Thread by @tribunaltweets

Good Morning & welcome to DAY 5 of Mermaids v Charity Commission & LGB Alliance. Catch up with previous days here:

tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/mermaids-vs-…

Today we expect Kate Harris of LGBA to continue giving evidence followed by Ellen Gallagher of LGBA.

10AM start
#OpenJustice

Abbrevs:

J or Judge - Judge Lynn Griffin, Presiding Judge,
AJ - Judge Joe Neville, Assistant to Judge
MM - Mermaids, the appellant
MG - Michael Gibbon KC, Counsel for Mermaids 

CC - Charity Commission, the first respondent
IS - Iain Steele, Charity Commission counsel

LGBA - LGB Alliance, the second respondent
KM - Karon Monaghan KC - Counsel for LGBA
AR - Akua Reindorf, Assistant to KM

Witnesses
KH - Kate Harris, Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance.

EG -  Eileen Gallagher OBE, Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance, having joined in May 2021.

Frequent abbrevs.

WS - witness statement
EA - Equality Act 2010
MM - Mermaids CC - Charity Commission LGBA - LGB Alliance

BITWB - ‘born in the wrong body’

The court is currently working through technical difficulties.

The clerk is currently letting in observers and EJ and panel has yet to take their seats. We will begin as soon as the proceedings do. Please bear with us.

While we wait, a reminder that the case of Bernard Randall vs Trent College continues to be reported over on @tribunaltweets2 today:

tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/bernard-rand…

We begin
EJ: good morning AR. Peace has descended and we hope no further interruption. Good Morning everyone. Carry on where we left off MG
MG: morning. Just remind where we got to. We were talking about (we can't hear MG well and observers asking to speak up)

EJ: trying our best just have to bear with us
MG: looking at that doc, partic words and phrases, ref to sexual orientation, adversity to gay and bisexuality ppl, later discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation. No mention of GC view?

KH: that's correct. IS will know our app to CC took a year. No criticism. Comes between lawyers and CC, difference between us and other is emphasis on centrality of differences between men and women. Clearly laid out.

KH: Words missing as we thought this was easily understood by majority who believe in definitions in EA
MG: in terms of my...
Clerk: mic is not working as can't pick up sound. Might need to change mic
EJ: going to swap mics, bear with us

EJ: better. Thank u
EJ: just saying question may move to legal Q.
MG: not here to ask about law. On face of doc it doesn't mention GC or bio sex and no def legal or otherwise
KH: no
MG: not suggesting didn't have convos but ness to give definitions

KH: don't agree. Gave responses following petition. Objects were based on SW, well known for last 30 years and we thought most ppl would understand SSE based on biology. Using language on EA
MG: matter down the line of how EA should be understood. Page 944

MG: perfume u saw app before submitted
KH: yes
MG: this is 'benefits of LGBA' [reads ' LGBA pos is only 2 sexes and gender social construct']
Wasn't something arose later, was included in app?
KH: agree

MG: back to 236. Obvs u expressed ur view of how words should be understand. U would accept in practice a lot of ppl use sex and gender interchangeably
KH: since 2015

MG: is that right since 2015?
KH: issue and why those words form central part of our thinking and activity bc those who wish to remove sex and replace with gender. We see in west Australia, Victoria, Canada.

Those who campaign for GI replace sex with gender. Our pos is very dangerous, confusing and goes against all science and rwason
MG: didn't need to state it?
KH: we did then. Need to make even clearer

MG: other ppl have different understanding of SE and lesbian? U saw PR and his understanding
KH: u mean a lesbian can be a man with a penis?
MG: putting it in a neutral way. Lesbian can include someone who is a woman as a result of GR? That's how PR understand.

KH (long pause)
EJ: is everything all right miss Harris? We'll rise for a moment and get KH a tissue and glass of water.

(Court adjourned)

We restart.
EJ: please sit. KM are u all right to continue?
KH: yes
MG: apologise if I said something upsetting. I'll put Q in brief way for a yes/no. You'd accept others use words such as SE differently to you. Or lesbian for that matter.

KH: my good friend Allison Bailey said the word lesbian is taken. The word is taken by us. I'm going to speak for milliosn of lesbians around the world. We love other women. We will mot have that stolen from us.

