he was Disney

JW is taken to 2021 testimony in which he says he knew Disney was not keen on him being on Pirates 6 in Fall 2018.

EB raises JW’s characterisation of the op-ed as “catastrophic” - was the TRO not a first person account too?

JW is vague on that doc as it preceded his….

… relationship with JD but agrees "its not a great headline, for sure”.

Asked if he read it in the Post or online. Post article is pulled up (which has a different headline “A transformative moment for women”)

(ie no mention of “sexual violence”)

Agrees the op-ed was:

“A bit of a death knell/nail [?] catastrophic thing for Mr Depp in the Hollywood community"

EB brings up Sun article 27 April 2018 in which JD is called a “wife-beater”.

[she is not allowed to put it into evidence under a hearsay objection]

[the attorneys approach the bench]

JW is asked about the pictures in the Sun article
- don’t recall.
JW is being shown the pics in the Sun article
- doesn’t recall but agrees there are pics
EB and they show bruises on Ms Heard’s face
- that would be what I see[?], yes

JW acknowledges he believes this was the subject of a lawsuit - Depp sued.
EB Depp alleged this article was defamatory
JW - I don’t recall
EB you recall JD was caused harm, distress and embarrassment by the sun article
JW doesn’t really
EB takes him to the 2020 trial

Reminds him it lasted 3 weeks, there was lots of media coverage
JW recalls there being media coverage
EB and JD gave evidence for 4 days
- doesn’t recall specifics
EB and AH gave evidence for 4 days
- don’t recall
EB and many many witnesses gave evidence?
- don’t recall

EB says the press surrounding that case - do you recall it docusing on Mr Depp’s drug and alcohol abuse
- same answer
EB do you recall the kitchen video being shown repeatedly
[I do!]
[JD’s attorney asks if they can approach the bench. The mics are cut]

EB is allowed to ask the kitchen video question again
- does not recall it being played
EB asks if he recalls lots of pictures of AH with bruises and cuts
JW says he does not remember any details of the case
EB do you recall there being at least 14 incidents of alleged abuse...

… against AH?
- no recollections of specifics

EB asks who wrote the title to the online op-ed
JW would assume it was AH
EB but you don’t know
JW I do not
EB did you know there were "3 pleaded incidents of sexual violence" in the UK trial?
JW no ma’am
EB your testimony is that

… since some point in 2020 Mr Depp has not had more movie oppos. Is that correct?
JW repeat the date
EB when did JD last have a movie oppo
JW last film he shot to the best of my knowledge was Minimata
EB did the Sun article and the trial have an impact on his career…?

JW isn’t sure he understands the question dates-wise
EB has mr depp done any films since July 2020?
JW no
[re-direct]
JD’s attorney asks him to explain how they can seal a deal without ever seeing any paperwork.
JW explains.

JW asked when JD was removed from Pirates 6.
- we knew it was trending badly in Fall of 2016 but I was still lobbying Disney with JB to keep JD in the film. in early 2019 we knew it was over.

Richard Edward Marks is sworn in. He is an entertainment lawyer who lives in Hollywood “I’m a deal guy”. We get to yes and then get the paperwork together so people then sign it.
He works for ITV - The Voice, Love Island “a huge British company with worldwide reach in...

… entertainment”
[Disclosure: although I am freelance I am consultant on an ITV Drama (not to do with Depp v Heard) and I regularly work for ITV News.]

Done all the legal work on a mini-series about Benjamin Franklin filming in france and england starring Michael Douglas.

He lists more stuff he works on...

Starts talking about deal-types. Says every name you see on the credits to a film all have to be contracted and that’s what he does “soup-to-nuts”. Optioning books, contracting actors, scriptwriters, merchandising, props, equipment, licensing.

All deals are the same… he says...

“They have elements of time, money, credit, rights and perks”

50 years in the ents industry. Asked how he got started “I got started by being born in Hollywood”

Went to UCLA Law School did lots of ents modules. Started career on IP litigation.

Decided he wanted to deals. "Wanted my career to be about getting to yes."

Cut the deal that helped George Lucas make Star Wars.

Kept Stallone in the picture when he was trying to get Rocky made.

Was the attorney on Cheers.

Did development and production work on some Jerry Bruckheimer. Did deals for Eddie Murphy on Beverley Hills Cop and Coming to America.

Worked at Disney filling in as head of legal on Dick Tracy, Rocketeer and cut the deal which saw Robin Williams to voice Aladdin.

