Thread by @copscampaign

Day 5 of this round of evidential hearings is due to start at 10am - you can watch the first part of the proceedings - from 10:10am onwards - at
#spycopsinquiry
#spycops

First we'll see and hear from Elizabeth Leicester, who was part of the Workers Revolutionary Party (WRP) - originally known as the Socialist Labour League (SLL).
#spycops

Following her, for the rest of the day, is the first police witness of this round: HN218, Barry Moss.

He doesn't want to appear on-screen, so those watching on youtube will not be able to see him...

This leaves the public wondering - if they've done nothing wrong, why do the #spycops want to hide?

You can now download the first Witness Statement of Elizabeth Leicester from ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…

Interestingly, we can see the 'standard questions' that the @ucpinquiry already put to her (and to her ex-husband, Roy Battersby) in advance...

@ucpinquiry for example:
What were the aims of the WRP?

Did it seek to overthrow the State as it was in the 1970s?

If so, in your view, how realistic was the realisation of this aim?

@ucpinquiry Did the WRP use violence to advance its aims?

Did the WRP foresee a time when violence would, or might be, necessary to realise its aims?

Did the WRP advocate, provoke or approve of public disorder in order to advance its aims?

@ucpinquiry Did the WRP vet its members?

Did the WRP take other security precautions to keep its plans, tactics or other matters confidential?
If so, please explain.

@ucpinquiry Was the WRP concerned about the infiltration by the police or others? If so, please explain why.

Does it come as a surprise that the police deployed undercover officers to report on the activities of the WRP, above?
Please explain your answer.

@ucpinquiry Most of the other questions put to Leicester in advance were about the WRP education centre at White Meadows, where she lived with her family from 1975-78.

This was a house in Parwich, in the Peak district, which had been purchased by Corin and Vanessa Redgrave for the WRP's use

@ucpinquiry First of all today, we heard a bit more about Leicester's involvement in the SLL – she worked in its Clapham office, on its paper, the 'Workers Press'.

Her husband Roy was also involved in the SLL – they were both part of the outer London branch.

@ucpinquiry The Battersbys lived in psychiatrist R D Laing's community in Finchley, then moved to a flat in Maida Vale, where they hosted 'Friday classes' for people in the entertainment business (actors, writers, musicians etc).

@ucpinquiry These left-wing discussion groups were led by Gerry Healy and other members of what was called the SLL at this time.

@ucpinquiry They had two children together, and while they were still young Roy gave up film-making and went to Derbyshire to oversee building work at the new centre in Parwich.

By 1975 the whole family lived there.

@ucpinquiry She answered those questions about the WRP's aims – ultimately to establish a socialist state – which were openly publicised.

The WRP operated 5 bookshops, a film production business (films now archived by the @bfi ) and 5 youth training centres.

@ucpinquiry @BFI She'd provided the Inquiry with a copy of the WRP's 1974 election manifesto, on which the party's aims are clearly laid out.

ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…

@ucpinquiry @BFI The SLL's aims were slightly different – they wanted a Labour Government with socialist policies. It changed its name to the WRP and the new group's aims were more revolutionary.

@ucpinquiry @BFI Leicester explained that revolution must come about by a mass of people, not a small group. All a small group like the WRP could do was put forward these ideas.

@ucpinquiry @BFI They stood for election and prominent party member Corin Redgrave made a film for this.

Part of the election manifesto was read out, with an unfortunate slip-up by the Inquiry's lawyer – who accidentally said 'conservative' instead of 'communist' (!)

@ucpinquiry @BFI Leicester described the many strikes of the 70s, a “real upsurge of workplace democracy” - and made it clear that “we worked as genuine trade unionists” - we didn't 'infiltrate' those unions.

@ucpinquiry @BFI The WRP would have called violence 'adventurist' - “rightly or wrongly we didn't engage in it” - although they had no problems with people defending themselves.

@ucpinquiry @BFI They were inspired by the Russian revolution, and would have called that an example of legitimate violence, a mass of people mobilising and defending themselves.

