Thread by @TWilsonOttawa

#C21 #SECU tweet thread. Chair introduces the witnesses and we begin …

John Schneiderbanger goes first, details his previous military history and his extensive sport shooting. Speaks to C21 and the lack of focus on criminal use and smuggled guns. Says better enforcement is needed. Speaks to inaccuracy of data.

Says we must address root causes of violence for safer communities. Speaks to the end of many sport shooting activities. Speaks to the use of sport shooting ranges, leaving LEO nowhere to train. Says it will increase cost to municipalities. Speaks to deferred confiscation

Chairs warns on time. John calls the bill misguided. Says he represents Canada on the world stage with IPSC. Speaks to IPSC affiliation with IOC.

Cowboy Action Julie Saretsky begins. Asks for exemption for cowboy. Speaks to the sport, horse & rider, targets, timed, use blanks

Speaks to the age range 7-77, family sport. Speaks about a family of cowboy shooters who all compete together. Children participate under supervision. Transition sport for the Olympics. Speaks to demographics; dominated by women.

Most are 50+ and have professional careers. Speaks to rural events, contribute to local economy. Safe, vetted participants, compete worldwide.

Chair warns of time.

Julie wraps up, reiterates need for exemptions. Says provinces should decide.

Reiterates lack of focus on crime, just ruins our sports.

Wendy Cukier is up next. Starts with land rights acknowledgement. Says she reps 200+ orgs. Says their focus is public safety. Says Canadians have wanted bans for 30 years.

Dismisses the cost to the GDP of gun sports ($8B annually). Says the federal government should be able to remove licenses. Wants strengthened obligations to seize guns. Says the freeze will reduce DV and suicide. Supports 2020 rifle ban, wants definition to include more.

Wants a California law. Opposes the exemptions. Says restricted guns have doubled and crime has risen (both true but unrelated). Says SECU should really look at IPSC. They shoot at human shaped targets. UnCanadian. Says less guns saves lives.

Promotes UK and AUS as models of gun restriction. Says it’s worth sacrificing our sport.

@DaneLloydMP begins. Asks Julie if all handguns are the same. Julie says they use single action, not semi. 1890’s tech. Dane asks if only semi banned, cowboy could continue.

Asks John how important IPSC is to Veterans and law enforcement. Keeps him fit and around Veteran buddies. Says freeze will negatively impact Veterans. IPSC is highly regulated and keeps people mentally and physically fit. Dane asks about cops,

They can use a gun all day at work, but not after work at the range? Dane asks about range membership. John says ranges exist to cater to handgun sports, they won’t exist one we are all gone. Dane asks if ranges will close. John says yes, which will impact cops who use them.

Dane clarifies that cops use OUR clubs to train, once they’re gone the cops will have to buy ranges. Asks if cops need RPAL … john says no except for their own personal guns. Dane asks if C21 will negatively impact a culture of gun safety, yes.

Moved to Chang (L): asks Wendy about # of legal handguns, why will reducing this make Canada safe. Wendy says a portion of crime handguns are legally sourced. Names 2 instances (1 was wrong). Says they aren’t used for hunting. Complains about run on guns.

Says we see more handgun violence in rural communities 🤔

He asks her about DV and red flags. Wendy says red flags in C21 are good moves. Needs more nuance. Says the risks to suicide, mass shootings are related and law is not implemented.

Says she doesn’t like that citizens should have to go to court, wants just a hotline to have guns seized. Says action isn’t taken when signs exist (true). Asks about airsoft and IPSC exemptions. She says we must choose between a “hobbies” and “children’s lives” 🙄🫠

Michaud (BQ) next. Asks Wendy again about exemptions. Says there are too many groups asking for exemptions. Wendy says maybe some Olympic shooters but not others. Says she is training for gymnastics in the Olympics, waves arms in air 🤡

Asks Wendy about handgun exemptions, province can produce letters of exemption. Complains the freeze isn’t in Gazette. Wendy says feds shouldn’t download to provinces. She says we must ensure provinces don’t exempt everyone.

Michaud asks about rifle ban. Asks if C21 should be amended to include more rifles. Wendy says the opposition parties should ensure the bill isn’t weakened. Michaud asks what amendments Wendy wants. Easier seizure, no exemptions, define “assault style”.