[I presume we’re going to get to his actual evidence soon… it’s nearly lunctime]

[Sounds like a great and varied career, tbh, which I guess is the point]

[but we’ve been at this for nearly 20 mins]

[helped buy the American Idol brand. Worked with Berry Gordy, Nat King Cole estate cut the deal beween George Foreman and a grill to create the George Foreman Grill (that has to be one of the greatest celebrity tie-ins ever - are there any better? Newman’s Own?)]

[we’re now on the complexity of cutting modern deals]

[JD’s attorney says she is going to switch gears and wonders if we can break for lunch. Judge asks both attorneys to approach. Mic is cut]

[Mr Marks is accepted by the court as an entertainment industry expert. Judge lets the jury go to lunch. Back at 2pm]

Thanks for all the comments and new subscribers. If you want a round up sent to your inbox at the end of the day, please consider subscribing...

… to my newsletter. more info on that here:

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Just heard that AH - who was being reported as her team’s first witness tomorrow will now be moved down the running order. First to give evidence will be expert witness Dr Dawn Hughes - a clinical and forensic psychologist and an expert in interpersonal violence, which includes..

… intimate partner violence, rape and sexual assault.

Not sure whether this means we will see AH on the stand tomorrow or not. Newsletter readers will find out first.

[we’re back after lunch]
Richard Marks has been asked to asses the damage to JD by the AH op-ed in Dec 2018.
He read the pleadings, depositions, articles, transcripts and viewed it through his 50 years experience

RM “My general opinion is that the op-ed damanged Mr Depp...

… created a cancel situation if you will, harmed his reputation and his ability to get work in the Hollywood industry.”

[obj. the attorneys approach the bench]

RM talks about companies working with products and actors for actors to advertise their products - TV shows and spin offs and derivatives. They consider reputation - they want actors they are hiring to add value.

RM They want actors with reputations that will bring eyeballs to the screen and people to the seats.

RM asked about the significance of an actor in a starring role for a film. That actor is synonymous with the product and in hiring that actor or actress, you want someone...

… whose reputation supports the value you’ve spent in cresating the product. You may say Pirates is Johnny and Johnny is Pirates - that’s the impact of hiring a star.

RM says you would not want to hire an actor who has negativity following them. Its v important especially...

.. in the last 5 years with the metoo movement, you wouldn’t want negativity hiring an actor who had been ‘canceled'.

Right now the pinnacle of negativity in Hollywood is people being accused of DA sexual abuse, violence. Investors want to move away from that negativity.

RM says "the metoo movement is… finally society is listening to the victim… giving the victim of domestic abuse, sexual abuse the benefit of the doubt and there has been a shift in our society from not doing that to now. The victim gets the benefit of the doubt until...

… there’s too much doubt."

RM in my many decades Hollywood has changed and morphed but never as quickly as to how it responded to metoo.

There used to be a morals clause in contracts - but they were fading out before metoo. But now it’s come back - since Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby - it’s come back.

RM talks about working on All the Money in the World about the Gettys starring Kevin Spacey. Spacey was dropped and his scenes were shot with Chris Plummer. And he also saw it happen with House of Cards.

RM asked why KS was removed from these project.
- they didn’t want the negativity. They want a return on their investment. Don’t want to be supporting an environment where women were not given the benefit of the doubt. “A switch has been turned"

RM asked about the AH op-ed and how it was received in Hollywood.
“That op-ed for the first time is in a mainstream publication called the Washington Post. This is a flagship journal... of american news. We’re not talking about a trade journal or a rag. We’re talking about...

… the Washington Post. And it is geared to Hollywood…. AH is saying … ‘Hollywood… you stood up for my abuser’.. what I am saying is that Hollywood got the subject matter of the op-ed loud and clear. Amber Heard was calling out Hollywood for supporting… her abuser...

… and she felt the wrath of Hollywood. She was calling out them out to do something in the Washington Post and on the eve of her biggest film."

It was her highest moment of fame and she used it to call out Hollywood and in Hollywood the message was received that she was sending.

[we move to JD’s lateness on set.]
RM says Marilyn Monroe had a reputation for being a diva staying in her trailer for half a day (JD smiles)..

… and it’s known in Hollywood that when you sign JD you get all of JD and that includes being late. Fortunately because of the budgets, you can work round that. They say Hollywood puts up with diva and drugs.
RM says JD kept most of his personal life personal “shrouded”...

