Thread by @jlumfox10

Day 4 of testimony for Lori Vallow trial: Source tells me key witness Melanie Gibb is in the building.

Lori Vallow is wearing a gray blazer, speaking to Jim Archibald. He nods his head. Lindsey Blake is here today and walked over to the defense to talk.

Lori is looking down at the desk in front of her, most likely notes. Our view is from behind her, 12-15 feet away.

Another source confirms to me that Melanie Gibb is scheduled to testify today, if prosecution gets to her. But she’s here.

Lindsey Blake calls on Melanie Gibb to take the stand!

Vallow stares at Gibb taking her oath inside the courtroom. Gibb is wearing a black top and white skirt with black boots. She wears her glasses and is now seated.

Lori turns towards her from her seat. She is fully focused on Gibb.

Gibb confirms to Judge Boyce that she has not observed any of this trial.

Blake: How do you know Lori Vallow?

MG: I met her at a church event in September of 2018.

Blake asks about how Gibb knows Chad Daybell and how she introduced him to Lori Vallow.

Blake: Have you met Tylee Ryan?
MG: Yes, at Lori’s house.

Blake is confirming that Gibb knows Tylee and JJ. She asks Gibb about interactions between Lori and her kids.

MG: Lori was very affectionate to JJ. Sometimes as time went on, he seemed a little frustrated and Lori seemed distracted a lot.

As time went on, Gibb says Lori Vallow became busy with other things, more distracted.

How often did Melanie and Lori hang out? Sometimes daily, she says.

This activity went on from January 2019 until Lori moved to Idaho in Fall of 2019.

Gibb is describing Vallow’s movement from AZ to Hawaii back to AZ, TX and then to AZ. This happened from January-July, Gibb says Vallow moved several times. She stayed in contact with her, inconsistently yet often.

Blake asks about a trip MG and LV took to Utah. The group consisted of about 5-6 women. MG can’t recall their names. The destination was St. George, UT for a conference.

This sets the scene for the Preparing a People conference in Oct 2018 when Chad and Lori meet on a weekend.

Blake asks Chad was there for the entirety. She says Friday and Saturday, same as Lori and Melanie.

Melanie observed the two and says they were very friendly, interactive and talked about their ideas and beliefs.

“There was an attraction from the beginning.” - MG

Gibb: She (Lori) seemed flattered by him and enticed by him, “flirty like.”

Blake: Have you ever read any of Chad’s books?
MG: I have.
Blake: And Lori?
MG: She had read some.

Blake asks if Gibb recalls anything about the two of them.

Gibb says Chad told Lori he believed they had been married in multiple past lives.

John Thomas objects to this statement.

Judge overrules, Blake says this is a statement of an alleged co-conspirator.

Blake to Gibb: Did you ever speak to Chad about first time he met Lori?

Gibb: Most likely, don’t recall much.

Blake: But what about speaking with Lori about this?

Gibb: She shared with me that he told her that they had been married in another time period.

Gibb says Lori believed this and had already believed in living multiple lives before she ever met Chad Daybell.

Gibb says that Lori Vallow believed she had been married to a prophet named Moroni.

Blake asks about post-conference and if Gibb stayed in touch with Daybell.

She did periodically.

Gibb stayed in contact with Lori much more and learned that LV and CD talked consistently.

Blake confirms with Gibb that Lori was married at the time to Charles Vallow and that Chad was married to Tammy Daybell, both spouses still alive at the time.

Blake on “multiple probations”: When did you first learn that term?

Gibb: When I first started hanging out with Lori, it was introduced to me.

But Gibb says Chad knew about this idea a lot more than Lori.

I see Lori turn to John Thomas and shake her head. She’s taking notes.

Gibb on the alleged beliefs of LV&CD: in this earth you can come back multiple times but it’s different for everybody.

Another event in November of 2018 happens in Mesa, for another conference. Lori Vallow hosts a gathering in light of this event.

After the conference, Gibb says Chad stayed at Lori’s house overnight while Charles Vallow was out of town.

Blake: Do you remember Lori talking about her relationship with Chad again?