Wendy rambles about hunting, runs out of time.

MacGregor (NDP) now. Asks about note from docs about red flags. They want doctors to be able to report (they can now). Asks if red flags can be saved or scrapped? Is the court system the place for complaints? Cops?

Wendy says we already have daily checks, red flags. Says we don’t have a requirement to action. Wendy says she was on hold for 24hrs with CFO. Agrees with docs, should be police and officials responsible not citizens.

He asks Wendy about people who own guns but aren’t in a shooting discipline. Asks if proof of IPSC membership would help? Wendy says Colton Boushie case - guy owned handguns for shooting coyotes. Wendy says trucker leader owned handguns 🤔

MacGregor asks John about IPSC. Visited a range, asks about safety aspects. John speaks to the level of difficulty and safety of black badge courses. Runs out of time.

Dancho up now. Asks John about LEO using community ranges.

John reiterates that most clubs have members who are handgun owners, when we are done, the ranges close. Municipalities will have to bear the cost of building their own ranges. Asks about Veterans using sport shooting for mental and physical health.

John says Veterans benefit from range time. Moves to Julie, asks about her background. Julie says she started with show jumping horses, moved to cowboy. Likes the circle of friends and families. Multi generational shooting, cohesive family events and values.

Dancho says ranching, hunting and shooting is a cultural activity and eastern, Liberal people look down their nose at it, always under attack. Julie agrees, says there is a big culture divide east/west and urban/rural. Reiterates they use blanks. Says education is needed.

Van Bynen (L) now. Reiterates that the freeze was implemented Oct 21. And will be published Nov 9. (Clarity for yesterday).

Asks Wendy about red flags. What other amendments she wants? Wendy says court shouldn’t be the alternative to a timely police response.

Says they are studying amendment options. Asks her about her research, is gun control a method of suicide reduction? She points to a foreign study. (About 14% of all suicide in Canada are by gun). Says Vets kill themselves with legal guns.

Says the evidence is unequivocal, that gun bans reduce suicide. Asks her about exemptions? IPSC or Cowboy? She says absolutely not. Should only be Olympics.

Back to Michaud. Asks Julie if there are any parts of C21 she supports?

Julie responds, supports dangerous people not having guns, says their main concern is being exempted. Michaud admits nothing in C21 for smuggling, source of most crime guns. Runs out of time

MacGregor: asks John about guns in the home of someone suicidal. Does the gun community do wellness checks? John says absolutely. Describes instance of friend who had dementia. Rejects Wendy’s notion of human shaped targets.

Asks Julie about exemption: she says just like movies, they use blanks. Says it’s entertainment, they do public appearances.

End for this panel. Suspends for 2 minutes to swap panel.

We’re back. We start with @Cdnshootingstar Olympic athlete. She details her impressive resume as a Canadian elite athlete, an honour to rep 🇨🇦 says the handgun import ban has blocked her ability to travel internationally. Says she isn’t prepared now and it affects her sport.

Says she’s a mom to 3 young children and safety is important. Why is nothing being done about criminal use? Speaks about the international shooting orgs she sits on, there’s way more than Olympic shooting to elite level. Says this won’t impact safety.

Says the shooting sports are the most gender neutral, inclusive sports. Says Olympians depend on other disciplines to scout talent for national team. Says attracting new talent is ruined, with no benefit to public safety. Closing ranges ruins our sport.

The shooting sports have the highest ranking of safety of all sports.

Now to IPSC. James & Mehda. Mehda is 6 time national women’s champion. Says freeze ends our sport, no new equipment or athletes. No ranges for cops or athletes.

Talks about black badge. Speaks to provincials, nationals, worlds. There are over 600 coaches in Canada, wanted worldwide. UK, AUS etc all allow IPSC exemptions. Says IOC is considering recognizing IPSC. Must exempt IPSC.

Mehda now, speaks of her background. Respect, responsibility, recognition. Most inclusive, high level of excellence. Runs out of time. Is a recognized coach. Continues anyways lol. Love you Mehda

Motz begins. Apologizes to Mehda and Lynda for being attacked by the handgun freeze. Asks Lynda if the ban on legal owners will improve safety. Lynda mentions only 3% of violent crime is with guns, illegal guns. Speaks to ATT’s, courses, ref checks.