KH: There have always been men who say feel they're a lesbian tee hee hee. Always jocular. Lesbians often a laughing stick. We will not be. We will not be erased and no man with a penis will tell us he's a lesbian because he feels is

MG: when u talk of tee hee, different that PR
KH: PR is far more offensive. He had no interest in lesbians. In partic 4000% increase in girls who think their trans. I felt indifference from him about phenomena running an lgbt Consortium.

KH: Contempt in this ideology that ignore women and lesbians. Formed LGBS bc we were not prepared to see lesbians erased. I'm proud to speak for lesbians attracting to human females. A lesbian is attracted to another bio woman full stop

MG: u set up lgba to fight that?
KH: was set up for children...concerned about children growing up fed tissue of lies about myth u can change se. U cannot change sex
MG: that's political

KH: we have always pushed for dialogue. Leading intellilectual just published paper thinks GI is probs over. U either believe GI or you're a hateful bigot
MG: many things my clients disagree with

KH: made ur meanings clear and to all who gathered. But to push forward clearly what u as group of ppl believe.
KH: u keep trying to make me agree without what lies behind it which is safeguarding of children.

Primary concern children given facts, edu and ability to make decisions as they get older. Have fundamental right of going through puberty. Ur trying to suggest were a political campaign in vacuum. Driven by concern for children

MG: political ca.paign for purpose. Trying to ID purposes. Not on face of it that primary concern is children...
KH: I helped author this doc. If intentions aren't clear need to be revised

MG: just to explore 1 further point. Anticipate answers. In saying that u will educated from pos of only 2 sexes, its not case LGBA will be neutrally putting forward as GI or GC...not neutral?

KH: focused on facts and evidence. We call is subject matter experts. Starting pos is 2 sexes, 99% agree. It's evidence based.
MG: language u use is prejudicial. You don't talk about GC

KH: don't like term. We use ideology as has crept like Japanese knotweed through media, edu, bbc. Its overwhelming influence about public being misinformed. Adults able to work through it. Most concern children lied to. Red flag.

MG: when u say evidence based, you're fully convinced
KH: we were only voice once saying this now seeing NHS changes, Cass review, ppl sitting up, parents raising concerns. More light on it. U may say extreme to use 'ideology' but we've seen how it's used round the world

MG: u attribute nhs change as part of ur work?
KH: attribute it to number of groups. Number if fathers who say thank goodness u are there. Not saying we've had overwhelming impact but has been visible.
MG: u say children are lied to?

KH: yes..I'd love it if SW said look at Faustes Sterling said GI not helpful anymore. Let's look at mass info and 4000 increase. We hope people are looking under radar of what happening over number of yours

MG: the phrase new phase of working and accusing someone lying to children. That's deliberate
KH: yes deliberate that's why so pleased one leader has said need to look at it. Anyone remember south sea bubble and everyone went crackers, this is similar sihlgn of madness.

Can't emphasis how many intelligentsia ppl have lost mids on this issue. We heard a lot of being kids and may be a lot of ppl have overcorrected. It's a new homophobia that they think they're being kind. Just falling for a myth

MG: clarify. I said lied to and u say they believed. Can't be a lie if they believ
KH: can't it?
MG: happy to engage in debate by accusing of lying?

KH: want ppl to look at social phenomenal of young girls on a medical pathway, mascectomies, on 2 for 1 in America. Well worth looking at and Charity like MM SW and LGBT Consortium...I'd ask why aren't they bothered. I'd say to all we need to look at evidence

MG: u don't retract the word lie?
KH: cannot handle dishonesty. Sorry if offensive but it's a lie for children to be BITWB
MG: when ur putting forward LGBA education ur not neutral. I say facts in ur favour

KH: we'd present material put out by other organisations who believe in GI
MG: demonstrating it's false
KH: yes. Adults can make their own minds.