Gibb: She said they were married about 5 times in different lives.

Gibb recalls that weekend in AZ, Lori told her that she and Chad and met up in the LDS temple, specifically in a waiting room and that Moroni, and possibly Jesus Christ was there. Gibb says Vallow told her that she and Chad were “sealed”together.

Being “sealed” means you and a partner and together for eternity, according to Gibb who explains to Lindsey Blake.

A special mission on earth: Gibb says Vallow felt she and Chad Daybell were leaders of the 144,000.

The 144,000 is referenced to the Bible, people who would do missionary work during the second coming of Christ.

Blake asks if being the head of the 144,000 is a significant role.

Gibb says yes.

Gibb names some people who were apart of the main group attached to Lori:

Zulema Pastenes
Melani Pawlowski
Alex Cox

Blake clarifies that Lori believed she was the head of 144K after meeting Chad. Yes, Melanie says, and this happened within a few weeks after the two met.

Light and dark spirits: Gibb explains that those who sign contracts with the “savior” are light and those who sign contracts with “Satan” are dark.

On the light and dark scale: Gibb confirms Lori taught her this and that Lori taught it to others. The teachings evolved over time.

What else did Lori allegedly teach?

Gibb says the teachings changed often.

Blake asks if someone could switch from light to dark or dark to light?

Gibb says she believes so.

Blake asks if Brandon Boudreaux was apart of this inner circle.

Gibb says no.

One juror stared briefly at Lori with his eyes wide open before looking back to Gibb. This is a lot for this jury to absorb I’d assume.

Blake asks Gibb if LV shared anything about someone being possessed.

Gibb recalls being at her house in January of 2019 and says Lori came inside from the backyard, telling Gibb that Chad believed Charles was now a dark spirit.

Blake asks MG about a dream Lori allegedly had:

Gibb says Lori told her she saw Charles and JJ had been in a car accident in this dream and that they would not come home by January 31st 2019.

But Charles did not get into an accident.

Gibb says she talked to Lori about this and asked what happened?

She said Lori told her Satan interfered with “the plan.”

Blake clarifies that because Charles was “dark” he needed to pass away.
Gibb confirms.

Blake wants to know about casting spirits out.

Gibb recalls Lori having a prayer, reading scriptures calling the spirit to come out by the spirit of God.

Was Charles the first person Lori called “dark”?

Gibb says yes.

Who was present for this casting?
Gibb says it was Lori and her friends Zulema, Christina, Sarena and Melanie.

“Convince the spirit to leave the body.”

Gibb tells Blake how Lori Vallow explained that the original spirit of someone was stuck between this world and the spirit world, either on the other side or moved on.

To give you more insight, Charles Vallow’s son is watching from the gallery hearing about his father called a dark spirit. He’s sitting feet away from his former stepmom.

Names used for Charles Vallow’s dark spirits.

Ned, Garrett and Hiplos.

When one spirit was cast out, the next “dark spirit” came in, per Gibb.

Blake asks if Lori was present for all the castings Melanie Gibb was at.

She says yes.

As for Chad, she recalls him at one casting after Charles was dead.

After Charles was shot and killed, castings began for Brandon Boudreaux says Gibb.

She tells Blake that Boudreaux was part of Hitler’s regime in a last life.

If you don’t recall who Brandon is, it’s the ex husband of Lori’s niece. He was shot at in Gilbert but didn’t get hit. The suspected shooter was Lori’s brother.

Blake asks who else was considered dark?

Charles, Brandon, Adam Cox, Lori’s dad, Tylee Ryan, Kay Woodcock.

How about Tammy Daybell?

Gibb says if she was considered dark, it was before she died.

Blake asks if a dark spirit entered Tylee according to Lori.

Gibb says yes, she thinks when Lori was living in Texas in April or May of 2019.

As for JJ, Gibb believes that in September of 2019, she heard from Lori that the boy was possessed.

Blake asks about what Lori told Gibb about Tammy possibly passing away.

Gibb says Lori believed Tammy Daybell would pass away early in life.