@ucpinquiry @BFI In the 70s the WRP used constitutional, non-violent and lawful means to advance their aims.

@ucpinquiry @BFI White Meadows, known locally as the Red House, was at first publicly described as a cultural centre for the study of drama/ history/ literature, but actually functioned as a college for the study of Marxism.

@ucpinquiry @BFI Leicester explained that they did not want to worry the local community, or attract the attention of the far-right, but following the police raid they were more open about their activities, there was no point in being secret any more.

@ucpinquiry @BFI How did people get to attend courses at the centre?
They would have seen adverts in the paper – which they might have subscribed to – and then expressed their interest.

@ucpinquiry @BFI HN298 was involved in authoring a report about the WRP's centre:
ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…

This claimed that by the summer of 1976 900 students had attended courses there.

@ucpinquiry @BFI Leicester disputed this figure – and has no idea where it came from. It could only accommodate a max of 60 people, and very rarely hosted this many people at once.

@ucpinquiry @BFI The report also detailed the purchase price of the property, the cost of the renovations etc. Leicester does not know how Special Branch would have known this information; she didn't know it herself.

She suspects that other #spycops were involved, and possibly MI5.

@ucpinquiry @BFI Was the building work done by WRP members? Not necessarily, although the party was involved in supporting building workers (like the Shrewsbury Two) and some of them may have helped out.

@ucpinquiry @BFI Was the WRP security-conscious?
“Oh absolutely it was, and rightly so as it turns out”

@ucpinquiry @BFI There had been concern that the SLL summer camp – attended by hundreds of party members and their families – might be raided,and this led to Leicester travelling back to London with sensitive documents.

@ucpinquiry @BFI We heard more about the security measures employed at White Meadows.

Students and their luggage were searched on arrival – for things like cameras and tape recorders. Leicester was asked why this was done – why this level of anxiety? - and explained:

@ucpinquiry @BFI They didn't want anything that might endanger or compromise them.

They didn't want to be bugged, and bugs were found. They didn't want people to suffer from being #blacklisted – “that would have been the main concern”

@ucpinquiry @BFI Some students travelled to the centre from other countries, with more repressive regimes.

Students were warned to be careful about what they said, not to use each other's surnames

@ucpinquiry @BFI Visitors needed permission to use the payphone
They couldn't leave the garden without permission
The grounds were patrolled every 15 mins between midnight- 7am.

These security measures were taken in response to the police raid in Sept & the negative press coverage that ensued.

@ucpinquiry @BFI Part of their contingency plan was to telephone the party's office in Clapham about any raid or other problems – so they could disseminate the information more widely to the rest of the party across the country.

@ucpinquiry @BFI The report also listed the kinds of Marxist education courses that took place at the centre – history, philosophy etc – were these typical? Yes.

@ucpinquiry @BFI Leicester made a comment about what this must have been like for the undercover who spied on them: “I wonder how he got on with Lenin's Vol 38 - not an easy read” she chuckled. “It makes me laugh”

@ucpinquiry @BFI These courses were described as “straightforward and innocuous”. Shortly after this report, the deployment ended.

@ucpinquiry @BFI How does Leicester feel about her family's home of several years being raided and infiltrated?
She sees no reason for it to have happened.

@ucpinquiry @BFI Because the WRP are not designated core participants in this Inquiry they have not been able to see or interrogate all the documents and are still in the dark – “there is a lot more to look at here”

@ucpinquiry @BFI She notes that this #spycop (whose time at White Meadows was described as 'his swan song') was ordered not to go there but went anyway - he could have dropped out of attending without raising any suspicion, so why did he choose to go there?

@ucpinquiry @BFI She thinks the existence of the SDS was unjustifiable.

Former members of the WRP contacted the @ucpinquiry two years ago and had to battle even to take part as witnesses – it has been very frustrating for them.

“We wanted to make a better society” she ended with.

@ucpinquiry @BFI With that, the #SpyCopsInquiry took a break.

