Thread by @TWilsonOttawa

Ok here we go!!! #LiveTweet thread 🧵 for #SECU meeting on #C21 🇨🇦

We’ve got a mix of anti gun lobby groups and community advocates.

@DanforthFSC begin. Price details the events of the #DanforthShooting - a tragic act of violence committed by a gang related criminal with a stolen gun. Supports #C21 but will focus on the handgun “freeze”. Says legal handguns contribute to violence.

Says their own experience (with stolen gun from gang ties) is evidence of that. Reports that traced guns are 2x more likely to come from Canada not US. Says the freeze is necessary. Is worried about the exemptions for elite sport shooters.

Wants only existing Olympic athletes included, and only air pistols. Wants mag purchases to require a PAL/RPAL. Says gun ranges are a target of theft and wants pay ranges excluded from being able to continue renting.

Now @TheOneByOneMov1 Marcell Wilson begins. Speaks for voices of the community. Is an expert on gun violence and gang culture. Says he’s going to speak today from the heart. Says people make a living off pretending they speak for people. Says he’s a survivor of violence.

Details his experience in Swansea Mews (TO). A gang member fired shots over their heads when he was a kid, and laughed. Asks if C21 would have prevented this trauma?

It would not. Says hardened criminals don’t own legal guns.

Speaks about other reformed gang members, suicide. Says we know what the root cases are, let us focus on prevention, illegal guns.

“I am tired. We are tired”

Benabdallah (QC Mosque) begins. Has recommendations. Speaks about the perp of the Mosque shooting. 6 fathers died, one man injured spine. Says this attack wasn’t the only one. Lists 3 other shootings (not all with legal guns). Says it’s a turning point.

Continues, says C21 is historic and a victory. Wants a ban on handguns. Says it’s due to a handgun (not the perp). Celebrates Mendocino and slams “gun lobby” and C21 will “end the gun lobby’s efforts” (no). Names off Liberal ministers who visit his mosque.

Has a 10 point proposal: amend C21 to ban all semi auto, ban on … gets cut off for time.

@RaquelDancho begins. Asks Marcell about previous testimony during study, that majority of crime guns are illegal. Marcell speaks from previous experience smuggling guns. He says illegal guns easily accessible to young people. He works directly in communities with youth now.

Says he is more able to connect with young gang members than law enforcement. He knows the truth - teenagers can source illegal gun in under 2 hours. Raquel thanks him for his reformed life and for the lives he saves. Asks MW what should be done?

Marcell says first we must determine root causes and focus less on “guns”. Social determinants, trauma, poverty, youth anger - all lead to the “why”. Says gun trafficking is directly related to drug trafficking. Dancho asks if focusing on LAGO will help?

Marcell says he doesn’t remember a time they ever sourced guns legally. Guns are stolen in robberies, but less common. Says he’s asked at risk youth if the ban will affect them? They say no it’s easier to source illegally.

Van Bynen begins … asks if Marcell if he’s ever been able to access any of the federal crime prevention funding? Marcell responds - says he’s NEVER received any help or funding. Says he’s been through the gambit. The process of accessing help is impossible.

Ease of access to anti crime funding is a barrier. @TheOneByOneMov1 works with kids as young as 6 in at risk communities. Runs programs for marginalized communities. Van Bynen digs into the methods of treatment for incarcerated or newly released young people.

Says we must realign young people with society to prevent reoffending. Moves to Price from @DanforthFSC - asks what recommendations could improve C21. Agrees there are different kinds of gun violence. Not all gang related. Agrees we should fund community programs.

Price says the scope of the bill is wide but could do more … cut off for time.

Michaud (BQ) begins. Asks Mosque org if the Libs promised to expand “gun ban”? Buyback? Says that’s part of their 10 recommendations, wants full ban, is optimistic they will. Says he’s going to remind Marco he promised. Michaud will also push for a bigger ban.

Benebdallah continues, agrees more prevention needed, public awareness campaigns, wants warnings for “highly dangerous” weapons everywhere. Says we need psychologists and specialists. Demands no exemptions for “war games” (IPSC). Says only Olympics.

Says “greedy businesses” who profit from “war games” (pay ranges?) should not be exempt.

Moves to MacGregor (NDP). Speaks to the varying opinions coming forward from 2 groups from TO (Danforth and OnebyOne) and both have different solutions.