Gibb stayed at Lori’s house in July of 2019 on the 9th or 10th. This is before Charles Vallow was killed.

On the Charles Vallow fatal shooting:

Gibb recalls how Lori told her about an argument in the house, a heated conversation over Charles’ phone and that Tylee got involved holding a bat before Alex Cox shot Charles.

Cox was Lori’s brother and considered her protector. We’ve covered this shooting extensively. He claimed Charles hit him in the head with Tylee’s bat before Alex shot him in self defense.

To clarify, Melanie Gibb was not there.

Blake asks where JJ was during the shooting.

Gibb says she thinks he was outside waiting in the car. But she doesn’t recall much.

Lori is staring at Gibb. She appears to have her arms crossed or on the table.

Blake: Prior to Charles’ death, did Lori and Chad stay in contact?

Gibb says they did and talked multiple times a day. She says Lori had at least two cell phones, maybe three.

“She had one phone just for Chad.”

Would Chad and Lori meet up when Charles was alive?

Gibb says they did. She recalls one time when Lori met with Chad at a hotel or went to temples together.

Gibb gives a lot of information but I’ve heard her use “I don’t recall” or “I don’t remember”

Gibb says Lori did indicate that she and Chad were intimate.

Blake asks if Lori thought this was okay.

Gibb says Lori believed it was in God’s will and that because Lori and Chad were married in a past life, this was okay.

Gibb on JJ: Right before he was killed, Lori indicated that he was difficult to handle. It was hard for her to do that and be with Chad.

“She indicated that she was going to ask Kay if she could watch him from now on.” - Gibb

Kay is JJ’s biological grandma if you don’t know the case.

On Lori moving to Idaho: Gibb says this happened in maybe August 2019.

Who moved?

Lori, Tylee, JJ and Alex.

Gibb stayed in contact with Lori even when she got to Idaho and moved in.

She heard Tylee in the background over the phone. But had never seen Tylee since before the family left Chandler.

Blake is asking about Melanie’s visit to Lori in Rexburg. This was in September of 2019. Melanie brought her boyfriend David Warwick and they stayed at Lori’s.

Gibb says she did not see Tylee. She asked about her and says Lori told her Tylee was at BYU Idaho with friends.

Blake asks if Lori made a reference to Tylee.

Gibb says Lori didn’t talk about her much and put her stuff in storage.

Melanie saw JJ at the home.

She says Lori told her about JJ had an evil spirit in him.

Blake: did she indicate what she made observations of JJ?

Gibb: Lori said JJ had become more difficult, his speech was more intelligent and that he said “I love Satan.”

Gibb says Lori told her JJ would climb up on the fridge and was changing.

Blake asks Gibb about her observations of JJ.

She said he was a typical 7-year-old kid.

Blake asks if she has experience with kids who have autism.

She says somewhat.

One day, Gibb noticed JJ was having a tough time, acting out and Chad took him up to the bedroom.

She says Chad came in and out of Lori’s townhome during that visit.

On when Chad took JJ upstairs: Gibb says they eventually came down and she asked Chad why his neck was red. Chad told her JJ scratched his neck.

On the interaction between Lori and Chad: They were affectionate, sang and dance according to Gibb.

She went with them to BYU Idaho campus and saw them kiss when they were in the car.

At this point in time, Tammy Daybell was still alive.

Melanie remembers the last time she saw JJ. It was on 9/22/19 at night and she watched Alex Cox carrying JJ. She did not see him the next day.

Gibb: Lori said it was not the lord’s will for Chad or Lori to get a divorce from their spouses. They would be penalized and Chad would lose his exaltation with God.

Gibb never visited Lori after September 2019 but stayed in contact occasionally.

She also stayed in contact with Chad bc he contacted her, specifically before Thanksgiving.

Gibb says Chad told her not to answer any calls from Rexburg police. She remembers him telling her that police questioned Lori about JJ’s whereabouts.

Gibb says Charles sounded nervous and she asked if JJ was with Kay.

She asked this because Lori told her before that JJ was with Kay after dropping him off with her at the airport.