MG: u see LGBA stronger having charitable status?
KH: yes
MG: look at letter by LGBA solicitor

MG: u may well not have looked through docs but sure ur aware of. Don't think controversial 23 April 2020
KH: OK
MG: bateswells were specialist charity solicitors. [Reads about app] then various reasons given for expedition in para 1 Batewells 'helps unlock funding'

MG: it'd help LGBA carry out work
KH: yes
MG: next page, charitable status allows convos with met police, etc...to be formalised
KH: yes
MG: discussions u want to formalise was bringing concerns about GI to attention of government bodies and ministers?
KH: yes

MG: phrase in top tweet after CC announced decision 'status changes everything'. Allows u do things in letter
KH: yes

MG: page 1181. An article, page 1183. The QE Centre had been asked for comment re holding conference. Quoted there [reads 'apolitical']. Focus for me is the centre regarded charitable reg as significant feature as to why u could conference there
KH: yes

MG: turn to...
KH: before we do just want to point out next line [reads]
MG: 1192...formalising contact with government. This ref meeting with Mike Freer Equalities Minister. [Reads 'delighted to meet']

MG: [reads about CT harming to LGBT youth...huge CT happening now] Ur using the political access to seek to influence government against MM and trans rights. Accept? KH: yes MG: when u say 'huge CT in UK' that's what u ref as transing gay away? KH: yes

MG: using status to boldlster efforts of MM
KH: what has to do with status. We were tyring to lobby and have lobbied, but always a charity. U can be Charity not registered but becoming reg it made a big difference.

We'd have lobbied Mike Freer on behalf of safeguarding children in any case
MG: a charity must be registered now, different in past. What is sequence of meeting Mike Freer (MF) do u recollect?
KH: yes
MG: show u tweet by Joanna Cherry which said 'how dare MF refuse to meet LGBA'

KH: as part of charitable objects we try to attend TUC
MG: come back to u on that
KH: that's the context for Joanne cherry tweet. We had a stand & there was LGBT conservatives stand. Several ppl who went to that stand came to us. 1 friend David Bridle saw MF and said come & meet

MG: so MF declined ro meet u then was reminded by Joanna cherry u were a charity and u got foot in door?
KH: not linked. What happened was that we were one of several groups and detransitioner and parents group Bayswater groups...and (missed)

KH: was nothing to do with us being a charity and would it matter if it did? I don't know

MG: moving on to LGBA attitude to MM. Page 232

MG: u deny trying to deprive MM of funding or attack on their fund raising efforts
KH: yes

MG: u appreciate my client takes different view. Turn back to vol 2.2. This time at 1136 and what LGBTA says here, tweet dated May 5 2020 'profound homophobia at heart of GI' that's straight attack, undermine MM

KM: straight attempt to say all these groups are displaying profound homophobia
MG: it's gender propaganda?
KH: [reads] statement full of feeling. Feeling behind is love for children who are confused. That'll be seen in future decades as most wicked medical scandal

MG: I'll challenge word love that comes across from that statement. Not only propaganda that has deceptive overtones.
MG: accept propaganda is falsehood
KH: yes
MG: 'targeting' which means malicious
KH: yes

MG: the institutions u mention are responsible for prodound homphobia
KH: yes
MG: u denied seeking to undermine MM but contrary to what we see it tweet

KH: don't agree. There's a place for challenging discussion. This is a life and death discussion. Most serious issue I've ever been involved in in my life as a lesbian. I find it terrifying and staggering in size of influence. I believe its our duty to chellange when promoted.

On other hand I see MM has right to exist. We can criticise them they can criticise us. That's pluralistic society
MG: nature and tone from LGBA, this combative attack. Do u accept that's ur approach? Not plurality, personalised

KH: targeted commentary of danger posed to children. It's not illegal to be confrontational.

MG: ur use of language now u don't regret tone? U think appropriate?
KH: yes
MG: and happy to use language u just have?
KH: yes

MG: on subject of 'coy' ...u believe funding should be reviewed?
KH: yes
MG: u appreciate my clients deny they actively promote transitioning children under 18
KH: they say they deny it

MG: ur public statement is that their lottery funding should be reviewed. U think should be taken away?
KH: yes any adult who understand MM is entitled to donate. Taxpayers shouldn't be paying half a million pounds to charity that's come under such scrutiny.

KH: mistake in not doing due diligence as had enormous public reaction
MG: will take instruction. My instructions are wholly false
KH: I said here say.
MG: if ref hearsay then identify
KH: I did

MG: I suggest answers u just gave are contrary to denial u gave in evidence that u were trying to deprive MM of funding and attack on their efforts. Do u see difference what u said?
KH: it's consistent. MM was not major feature when beginning LGBA,

KH: was against lottery because tax payers money. If we spent all our time trying to undermine, it's not on our business plan or our objectives
MG: page 1151

MG: this is tweet 13 Aug 2020. 'We hope ur taking notes lotteryUK, scandal brewing'
KH: yes
MG: now this is accusing MM of transing away the gay (TATG)
KH: it's saying there's a scandal of which MM is part is happening now.