After the break we are due to hear from Barry Moss, HN218

@ucpinquiry @BFI You can read more about the WRP and the massive police raid in a chapter from 'Staying Red: why I remain a socialist' by Norman Harding (2005)
stayingred.wordpress.com

ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp unroll

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Next on the stand was former officer Barry Moss, aka HN218

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Download his written statement from ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He was asked about any training that he had between1968-83 – did this include anything about police powers of entry, search and seizure?

Only in terms of initial training when he was a recruit.
He also did a CID course, but doesn't remember what was covered at that.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Was he given any instruction about how those powers applied to undercover officers? Did he ever consider this? No

There was no training about human rights, race relations or sex discrimination laws.

Did he consider whether or not the #spycops operations were discriminatory? No

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp What about the 'Peelian principles'?
Not really – although he knows the phrase 'policing by consent' – he's not sure he was familiar with this concept in 1968.

Some of those Peelian principles are about the relationship between the public and the police

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Moss joined the police when he was a teenager, and joined Special Branch a few years later. He was quite new to the Branch when he was chosen for undercover work.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp How did he know what to report about the groups he infiltrated? Was there a common understanding? And where did you get it?

He said it was just a “general ethos” that they should report “on all of it”.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp We saw a report from 1968 [MPS-733929] that was signed by Moss
It's about a Vietnam Solidarity meeting which took place in an activist's private home – did he receive any guidance about this?
No, he thought they should do “what was necessary to get the best information possible”

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He doesn't seem to have seen this as the same as the police's “normal work”.

and went on to admit:
“I had no idea that this may have been illegal”

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp We saw a .Minute sheet' in his handwriting
ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…

He was a junior officer at this time, and a more senior officer would have signed off on this kind of report too.

He confirmed that such reports were routinely sent to the security service.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp There's a note saying “S9090” - what did the S stand for – S Squad?
Does this mean the S Squad existed before 1974?

He was asked more questions about the numbering system used at the time.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Did he ever prepare 'threat assessments' for A8?

Sometimes, yes

What was the process involved?

It was usually done by the DI in charge as he had the most info about that particular organisation...

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp The DI would compile these using the files – incl intelligence obtained by the SDS – and using their personal knowledge/ experience

He says he cannot recall any specific demos which he filled out threat assessments for.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp We were shown ucpi.org.uk/publications/e… – a RF record sheet of Diane Langford (an NSCP in this Inquiry)
What are the dates in the left hand column?
He was asked to explain why some entries aren't in chronological order?

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He also explained the two diff colours – Secret Pink (P) were available to everyone in Special Branch; Secret Green (C – for 'confidential') were more classified and not given out freely, even to vetted staff members.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp When you were at C Squad, did you ever pass down requests for intelligence to SDS?
He says he didn't spend much time on C Squad – he was being rotated around different parts of the Branch.

Do you know if your colleagues did that?
He imagines they did.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp The Inquiry wanted to 'anchor' the dates of his employment in different roles. He re-joined the SDS as a manager in 1980, and was promoted in Jan 1981

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He said that Ferguson was the CI until he took over. Hoiwever he didn't receive any handover from him - it was from Mr Butler, who was "helpful"– however he wasn't told much – he claims to have picked it all up himself quite quickly.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Was he told about a problem arising from an undercover using the identity of a child who'd died?

He was aware of it, but isn't sure how.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Was he told about #spyops having relationships while undercover?
In particular, did he hear about HN300 marrying an activist?

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He recollects more about what he found out when he became an SDS manager – says he
was surprised at the amount of coverage of the SWP

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Any introduction to the relationship between the SDS and the security service?

No, but he says he was already aware of Special Branch's relationship with them.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp What about between the SDS and A8? And with B and C Squads? What was your relationship with C Squad?

It's difficult to put in full words. The Branch was fairly small, and informal.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp It was all a bit 'ad hoc' – occasionally they would 'pop up' and ask for help with things.

How frequently?
Just when there was a need – eg when a big demo was coming up – but it wasn't a regular thing.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Were you told about the practice of using deceased children's identities?
Yes.
This was a change from what the unit had done in 1968.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp There was some questioning about targeting decisions: the SDS had to consider not just present needs but the future needs of the Branch – to look at organisations which might be involved in public disorder in future

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Were you asked to review the deployments of the #spycops?