Gibb says she learned this info a few weeks after her visit.

Gibb says Lori told her about the “airport meeting.”

Lori allegedly told Kay that she had cancer.

On the police visit: Gibb says Lori told RPD that JJ was with Gibb at the movie theater. Gibb says Lori told her to take pictures of kids running around.

Why didn’t Gibb respond to police right away?

She says she didn’t know what to do.

Jurors are looking down taking notes, watching Gibb.

Lori is taking notes as well.

Blake asks about when Gibb eventually did speak with law enforcement. She spoke to Det. Ryan Pillar with Gilbert PD.

Gibb told police she no longer had JJ. She felt weird and uncomfortable. She didn’t know what to do.

Gibb would contact police again. It was in December of 2019.

Blake: Did you tell LE that JJ was never with you?

Gibb: Oh yeah.

She told them JJ had never been with her.

Blake tells Judge Boyce that she will enter exhibits and this could take another 20 minutes plus.

We are about to hear a phone call between Melanie Gibb & Lori Vallow.

Blake says we can play the full call.

This call has been heard before. It involves Gibb, Vallow and Daybell

On the call, you hear Gibb says “this is a recorded call.”

She says it’s December 8th, 2019 and that she is calling Chad Daybell on the recording.

It’s been admitted and we are going to hear more.

Lori pours coffee or water for herself.

We hear Lori and Chad on the recording laughing, happy and greeting Melanie.

Recording: Gibb tells Lori she wants to ask about JJ and Kay. She says she’s wondering what happened.

Lori says she had to move him elsewhere because of her actions.

We have both Lori and Melanie in the same courtroom listening to their conversation from nearly four years ago.

Recording : Chad and Lori tell Melanie that they want to keep JJ and Melanie protected.

Melanie asks why Lori told police JJ was with her.

Lori says that most of her family is working with Kay against her.

On JJ:

“He is safe, and happy.”

“I’m not telling anybody where he is so I can keep him as safe as possible.”

On the call, Gibb tells Lori that she talked to Alex about where JJ was.

She says Alex told her she doesn’t wanna know and JJ “could not be found.”

Recording: How long are you gonna be out? Are you gonna come back?

Lori: I will do whatever the Lord needs me to do.

Recording: Lori says it’s ridiculous that authorities are working with Kay in some dark capacity. There’s no reason for them to be after her, she says on the call.

She claimed Kay has threatened her lots of times.

Melanie wants to read a scripture to Lori on the phone call.

Lori asks if she can ask her a question and gets into biblical stories and figures.

“What about Moroni have to do in the end?… Did he have to hide?” - Lori to Melanie.

Melanie continues to read the scripture and is trying to teach Lori something, per this call.

The talk intensified and comes passive aggressive.

“I promise you I have done nothing wrong in this case.” - Lori Vallow

Lori on Kay: “You already know she’s dark.”

Melanie to Lori: If you really love me, you wouldn’t tell the police that JJ is with me.

She says that doesn’t look good for her.

Lori says she loves Melanie and she can have this confirmed by the lord.

Melanie tells her that she thinks Lori has been deceived by Satan.

Melanie says Tammy died, Charles died and this doesn’t feel right, while on the call.

Lori: “You know me, you know me Mel.”

On the call Lori tells Melanie that she sounds like she’s being influenced.

“I have not been deceived.” - Lori says to Melanie.

Chad Daybell speaks and says that his sister in law, Tammy’s sister is part of a dark team.

Chad says he begged Tammy to go to the doctor. He says his kids were all there in the home when Tammy died.

“All these conspiracy theories are making me sick to my stomach.”

Lori tells Melanie that they can feel Dave’s influence on her, referring to Gibb’s boyfriend.

Lori: I’m sorry for including you in those teachings.

“Honey, you got a lot of natural desires. We all know that.” - Gibb to Lori Vallow on the call.

A lot of code language on this phone call, it appears.

Lori tells Melanie she’s adversarial but “I love you.”

Both Melanie and Lori are looking down right now in the courtroom.

On the call, Lori says Melanie sounds accusatory, pissed off and not concerned.