MacGregor asks Marcell about domestic violence. Wilson says we have a serious mental health crisis in marginalized communities. Witnesses a ton of DV (guns present), says we should invest more in mental health programs. Says bans don’t stop motivated to abuse.

MacGregor asks if there is any legislation can help? Marcell: yes, illegal weapons, smuggling, borders, law enforcement, at risk communities.

Turns to Price. Asks about IPSC exemption. Is there no way to find compromise to continue our sport?

Price responds. Says they’ll have to sort through opinions. Cites UK vs US vs Canada. Says more guns = more violence. Says there are 10M other rifles people can choose and 1M handguns still in use.

Moves to Motz (CPC). Motz begins, RPAL holder, 3 decades in law enforcement

Motz compares the $5B for a gun ban vs funding for root causes and prevention. Asks Marcell to submit for funding. Says other Liberal pet projects get tons of funding and aren’t successful yet Marcell’s program gets nothing. Marcell says the process is flawed.

Says the most impactful groups get nothing while orgs with name capital get all the funding. Motz says blowing $5B on gun bans could have been spent on community programs instead. Says this isn’t public safety.

Says targeting lawful gun owners is misguided. Asks Marcell how we can find ways to agree on real public safety measures. Marcell speaks about recidivism. Says violence prevention inside jails, with young people is essential.

Chang (L) is next.

Says he has a connection to the Danforth shooting, through family. As an ex cop he has lots of experience with DV, guns etc.

Asks Price to elaborate why he supports the bill

Price says there’s lots of guns out there and now it’s time to “pay the bill”. Says funding should be directed in all areas. Programs, bans, all of it.

Says there’s no one way to reduce violence but we should try.

Damoff (L) next. Starts with Marcell. Asks if he’s a “for profit”? Yes.

Asks about donations from @CCFR_CCDAF

Yes - a $6000 donation.

(CCFR has helped more than government)

Asks Price about exemptions. Price says Olympics ok, but IPSC is too broad and will include too many people with too many guns. Details a shooting committed in Toronto.

Cut off for time

Michaud continues. Asks Marcell about gun smuggling. Asks if he supports C21. Says his organization is funded by the well known gun lobby (we gave one donation). Asks Marcell if he agrees with @CCFR_CCDAF policies. Marcell starts with C21 - details how NY shooting wasn’t …

Prevented by red flags, laws. Says intervention is needed.

Funding Q: death and murder isn’t a partisan issue - we should all care. If @CCFR_CCDAF can appreciate our work, we are grateful. We don’t care someone’s politics as long as they want safer communities

MacGregor again: says C21 is to limit number of guns in supply. Asks Marcell if he has an opinion on sport shooting element. Says he wants to support people who want to continue shooting sports.

Marcell says he supports sport shooting and that sport may reduce stress

Everyone who wants or owns legal guns is a bad person, while everyone who doesn’t like guns is a bad person says Marcell. Says we need to take away the partisanship. Says he relates to Price’s trauma. The Danforth was an anomaly.

Session ends - 2 min suspension to swap panels

And we’re back!! Starts with Sol. Details the piecemeal approach by governments to public safety. Slams C21 but will focus on the handgun “freeze”. Says there are 3 problems with this: data. Says instead of focusing on main sources of crime guns it’s only legal guns

Says bad data is used to craft bad policy. Breaks down how traces gun numbers obscures the truth. Definition of “crime guns” also applies to toys etc. says this also skews the numbers. Says SECU report agreed with his critique

2nd problem : gross misdirection of funding away from crime reduction and prevention.

3rd: says it is a solution in search of a problem. Bears the hallmarks of a government using tweets to craft policy

Speaks how Chiefs of Police don’t support the ban either. Says this bill is political in nature and will reduce public confidence.

Now to Chief McFee - details his experience. Says most gun crimes are committed by handguns. Says they’ve seen an increase in illegal guns. Most violence is targeted but makes community uneasy.

Supports the border stuff and increased sentences and airsoft ban.

Does not support handgun freeze, will increase value of illicit guns, will also impact their tracing abilities. Does not support red flags - they already exist. Will just complicate service demands

Says this freeze will impact RPAL renewals and further burden police responsibility for expired licenses.

Details success of good tracing. Says we should instead invest in this.