No – but he would have liked to – in his view there was too much infiltration of the SWP

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He said you couldn't easily move undercovers around after they'd become 'entrenched' – you had to wait for a deployment to end and not bother filling the 'vacancy'

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Did you think any of the deployments on your watch had no useful policing purpose?
(meaning their only usefulness would have been to the security services)?

He denied that any of the deployments were carried out purely for the benefit of the security services

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp We were shown page 9 of the 1979 Annual Report ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…

There were questions about the importance of operational security, and safeguarding both their methods and individual identities

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Was he aware of the concerns in the Home Office at this time, about the role of the security service?

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Was he aware of any other undercover identities being compromised (apart from 'Rick Gibson')

After he was uncovered, didn't they think there was therefore a risk of other death certificates being discovered?

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He claimed this was a risk they had to take in those days – as there was no other way of obtaining passports etc for the #spycops

Did you think about the ethics? Not much

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Was the birth certificate actually necessary?
Yes, because our deployments lasted for many years, rather than weeks like other parts of the police

He confirmed that he didn't consider how lawful this tactic was.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp How did officers learn how to operate undercover?

They spent time in the office, they visited the safe houses, they met those who were deployed – it was all pretty informal

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp How would they know what to do in the absence of guidance?

Only informal guidance, based on what had happened in the past

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Who actually decided where HN19 should be deployed?
Can't remember exactly – it was probably a mixture of me, C Squad and Butler.
It seems that they would tend to discuss these decisions amongst themselves.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Who would have had the final say if they didn't agree?
Probably C Squad – “we were there to serve them, not the other way round”

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Was there any consideration of deploying into the far right?

Not doing so was “probably a policy decision” as they were considered too violent – he explains.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He was asked more about the 'value of the product' – i.e. the intelligence.

He agreed that in hindsight yes it would have made sense to review these deployments regularly. But repeated the excuse that it would be difficult to move undercovers around.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He talked about there being lots of industrial unrest, and large demonstrations in 1980 – some of which needed 1000+ police officers. He mentioned there being more pickets, and an increased volume of public order policing required.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Did the requests for information coming in to the SDS change at all?

Did anyone ask the SDS to report on 'Red Ken' (Ken Livingstone, the leader of the Greater London Council (GLC)?

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp There was another 10 min break after this

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…
This is a Security Services (SS) note about a meeting between them and SDS officers: Trevor Butler & Barry Moss at Curzon Street House (CSH) in 1980.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Do you think they genuinely found SDS intelligence helpful, or were they just being polite?

No, they found it genuinely valuable.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Moss thinks the SDS were their main source of info about left-wing groups like the SWP, IMG, 'the ultra-Left' (“further left than the CPGB” suggested the Inquiry's counsel)

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp It looks like you offered the SS an opportunity to meet and debrief one of your SDS officers...

Yes, Moss confirms, adding that he thinks this had happened before, based on what Terry Butler had told him.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He sought feedback from them and says this would have been valuable for the SDS.

He claimed that the #spycops primary objective remained public order and demonstrations, and the work they did for the security services as “ancillary to that”.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp The report describes Moss as “very much more forthcoming” than his predecessor (Mike Ferguson)

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Next we saw
ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…
Another SS note about a similar meeting with Moss in April 1980 – a chance for F6's successor to meet him

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp The SDS met with their undercovers 2-3 times a week, and it seems the security services were a little jealous of this .

Moss explains that “informants are notoriously hard to handle”

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…
Another SS note, from August 1980 – described as a 'routine meeting' at the F6 offices...