MG: direct accusation against MM?
KH: MM is one player and there's a scandal happening now
MG: more direct than that as only MM mentioned. TATG not generalised comment
KH: yes only mentioned MM, open to interpretation
MG: I suggest that's coyness that answer

KH: well isn't intended to be coy. Intended to say could be seen as that. I've never been coy in my life and don't intent to be in the hearing
MG: ur accusing them of deliberate policy

KH: rooted in their role of spreading lie that everyone has a GI. Adults can decide, BITWB has led to phenomenon in Cass report. TaTG came from clinicians at GIDS
MG: it was a joke

KH: 2 things by clinicians. Think David Bell talked about TATG and others at GIDS talking about homophobia said 'soon won't be any gay kids left to trans'. That's hear say but think we'll known factual
MG: u put that in a hashtag

KH: were not allowed Don bbc thanks to efforts of Mr Nicholson...became important to use twitter for our voices to be heard. Our voices have been suppressed and everything we've spoken we've been called transphobic bigots

MG: u say MM 'spread the lie'? Attacking and undermining my client?
KH: attacking them not sure if undermines. Goal is to encourage MM and others to stop doing what they're doing which we say puts children in danger and to talk with Dr Cass

MG: u get a metaphorical megaphone out to say it?
KH: yes
MG: malcolm Clark was trustee of LGBA, he was responding to tweet by Allsion Bailey re Tavi [reads 'monsters of MM'. Views u agree with?

KH: agree with emotion conveyed. Marholm knows some of the women detransitioners and I xan empathise with the emotion. Damage that has been done to so many women and boys is a scandal and huge amount of anger and those lives have been ruined.

Infertile, beard growth, these ppls lives are destroyed
MG: he accuse MM of monsters...no difference to what LGBA was doing?
His words were scandalous and inappropriate?
KH: I think damaging children is scandalous and inappropriate
MG: u endorse it?
KH: I endorse the emotion

MG: in world of charities very often grant making bodies are signif source of funding?
KH: yes
MG: so u agree its an attack in their funding?
KH: i dont know who else funds MM. Thought moreso by individuals. Not rwasonable for public money to be given to such an org

MG: Starbucks, corps fund my client. Nog just public money ur concerned about
KH: difference between collective funds than singular. Somebody at Starbucks who is possibly a member of SW diversity scheme will get extra points. Grossly irresponsible of Starbucks.

MG: speculation on ur part
KH: it is
MG: u wish collective money should be upheld
KH: public money should not, and corps should not be doing it to get points
MG: decision with corps?
KH: it is
MG: nevertheless LGBA suggests that Starbucks should not be funding
KH: yes

MG: last Q on this line. i believe Malcolm clerk ceased to be member but remains close. He says here shortly after standing down 'MM played incidious part' astonishing and confrontational thing to say. LgBA agree?

(Missed)
KH: it's hard to see how this will play out but we fear this is biggest medical scandal of thalidomide and likely will see people in prison.. . This is Malcolm Clerk tweeting personally

MG: consistent with LGBA approach. KH: our approach different. Malcolm can say what he wants
MG: Q is depriving MM of funding, LGBA status is attack on MM fundraising. U deny that, yet clearly demonstrate precisely that's what LGBA was doing?

KH: never been a priority, goal. Not our agenda which is much busier and broader...(missed) Not correct.
MG: good time to stop
EJ: back 12

[Adjourned until 12]

We restart.

(My apologies for referring to J (Judge) as EJ. I'll continue using J)

MG: last part of Q. [Reads 'LGBA gives voice to... not set up to oppose trans ppl'. Explore 2nd sentence. I put to BJ its a matter of perspective.

U say u don't consider LGBA stance anti trans but independent third party may conclude opposite?
KH: apparantly so
MG: both u and BJ have been clear about logic that flows through sex being immutable and GII as u call it, is homophobic?
KH: yes

MG: and also we say its reasonable to conclude its perceived as anti trans as excluded trans ppl from your definition of LGB
KH: no
MG: turn to
KH: u heard I said no?

MG: yes. Hear talking about Ruth Hunt [reads]. U say conflict between LGBA and trans and I'd say anti trans. T has been taken out.
KH: fundamental understanding of what u see
MG: explain

KH: we started LGBA bc we both had history of activism as lesbians. We wanted to work with anyone who would support us in the rights we saw disappearing.