… he was also “congruent… likeable… one of the guys. And I never heard any complaints.”

Calls the impact of the op-ed “devastating” it’s the type of claim which has canceled a list of actors. Now JD is in their ranks its “devastating”.

[we move to the cross]

RM confirms he is charging $975 per hour for his work in this case. His highest rate so far.
Doesn’t know how many hours he has been working on this case.
RM worked for Disney for a year in 1990.
RM confirms Dior has not dropped Mr Depp since hiring him in 2015.

RM confirms he has not seen any contract for Pirates 6. “There was no contract for Pirates 6”

RM asked if JD will be in P6. says disney will try to put him back in, but not under this cloud.

RM agrees there was negative possibility around JD before the op-ed, but “the op-ed...

… was something different.”

On JD’s drinking:

“They’ll put up with divas and drugs to make money, but now we’ve drawn a line in Hollywood with domestic and sexual abuse."

AH attorney listing a lot of stories containing negative publicity about JD, calling him overpaid, listing allegations about his drinking, his musing on having President Trump shot etc

We go to the Dan Wootton article in The Sun. RM says The Sun came to prominence by publishing

pictures of topless women.
Asked if he thinks the Sun is a rag so no one should pay attention to it.

“I’m saying the Sun is the Sun and it’s in the UK and what this article is is repeating stuff from 2016... It’s one Wootton’s opinion in a newspaper whose claim to fame...

… is page 3 women, topless and yeah!”

RM is being reminded that JD sued the Sun. And that accusations came out in the lawsuit.

RM says they were “all old news”

RM says he’s been trying to draw the line between the claims back and forth, including some claims that AH was the abuser.

RM told the op-ed did not mention JD or any specific abuse.
- it says it started in 2016.

[sorry not started - that she was referring to 2016 so the inference as to who she was talking about was obvious]

RM agrees Hollywood was following the UK trial.

RM agrees that JD was looking to clear his name.

RM is asked if he did clear his name in that lawsuit. RM refuses to “opine… it’s not what I’ve been engaged to talk about."

RM agrees he saw speculation that JD would not be hired for Pirates 6. He is shown an article from dailymail.com - he says it’s not definitive no Disney exec is quoted.

RM says he has read the deposition from Disney who did not mention the WaPo op-ed in any...

… comms or internal paperwork that was produced for the trial/depo.

RM says he didn’t recall reading the WaPo op-ed in 2018.

RM cannot think of any actresses whose careers have improved after making allegations of domestic abuse against a man in Hollywood. He says “I assume Amber Heard thought her career would get better by bringing this out. I don’t know."

[cross ends.re-direct begins]

RM says the publications that carry the most weight in Hollywood are Variety, Hollywood Reporter, WaPo, WSJ, NYT.

RM JD always had articles about him. That didn’t change the baseline. The WaPo op-ed was “a different quality of headline...

… and article"

[re-drect ends]

Douglas Bania called.

He is a IP valuation and damages expert and has been sworn in.

Does internet and social media when quantifying damages or assessing value. Works in San Diego.

[we are going through his bona fides, as per RM, I suspect this will take some time]

Works in copyright, patents and trademarks, brands. Reasearch analyst, financial analyst, valuation of IP portfolios, litigation support...

Founded a company called Nevium. Valuating intellectual property, litigation (defamation cases included). Brand modification strategies… they use internet and website analytic tools. Certified licensing professional.

Has a Google Analytics Certifcation. He helps businesses understand how GA works.

[Court accepts DB as an expert]

For this case he analysed the impact of AH’s WaPo op-ed.

Looked at Q scores, to see who is liked and disliked. And Google Trends.

Mentions that the USPGA is distributing a pool of $40m to its players according to their Q scores.

Used Q scores of JD before abuse allegations pre-2016, post-2016 and post op-ed in 2018.

Before the abuse allegations he was liked. Post-2016 it went negative. Then in 2018...

after the op-ed “even more so”. Not just about the abuse allegations, but the drinking and drug use.

[JD’s attorney asks to approach. They are at the bench. Mics cut]

DB has made a Google Trends data from 2004 - 2020 - spikes of people searching for JD. And shows a line in 2016 for the TRO and the 2018 op-ed.

In 2004 - there was no negativity about him.

In 2016 - the majority had to do with the alleged abuse but there was stuff about drink and drug abuse

In 2018 - the alleged abuse and more about his drink and drug use

DB concludes portrayed in a negative connotation after the 2016 abuse allegations and “even more so” after the 2018 op-ed.