Focus on the people pulling the trigger not the guns 💪🏻

Now to Inspector Rowe. Details his experience, 20 years investigations. Details the proliferation of illegal guns, replicas. Says cops across the country see the rise in illegal guns being used in crimes. Says gangs make their own ghost guns.

C21 will give police power to reduce crime. Speaks about the mag alteration charge is valuable. Wants regulation on replica guns (airsoft). Supports red flag laws. Says ghost guns are an increasing trend. Says hired killers use them.

Asks SECU to also regulate gun parts, import and sale. Says gun parts are unregulated. Would support more funding for specialized firearms teams to combat smuggling. Wants more legal consequences for gun crime.

@DaneLloydMP starts; ask Chief about some provisions of C21. Could have a negative impact on public safety. Asks about red flags: McFee says they’ll be responsible for it. McFee says victims can already have perps guns seized. Victims should go to police, not courts

McFee says police take firearm safety calls serious, no need for more red flag laws. Turns to Sol: asks about straw purchasing. Sol says it’s legal suicide because handguns are all registered. The smuggled guns are used in crime.

Sol says the only thing the handgun freeze will do is alienate 2.2M Canadians who have faithfully complied with laws to no avail. It will jeopardize public safety and society.

Mags: says it’s already illegal it doesn’t have to be double illegal. Says it doesn’t address crime

Sol agrees with the Chief about the red flag laws, neither support. They already exist and this will further clog the courts.

Liberal begins: wants to get to the facts. Asks Rowe about ghost guns. Asks about regulating parts with license

Rowe says the target here is legal guns. Says hitmen are out there buying parts. 🤔

Says the key components like barrels, slides, trigger assembly should require a license to prevent making ghost guns

Asks Rowe what he would say to people who say this isn’t important. Rowe says we need to modernize gun laws to keep up with 3D printing. Says legal gun owners can upgrade their guns and parts using their PAL.

Asks about mail order gun parts. Asks him again what he wants to see (he’s answered this twice).

Repeats he wants the sale and import of parts regulated. Wants more tools and enforcement teams for cops, border.

Asks Rowe about legal guns and suicide. Quotes the #SpinDocs

Rowe says he too has had to attend suicide calls. Says we should better fund mental health. Says existing and new red flags will help.

Michaud begins, starts with Sol. Tests interpretation system. Got it.

Quotes Sol from a Global article. Asks about red flag laws being abused. Sol responds; first concern: access to the courts. They’re already clogged. You remove the filter of police investigation.

Michaud asks for clarification. Says we should rely on police to intervene? They can already seize guns. Sol - police take gun calls very seriously. Says there is no data showing any of this is needed.

Asks Sol about skewed data? He explains, example of “crime guns” - depends what the user wants it to mean. Shows how partisans use dates to imply decline or rise. Says the application of the data matters

Now MacGregor. Asks Sol about letter from women’s orgs not supporting new red flag laws. They means to protect identities of victims. Sol responds, a safety concern is reported, the idea is to prevent harm.

Says making a victim go to court and plead for help. Instead now, it’s the police who are able to act immediately. Says there are already existing provisions for confidentiality. Police do act and take it seriously.

Moved to the Chief. Asks about airsoft. Details the compromises the airsoft people offered. The Chief hasn’t seen any of these. Says a lot of replica guns used in crimes. Says airsoft can be converted to fire real ammo.

MacGregor says it would be difficult to convert airsoft. Asks Rowe - he says you can easily find instructions online. Suggests airsoft move away from “real looking” guns.

@AlexRuff17 next: is an “assault rifle” a semi auto or full auto

Sol: select fire, must be able to fire both.

Rowe: doesn’t use that term

Chief: same

👏🏻

Ruff: how many crimes done with legal guns.

Rowe: I don’t have that data

Schiefke next. Talks about ghost guns, buying parts online. Asks cops what can we do?

Rowe says they’ve been studying what’s needed to make ghost guns, then watch for people buying those tools.

McFee agrees on specialized enforcement and relationship with ATF. Says ghost guns can’t be traced

Michaud asks Sol about central storage. Why are civilians allowed to store guns at home.

Sol says he supports gun control but doesn’t support regulations that are purely punitive.

The onus Is on MP’s to prove laws are effective

MacGregor on airsoft again. Asks for help from Sol. Sol says defining “readily adaptable”. Says if air guns could easily be converted they are already illegal.

And that’s time.

Chair thanks the witnesses, staff and interpreters.

The end

Fin