The trans community or transsexuals that we knew and spoke to, some stroppy ones, were part and parcel of our effort of new org. Nothing to do with anti anything...anti any people in partic. Anti an ideology that's destroying us, lesbians and homosexuals.

Bit like ur suggestion we spent hours getting MM funding removed. We've never campaigned against rights of trans ppl. We stand for equality under the law. Always have and always will. Some of these ppl have become my friends.

People didn't want to engage with ideas we put forward so called us names instead. Constantly called transphobic, only need to look at JK Rowling.

Without wishing to be forceful or coy it is utterly false to suggest we were ever set up as being anti trans and we have never become anti trans
MG: u used phrase ideology, same thing?
KH: didn't u hear what I just said?
MG: can be characterised as anti trans

KH: just said that
MG: correctly anti trans
KH: I just said ppl like us and JK Rowling and 1000s of ppl have been called anti trans for simple reason they say biology is real, 2 sexes, anti trans is lazy shorthand method of not engaging.

Anti trans has been rolled out to silence ppl.
MG: intrinsically negative. Just said ideology built on nothing

KH: BJ calls is belief system. I call.it lies. Ppl can believe in GI. I don't believe in it. BJ doesn't. Nor do many many ppl who are trans. Many trans say can never become woman if I'm a man. Perfectly OK to say GII based on nothing.

MG: u say u call it lies and consistent with evidence given today?
KH: we often argue, part of healthy charity
MG: lot of people disagree on GC views?
KH: yes
MG: explore further. Are u really as an org providing services for those LGB who disagree with GC views?

KH: we hope so. Eg will talk about it.
MG: those ppl subscribe to a lie if not GC views?
KH: that wouldn't be exclusionary criteria. We don't ask people's views for an event
MG: these ppl subscribe to belief u regard as homophobic?
KH: yes

MG: so services avail to those who don't agree but not serving them?
KH: hope so. Hope a beacon of truth and fact
MG: hoping they'll come round to ur view...what u regard as LGB can be anti trans

KH: I've tried to. It's abuse covering perfectly normal views that sex is binary and LGB ppl are SS attracted. How can they be described as anti trans?
MG: no further Qs
J: released from evidence

[Ellen Gallagher of LGBA has taken the stand. Problem with sound again. They are rectifying]

KM: u see ur statement, page 242 and your signature, that yours?
EG: yes
KM: true?
EG: yes
KM: one correction u want to make. Para 23, page 239, ref law commission. That's at vol 2.4.

KM: page 3751. Tell us what u note as correction
EG: this is exhibit 12, conts to 14 after Cass report.
KM: been split inadvertently and see second part in wrong page number. 3869 where continues. Look at second statement, 243, your name and sig, confirm ur statement?

EG: yes
KM: true?
EG: yes
MG: heard evidence given by BJ and KH and they were focusing on launch of LGBA in 2019 through to 2020. U joined in May 2021
EG: end of May
MG: when charitable status?
EG: yes
MG: u would have been aware of LGBA in 2019 but not involved?
EG: that's right

MG: I would like to start in your 1st statement at para 10, page 236. Here ur talking about national conference 2021. Ur relying on conf to be an illustration of various charitable objects?
EG: yes
MG: a number of them there. 2.1.2 is advancing edu, [lists the points]

MG: so that's the things you've put. In terms of putting conf together, what came first? Idea of conf or did u start with trying to meet objects u refer to?
EG: conf planned before i stated. Got involved and made sure fulfilling purposes

MG: so. 2 things. First the idea behind conf - so u weren't there in convos. Would be useful to look at flyer for conf. That's it yes?
EG: earlier version yes
MG: not too preliminary, says suprise guests.