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp It sounds like Moss is about to provide them with an updated list of SDS deployments.
He says they told them which groups they were infiltrating, but not the cover names used by the #spycops involved.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp There's a reference to disseminating SDS intelligence further, to 'liason partners' – had this happened before? Do you remember the outcome? No

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp On page 2, there's a request for more info about various groups, eg the London Workers Group

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Was this a “dialogue between professionals”? ask the Inquiry

Yes, agrees Moss:
“We were all on the same side as it were”

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Do you know if Vince Harvey was debriefed by the SS in the end?
No

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Did the SDS take risks it wouldn't otherwise have taken in order to service requests from the SS?

Moss said the risk had to be assessed by the individuals on the ground – he conceded that his officers grudgingly went along with these risks.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He was asked more about the officers who infiltrated the SWP (eg Phil Cooper & Colin Clark – did the SS push for them to go further up the party chain?

“I don't remember any pressure from them to do it”

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He went on to explain why it was helpful to know more about a group/party than just the number of members it had - it was useful to know those members' attitudes and likely activities

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Everything that was sent to the SS was duplicated and kept on file

Moss said there was a lack of clarity about the use of the word 'vetting' and was promised that we'd return to this topic later

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp We heard there was no need for the SDS to infiltrate 'The Leveller'

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Was the deployment into the Freedom Collective made because they were considered a threat to public order or because they offered a 'stepping stone' to a further ultimate target?

Moss guesses they were a 'stepping stone'.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He agrees that “the relationship is cemented” by the informal socialising in the bar after this meeting (with beer and sandwiches provided by the SS).

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp A few more questions about the relationship between the SDS and the SS, and then we moved on to exploring Moss's understanding of the word 'subversion'.....

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp The next exhibit was of a letter sent to Chief Constables in 1970: ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…
This contained a copy of the Terms of Reference which had been created for Special Branch

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Moss says he probably didn't see it at that time, as he was still a junior officer in those days

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp There was a more detailed discussion about the definition of 'subversion' - the 'Maxwell-Fyfe definition' dated back to the 50s - Moss agreed that, broadly speaking, this is how he and his officers understood the word on the ground

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp One feature of that definition is a focus on purpose - people wanting to overthrow the democratic order.

Moss interjected to mention the phrase 'undermining the safety or well-being' but the Inquiry Counsel told him that wasn't included in that original definition in the 70s

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp There was more about the 'Harris definition' – created by the SS in 1972.
Does Moss recall this being communicated to him.

He recalls seeing a printed document back then, but not since.
He doesn't remember exactly what date he saw that.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp What about this one? ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…
Does he recall seeing this document, which refers to industrial disputes?

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp The 'Harris definition' is read out.
Was he familiar with this new redefined definition?

Moss thinks he didn't see the original doc, but its contents might have been circulated in another format...

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He would like to say yes, but he may have picked it up while preparing for this or some other inquiry in the many years since.

He doesn't remember

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp According to the Harris definiton, 'subversion' is not about just an intention but there has to be a "threat to the safety or well-being of the State".

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Was there any change on the ground at this time that made you think the State was under threat?

He mused for a while about the SWP, and says the SS certainly saw them as 'subversive'.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp “We would have taken our lead from them” Moss says.

He says the Inquiry will have to ask them more questions.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Asked more about the 70s, Moss retorted that he wasn't in the SDS throughout the 70s, and not even in Special Branch for all of that time.

He spent three years working at Heathrow airport (as part of his time at C Squad).

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp He says he's not in a position to comment much further.

Counsel to the Inquiry says “I'll have to pick another victim for that”.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…
This is a paper about the changes being proposed to the Special Branch Terms of Reference in 1979.
Including an amendment to the definition of 'subversion'

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp This started off with the 'Harris definition' but mentions groups operating within the law, but with a long-term aim of replacing parliamentary democracy - to remove any doubt about lawful activity being included in the definition.

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Did this in fact reflect what the SDS was doing anyway?
"I'd say it did, yes" says Moss

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Looking back, do you think you had sufficient training in this?

Probably not, no. Moss says they received training from the SS themselves, and would have believed whatever they said

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp Moss repeated what he said about some of that reporting being a 'by product' and then we stopped for a lunch break....
#SpyCopsInquiry

@ucpinquiry @BFI @threadreaderapp @threadreaderapp unroll