Thread by @PhilipDerrida

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Hey, it's time for another living, slow drip southern #PresbyAmericana #ChristianAmericana thread. 🧵

This time it's Relation of the State to Christ (1861) by James Henley Thornwell (1812-1862)

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James Henley Thornwell was an Old School giant in the history of southern Presbyterianism. He helped found The Southern Presbyterian Review. He taught at and served as the president of South Carolina College as well as teaching at Columbia Theological Seminary.

Despite all this, Thornwell like most 19th century thinkers has since been canceled for his views on slavery and the confederacy by almost everyone but the realest of real Presbyterians and a few others.

This thread doesn’t attempt to persuade people who think “he did a racism” is good argument. I am attempting to reach those who fancy themselves as the “realest of real Presbyterians,” because a certain idea has crept into our circles regarding the “spirituality of the church.”

I don't want to get into the nitty gritty of the doctrine of the spirituality of the church, but long story short it proposes that the church's mission is PRIMARILY spiritual, not social or political, and Thornwell is seen as one of its best proponents.

There has been, however, a significant alteration to this doctrine in recent decades to more or less arguing that Christians shouldn't get involved in politics or social matters at all, or at least not in explicitly Christian ways.

Because of this alteration many right-wing Presbyterians have rejected the doctrine as a source of Christian political impotence and have turned to more theonomic models.

I reject the recent alteration, but not the doctrine itself, and my primary purpose here is to show that Thornwell—as the quintessential spirituality of the church proponent—did not believe this doctrine forbid explicitly Christian social or political involvement.

This thread is drawn from Thornwell's "Relation of the State to Christ," which was a paper drafted for the Presbyterian Church to be sent to the Confederate Congress asking them to consider explicitly honoring Christ in their new Constitution. I hope you enjoy or seethe :)

If you want to read along, you can at
static1.squarespace.com/static/590be12…

"That this Assembly is the supreme judicatory of those Presbyterian churches in the Confederate States which were formerly under the jurisdiction of the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in the United States."

James H. Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"It comprises Presbyteries, Synods, and members that it represents a people devotedly attached to the Confederate cause, and eminently loyal to the Confederate Government."

James H. Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"The changes which your honourable body has made in the Constitution of the United States... have received the universal approval of the Presbyterian population of these States."

James H. Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"None have been more grateful to God than themselves [Presbyterians] for the prudence, caution, moderation, and wisdom which have characterized all your counsels in the arduous task of constructing the new Government."

James H. Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"We congratulate you on your success. But, gentlemen, we are constrained, in candour, to say that, in our humble judgment, the Constitution, admirable as it is in other respects, still labours under one capital defect."

James H. Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"The [new] Constitution, admirable as it is in other respects, still labours under one capital defect. It is not distinctively Christian."

James H. Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"It is not bigotry, but love to our country, and an earnest, ardent desire to promote its permanent well-being, which prompts us to call the attention of your honourable body to this subject."

James H. Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"And, in the way of respectful petition, to pray that the Constitution may be amended so as to express the precise relations which the Government of these States ought to sustain to the religion of Jesus Christ."

James H. Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"The Constitution of the United States was an attempt to realize the notion of popular freedom, without the checks of aristocracy and a throne, and without the alliance of a national Church."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"The fundamental error of our fathers was, that they accepted a partial for a complete statement of the truth."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"They saw clearly the human side—that popular governments are the offspring of popular will; and that rulers, as the servants and not the masters of their subjects, are properly responsible to them."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"They [the Founders] failed to apprehend the Divine side that all just government is the ordinance of God, and that magistrates are His ministers who must answer to Him for the execution of their trust."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"The consequence of this failure, and of exclusive attention to a single aspect of the case, was to invest the people with a species of supremacy as insulting to God as it was injurious to them."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"They became a law unto themselves; there was nothing beyond them to check or control their caprices or their pleasure. All were accountable to them; they were accountable to none."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"This was certainly to make the people a God; and if it was not explicitly expressed that they could do no wrong, it was certainly implied that there was no tribunal to take cognizance of their acts."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"A foundation was thus laid for the worst of all possible forms of government—a democratic absolutism, which... does not scruple to annul the most solemn compacts and to cancel the most sacred obligations."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"The will of majorities must become the supreme law, if the voice of the people is to be regarded as the voice of God; if they are, in fact, the only God whom rulers are bound to obey."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"It is not enough, therefore, to look upon government as simply the institute of man. Important as this aspect of the subject unquestionably is, yet if we stop there, we shall sow the seeds of disaster and failure."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"We must contemplate people and rulers as alike subject to the authority of God."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"His will is the true supreme; and it is under Him, and as the means of expressing His sovereign pleasure, that conventions are called, constitutions are framed and governments erected."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"To the extent that the State is a moral person, it must needs be under moral obligation, and moral obligation without reference to a superior will is a flat contradiction in terms."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"If, then, the State is an ordinance of God, it should acknowledge the fact."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"If it [the state] exists under the conditions of a law superior to all human decrees, and to which all human decrees behove to be conformed, that law should be distinctly recognized."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"Let us guard, in this new Confederacy against the fatal delusion that our government is a mere expression of human will."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"It [the state] is, indeed, an expression of [human] will, but of will regulated and. measured by those eternal principles of right which stamp it at the same time as the creature and institute of God."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"And of all governments in the world, a confederate government, resting as it does upon plighted faith, can least afford to dispense with the supreme Guardian of treaties."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"Your honourable body has already, to some extent, rectified the error of the old Constitution, but not so distinctly and clearly as the Christian people of these States desire to see done."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"We venture respectfully to suggest, that it is not enough for a State which enjoys the light of Divine revelation to acknowledge in general terms the supremacy of God; it must also acknowledge the supremacy of His Son."

James Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"It [the State] must also acknowledge the supremacy of His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"Should it be said that the subjection of governments to Jesus Christ is not a relation manifested by reason, and therefore not obligatory on the State, the answer is obvious."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"That duties spring not from the manner in which the relation is made known, but from the truth of the relation itself."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"If the fact is so, that Jesus Christ is our Lord, and we know the fact, no matter how we come to know it, we are bound to acknowledge it, and act upon it."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"A father is entitled to the reverence of his son, a master to the obedience of his servant, and a king to the allegiance of his subjects, no matter how the relation between them is ascertained."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"Now, that Jesus Christ is the supreme Ruler of the nations, we know with infallible certainty, if we accept the Scriptures as the Word of God."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"But it may be asked—and this is the core of all the perplexity which attends the subject—Has the State any right to accept the Scriptures as the Word of God?"

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"The answer requires a distinction, and that distinction seems to us to obviate all difficulty."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"If by 'accepting the Scriptures' it is meant that the State has a right to prescribe them as a rule of faith and practice to its subjects, the answer must be in the negative."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"The State is lord of no man's conscience."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"As long as he preserves the peace, and is not injurious to the public welfare, no human power has a right to control his opinion or to restrain his acts. In these matters he is responsible to none but God."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"He may be Atheist, Deist, infidel, Turk or Pagan: it is no concern of the State, so long as he walks orderly. Its protecting shield must be over him, as over every other citizen."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"We utterly abhor the doctrine that the civil magistrate has any jurisdiction in the domain of religion, in its relations to the conscience or conduct of others."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"We cordially approve the clause in our Confederate Constitution which guarantees the amplest liberty on this subject."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"But if by 'accepting the Scriptures' it is meant that the State may itself believe them to be true, and regulate its own conduct and legislation in conformity with their teachings, the answer must be in the affirmative."

James Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"As a moral person, it [the state] has a conscience as really and truly as every individual citizen."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"To say that its [the state's] conscience is only the aggregate of individual consciences, is to say that it is made up of conflicting and even contradictory elements."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"The State condemns many things which many of its subjects approve, and enjoins many things which many of its subjects condemn."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"There are those who are opposed to the rights of property and the institution of marriage, yet the public conscience sanctions and protects them both."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"What, then, is this public conscience? It is clearly the sum of those convictions of right, that sense of the honourable, just and true, which legislators feel themselves bound to obey in the structure of governments."

James Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"It is a reflection of the law of God; and when that law is enunciated with authoritative clearness, as it is in the Scriptures, it becomes only the more solemnly imperative."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"And as the eternal rule of justice, the State should acknowledge it."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"Considered in its organic capacity as a person, it no more violates the rights of others in submitting itself to the revealed will of God, than a Christian, when he worships... violates the rights of an Atheist or idolater."

JH Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"What the State does itself, and what it enjoins upon others to do, are very different things."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"It has an organic life apart from the aggregate life of the individuals who compose it; and in that organic life, it is under the authority of Jesus Christ and the restraints of His holy Word."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"That, in recognizing this doctrine, the State runs no risk of trespassing upon the rights of conscience is obvious from another point of view."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"The will of God, as revealed in the Scriptures, is not a positive Constitution for the State; in that relation it stands only to the Church. It is rather a negative check upon its power."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)

"It does not prescribe the things to be done, but only forbids the things to be avoided. It only conditions and restrains the discretion of rulers within the bounds of the Divine law."

James Henley Thornwell, Relation of the State to Christ (1861)