EG: was changed to something else
MG: I was going to look at the titles [reads 'landmark event' 'erasing the gay CT'] looking at what's advertised that clearly highly controversial topic and highly controversial labelling

EG: that's why we changed it. It's what was going on in tavi and sandy ford in Scotland, but changed to sound less confrontational
MG: so u agree
EG: we wanted to discuss what's happening in GI services and endangering children

MG: to be clear ur saying there was a voice saying it wasn't. Title makes it look like child abuse or child conversion
EG: that's why we changed title
MG: second title 'erasing LGB'. Assuption it has happened...no alternative voice?
EG: panel thought language becoming confusing

EG: we were exploring that and it was causing probs for LGB ppl.
MG: third title, 'cancel culture and free speech' this to identify LGB have been victim of cancel culture

EG: yes. I was Chair of that session. It was exploring stories I'd heard directly, like David Bridle whose livlihood was destroyed
MG: didn't catch answer

EG: I'm Scottish I speak quickly. I wanted to chair to explore stories, David bridle of boys magazine for one single tweet. Very upsetting story and wanted him to explain what happened and toxicity around issue. He's now on benefits

MG: fourth title, seems neutral?
EG: meant to be. James Dreyfuss on panel, make ppl less depressed
MG: and may have changed?
EG: don't know why old version here
MG: just trying to get flavour and essence of conf

(EG is being taken through various bundles]
EG: like my speaking, I'm rushing
MG: 3627. Bundle 2.4

MG: not a flyer it's a screen grab from utube. Session has changed to 'lies and Gender stereotypes'. Moving away from child conversion but same area?
EG: Yes

MG: discussion still about perceived child abuse just title change?
EG: concerns what's happening to children at Tavi and sandy Ford. This is before cass. This is us ringing alarm bells.
MG: keynote speech by Allison Bailey?
EG: yes
MG: back to page 1005.

MG: it captures what happened bit not identity of all speakers or speech by Allison Bailey but otherwise consistent what we have elsewhere.
EG: yes
MG: conf highlighting and campaigning GC issues?
EG: didn't know what GC was before LGBA, nothing wrong with it just not used to it

MG: you've been in hearing
EG: throughout
MG: seems to be agreed core of GC, has at heart sex is immutable. Happy for me to use?
EG: yes
MG: similarly in terms of educating public its not a case you're, as an org, putting forward competing views, ur putting forward LGBA views

EG: putting forward views of panel. Wasn't like tv where balancing the discussion. We had best speakers we could find who were immersed in the subject. There was debate but not from someone completely POV and point of conf was to talk about what was concerning us.

MG: para 13 of ur WS under heading 'friends of LGBA'. [Reads] you don't say when, can u help?
EG: General intention. Where do I start? Probs happened in reality when we found money for managing director and start doing actions of charitable purpose.

When I joined everyone was volunteers. Hard to get thongs done until paid member of staff. Long answer but gives context
MG: there was aspiration to build friends of LGBA?

EG : we appointed manager Kate Barker because focus was largely on projects and organising helpline, friends. Took off when Kate on board. When we started LGBa was lockdown. When lockdown finished we could put into practice
MG: what time for the friends?

EG: I couldn't say accurately
MG: not long before your statement?
You didn't give indication if what funds had been raised by friends?
EG: no signif funds. (Missed) Kate barker ran her own design business and did all our design work. She was able to do all these things for free

MG: I ask about funding because you say [reads] there's no evidence about whether fund raising did take place?
EG: Trying to organise, suprised if any fundraising does at this stage.
MG: moving to 2nd statement

MG: page 243. This is the brief update admitted to evidence. [Reads 'since march'] This doesn't cut across what u just said. Its a work in progress, setting up regional organisation

EG: there was hubs of ppl getting together and as soon as lockdown finished, it's important LGB have communities. We spent so much time taking calls from people who are lonely, services for LGB are no longer there.

MG: u ref book group, no detail?
EG: Kate Barker (KB) thought important
MG: when launched?
EG: Kate employed when I did 1st statement. Remember clearly. While we were doing work for this trial, which was time consuming, we still managed to cont day job if u like

MG: looked to me like an update as no ref for book club in 1st statement

(Missed)

MG: going back to 1st statement. U relied on friends of LGBA for [reads reasons] Sounds like asperational not things being done

EG: when we had money we could put into practice. Impressive Kate got things off ground
MG: still work in progress, aspirational
EG: when Kate came on board could start doing things
MG: madam might be convenient moment to stop

J: just thinking timing
MG: I'm going to be a while longer clearly. If trib of view we need to come back there's 2/3 day windows.
J: well discuss in short adjournment
Remind EG don't discuss case during short break.
J: see you at 2pm

[Court adjourned]

@threadreaderapp pls unroll

Typo correction

SE should be SO for Sexual Orientation

*Typo correction

SSE should be SSA meaning Same Sex Attraction