We go back to Q scores. Q scores are made by people giving their opinion of sports figures, celebrities, cartoon figures, brands.

Pre 2016 - JD had a positive Q score of 35 and a negative Q score of 11.

Post 2016 - positive Q score dropped to 31 and negative Q score went to 16

Post 2018 - pos Q score to 29 neg went to 15

Re the Q score negative drop: “Not as many people disliked Johnny during that time frame”

Overall conclusion - public perception of JD has been damaged. They like him less and they dislike him more.

[we break for ‘afternoon recess’]

[in English courtslunch is known as ‘the short adjournment’ - at least they don’t call it that here]

[We’re back.]
DB is asked if he knows JD was only suing over the op-ed, not the 2016 allegations
DB concurs
DB is told he cannot separate out the 2016 allegation impact to the 2018 allegation impact
DB “that is not correct”

[just to be clear DB is being cross-examined]
DB is taken to his deposition in march this year. Attorney says:
“I asked you ‘Are you able to separate out how Mr Depp’s reputation was impacted from the op-ed versus how it was impacted when Ms Heard filed for divorce?’ and your...

…answer was ‘No’.”
DB agrees that is what he said.

DB is told how cannot separate out how the 2018 op-ed impacted JD’s rep and the Sun 2017 article.

Says he didn’t try. It wasn’t what he was detailed to do.

DB is told he is not offering an opinion as to how the op-ed impacted JD’s career.
DB agrees

DB is told he is not offering an opinion on how the op-ed affected JD’s reputation
DB agrees
DB is told he is not offering an opinion on how JD’s public image has been affected.
DB says he is.
[he is taken to his depo which contradicts this]

[Attorney notes this was a month and half ago.]

DB agrees highest spike in searches for JD was in 2004

But agrees he doesn’t know how many people made the search. Also can’t say for certain sure whether it was bots or humans making the searches.

Attorney notes that when people searched for JD post 2018, the op-ed did not come up as a top returned search...

… as he was not mentioned in it.
DB largely agrees.

AH attorney arguing that when the op-ed appeared, searches for JD declined and only spiked in March (when JD started this legal action).

DB says he did not look in his analysis of March.

Attorney notes that the headlines of the articles which DB analysed after the 2018 op-ed actually focused on the Sun article, not the WaPo op-ed.
DB says he doesn’t have them in front of him.

Attorney asks if DB knows Depp sued the Sun.
DB doesn’t know.

Asked on Q scores if he is offering an opinion on what caused the Q scores to go up and down. DB agrees he is not and that many different things can affect Q scores.

DB agrees he is not an expert on statistcs and cannot explain the statistical significance of the Q scores drop.

We are on to the 1 point drop in negative Q scores for JD between 2016 and 2018. Which DB agrees is good for JD.

[We are seeing a chart of JD’s positive and negative Q scores]

[JD’s team raises an objection and asks to approach. Judge says yes. Mics are cut]

We’re back. Attorney notes positive Q score for JD is 42 in Winter 2012 to 35 in Summer of 2016. a 7 point drop before AH filed for divorce.
DB agrees it could have nothing to do with the op-ed or the allegations which came out before the divorce filing.

Attorney notes that after the op-ed, the Q scores become more negative, and then they start to recover.
DB says he only took three snapshots
Attorney says he could have looked at 18 Q scores. But didn’t.
DB agrees.
DB is asked if he looked at the Q scores after the Dan Wootton...

… article. He didn’t.

[xe ends. redirect begins]

DB agrees he is offering an opinion that JD was portrayed in negative connotation after the 2018 op-ed.

DB says the three point assessment of JD’s Q scores was valid.

[redirect ends. Erin Boerum by deposition is next….

… this might take us to the end of the day. There is a long discussion going on at the judge’s bench]

[mics are cut]

Erin Boerum is now Erin Falati. Boerum was her maiden name.
She is being questioned by AH attorney’s first.

EF was depo’d on 4 Feb 2022. She had a text exchange and spoke to Adam Waldman in 2019.

EF confirms he is a trained nurse in addictions and mental health.

Asked which addictions:

EF - “all, but I primarily worked with chemical dependency"

EF confirms she worked for Dr David Kipper (JD’s doctor who has testified in this case) and provided nursing services for him via Turning Point. And directly for him.

Worked directly for him to provide services for Amber Heard, but also provided Johnny Depp with nursing care.