Motz says they didn’t wake up Olympians or international IPSC athletes. How do we pass on this heritage with C21. Lynda comes from Olympic family, says this will be the end. New shooters cant come in. Says showing proof is irrelevant.

Motz says C21 won’t do anything to improve public safety, reduce illegal guns. Is there any part of C21 that prevents crime? Mehda says we have already existing regulations. We must focus on the criminal use. Speaks to CPIC system.

Damoff (L) now. Thanks international athletes. Asks James about UK, more gun control than us but continue to be in Olympics. James says UK and Ireland allow IPSC and handgun ownership in some places. They travel to avoid bans.

Damoff quotes James’ comments about IPSC being the gateway to handgun ownership. James says there is a lot of training, courses and maintenance to participate in IPSC. Says of course people will want to join.

Damoff asks about monitoring for IPSC. James speaks about provincial databases. You get notices, must keep up your membership. James says he’d like to scrap C21, but if not at least an exemption for IPSC.

Damoff speaks to suicide. Domestic violence. Says 1 in 4 women with a gun in their home are at risk 🤔

Says we must choose between this sport or peoples lives 🙄🤡

Michaud now. Says if IPSC exemption is allowed, gateway to handgun ownership. Asks why James wants that title. Mehda speaks as coach, describes the process for entering IPSC. Says attitude isn’t permitted in IPSC. Must meet safety requirements.

It isn’t easy to enter IPSC. There are a lot of steps to follow. Michaud says IPSC mocks real situations, worries people use this training for bad purposes. Is there a guarantee there will never be exceptions to the rule of safe legal gun owners.

Mehda details strict rules. Mehda says there is no answer to a guarantee that no bad behaviour ever will happen. Runs out of time

MacGregor now. Asks James about exemptions. Worries how many exemptions can be allowed.

Can people join IPSC just to get a handgun, then quit. Continuous eligibility for IPSC? James speaks to maintenance. Yes if people don’t keep their membership current and do matches, they are kicked out. The UK model does that.

MacGregor asks about guns in the house and suicide, mental health. Asks if the IPSC community check on each other? James says it isn’t a hobby, it’s a lifestyle. Says they look after each other, provide temporary safe storage, no IPSC shooter has committed suicide.

Mehda says what we need in Canada, is more money for mental health and education. Says the IPSC community is her family. Describes steps to set up a match. Says officials look after their people.

Chair warns hard stop, will have to cut time. @DougShipleyBSOM starts, speaks to @Cdnshootingstar about Olympic pride. Her father, also an Olympian - what age did you start? Lynda says she doesn’t even remember, her whole life. Safety is very serious.

Says gun safety is about respect. Doug asks if C21 will end Olympic sport - Lynda: yes

Doug asks IPSC about the targets. Mehda says it’s an elongated stop sign, it isn’t human shaped. They also shoot at steel. Course design is an obstacle course. It’s meant to challenge.

At 62 years of age she represents Canada on the world stage.

NoorMohammed (L) now. Asks if people who aren’t IPSC shooters should be allowed guns in their home. Describes beginning with just target shooting at range.

Mehda reminds him we don’t legally acquire guns for self defense. She says target practice and shooting. Compares golf, not everyone goes to the Masters.

Rattled off a list of tragedies by legal gun owners. Mehda says they vet people.

He asks if she ever calls the cops on someone who “isn’t right”? She says she does take steps if there is a safety concern or a health concern. Mehda says you cant control all people, cant stop someone from driving a van through people either.

Michaud asks Mehda about exemption, what would it mean to her? How do you evaluate who can compete? Says she wants to bequeath her equipment to a young aspiring athlete. Says she may have to replace equipment some day. C21 stops that.

MacGregor now. Asks Mehda if for the purpose of buying a handgun, should they have to prove IPSC membership. Mehda says yeah, they have to put steps in place. Suggests graduated licensing system.

And that’s time.

Chair thanks witnesses.

Meeting adjourned

Fin