EF is taken to her own nursing notes for AH.

Confirms she created them in the ordinary course of her business and that she was trained in how to prepare them.

Says she would transfer her notes on her phone as soon as she opened her laptop and sometimes that was not possible. She showed them to DrK at “intervals"

EF’s notes call Amber Heard ‘AH’ and Johnny Depp ‘JD’

EF is asked about arguments between JD and AH. "I recall a general sense of discord in the relationship…. disagreements, reconciliation and kind of that repeating pattern.”
“I provided emotional support… over the phone...

… text… and in person.”

EF is asked to recall the australia visit. Taken to note on 7 Mar 2015. “Client notifies RN via text of increasing anxiety”
Confirms she wrote this.
Taken to note about a report on 8 Mar 2015 from Debbie Lloyd. She cannot recall what was in DL’s report

EF “There was an incident in Australia… and Ms Heard and Mr Depp had to be separated. So Ms Heard returned to LA, and I believe Mr Depp must have stayed in Australia”
Asked why they had to be separated
“It’s hard to recall specifics… I remember hearing from other people...

… that there was quite an argument between the two in Australia.”

Asked if she knows if anyone was injured.

“I just remember Mr Depp’s finger was injured. I can’t tell you specifically which one.”

She cannot remember how.

EF’s notes on 8 March 2015 say “client expressed feeling sad.” but she can’t remember specifically why she wrote this but suspects it would be down to “relationship issues”
EF visits Ah on 9 Mar in LA
does not recall general or specifics about that visit.
Asked if AH...

… expressed any fear of JD at this time.
- EF does not recall.

We go to a text between EF and Whitney Heard on 23 Mar 2015.
EF “Debbie just told me what’s going on and to check with you. Is AH awake or fall asleep”
Whitney tells her she is finally asleep.
EF writes “thank...

… goodess, she must be exhausted. You want me to come to the loft or is she safe and sound asleep?”
WH “safe? no she’s not. kept saying she wants to kill herself”
EF is asked if she ever felt concerned about AH’s safety as it related to JD.

EF says if she said she felt unsafe I would be concerned
EF remembers a general sense that after arguments AH would gather her friends around her, but that in a general physical sense she was always in a safe place.

EF is asked what she means by that.

EF she was “often” surrounded by friends so she was always supported.

EF is asked if JD was friends with Marilyn Manson. She says he was.

Then we leap to the long gap in EF’s notes on AH.

[Video depos can leap around from subject v abruptly]

EF says she was assigned to work for AH full time, then she went part time and on-call - working with different clients.

Asked why she moved from full-time care of AH to part time.

“that’s not my decision to make” - would usually be client or consulting physician.

We go to notes where EF says they are helping with AH’s “anxiety” and “anger and rage”.

Asked how AH showed her anger - “elevated voice, anger, crying”.

[sorry “anger” should read “yelling”]

EF is taken to a note she made about a call she received on 16 dec 2015 from AH, which prompts EF to deliver medication on 17 Dec 2015. More notes

“RN in contact with client in order to notify her that she be able...

[sorry - remove “in order” from the above quote. Getting tired]

… to be able to deliver medications to her home. RN waited for several minutes after knocking. Client greeted RN at the door looking dishevelled. Hair appeared unbrushed...

… client appeared weepy and sad. Posture is slouched. Client told RN about argument with husband. RN offered emotional support… had not had contact with husband since altercation. Client had visible bright red blood appearing at centre of lower lip. When RN made client...

… aware she was actively bleeding on her lip, client stated it was from injury sustained in the argument between her and husband and that it continues to bleed actively.”

She also wrote “client also states that her head is bruised and she lost clumps of hair in the...

… altercation.”

EF adds in notes “RN briefly looked client’s scalp but was unable to visualise the haematomas client had described.”

EF then said she should go to emergency care or contact Dr K

AH went to Dr K’s and was assessed by Munro Tinker. [Dr K was asked about this in his deposition.]

EF is shown 4 pics sent to her by AH. EF if she sees redness. She says: “I’m not an expert so I mean there’s colour on her face in different areas, I don’t know what’s what."

EF taken to various nursing notes from when she was JD’s nurse. One that JD is dealing with divorce papers three days after his mother died. the notes say that AH has made several damaging allegations.
JD is angry and wants to clear his name.

[we finish for the evening]

[We re-start at 10am tomorrow - we will hear the rest of EF’s testimony as she is questioned by JD”s attorney]

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