Melanie says she’s troubled.

Lori and Melanie take jabs at each other on the call about being with someone before they are divorced.

“We are both standing there with Jesus Christ.” - Lori says befor she hangs up on Melanie.

Judge Boyce: This would be a good time to take a break.

Lori has her arms crossed, looks at the gallery as we rise for the jury.

Lori is seated. She’s talking with Archibald alone. He’s nodding and responding to her.

I expect a long testimony from Gibb and thorough cross examination from the defense regarding what she actually saw and heard from Lori Vallow over a lengthy timeline.

Gibb is back on the stand. Direct examination continues.

Blake asks why Gibb recorded that call.

Gibb says she did this in connection to JJ’s safety and to see if she could find out more.

Gibb says when police got involved and she knew JJ was not with Kay, she became concerned.

Gibb remembers her boyfriend David waking up from a bad dream during their stay at Lori’s.

She then called Lori and Chad for a blessing.

Gibb says she tried opening Lori’s door but it was locked.

The next morning Gibb and David Warwick left. They did not see JJ.

Blake wants to go over the call from 12/8/19.

“You’re gonna be accountable for the knowledge you do have.”

Blake cites this quote from Lori. Gibb says this is about the teachings she learned from her and that she would be accountable to God.

Did Lori indicate that she had seen Jesus?

Gibb: She did. Lori said Jesus appeared to her in the temple.

Blake: If Lori was seeing Jesus, would that lead people to turn to her for advice?

Gibb: No I don’t believe so.

On Tammy’s death: Gibb says she asked Lori if she knew that she died. Gibb recalls Lori had found out through some other people.

Gibb asked Lori what happened and Lori says a dark entity was in Tammy and “they did what they had to do to get it out of her.”

“They” is Chad & Lori

Blake asks Gibb how long Lori believed Tammy was dark or possessed?

Gibb says about two weeks before Tammy died and that Tammy had also become suspicious about an affair between her husband and Lori.

Blake: Do you also recall a trust scale?

Gibb: A little bit. I don’t remember trust scale.

Gibb says the term percentage was used at times and that Lori used the terms “scale” and “vibrations.”

Blake is directing Melanie Gibb on more specifics regarding this grading system. Gibb refers to Lori Vallow as the source for this knowledge.

“Sometimes she would say she didn’t have to eat. Sometimes she would get younger.” - Gibb

Gibb says Lori didn’t claim to be a visionary but had a dream here or there.

Blake asks if she talked about these dreams like the one about Charles Vallow dying.

Gibb confirms and says Lori indicated she believed it.

Gibb talked to Alex Cox as well. She says he really did believe the people that they were hoping would pass away, were zombies.

Blake asks her to clarify who are the people hoping anyone would pass away. Gibb says Chad and Lori.

She also says Alex believed what they taught.

Cross examination begins. John Thomas takes the podium.

Thomas asks about last interaction with prosecution.

Gibb pauses and tries to remember. She says it could have been the end of last month.

Thomas asks about when the last visit was prior to that. Gibb says a year before the last.

Thomas asks if she recalls a 7 page outline she sent to Rob Wood. Gibb remembers.

Sidebar requested by Lindsey Blake after Thomas wants testimony stricken.

Judge asks for jury to leave so this objection can be argued.

Thomas has said Gibb is forgetful. She has had some challenges recalling dates or timeframes.

Thomas argues that the state received statements from Gibb that she testified to and indicated that she met with prosecution and the prosecution did not turn over oral statements.

Thomas refers to the last zoom meeting Gibb had with Blake.

Blake says there’s a different interpretation of certain Idaho law by the defense than it’s intended by the rule.

Blake: All of the statements including the 7 page outline by Gibb and police reports have been turned over to the defense.

Judge is reviewing arguments.

Judge has issue with timeliness of the objection.

“You’re asking me to tell the jury to disregard everything they heard all day today?”

Thomas says he has made this objection this week and felt it appropriate to make objection during cross exam.

Judge says rule doesn’t preclude witness from meeting with prosecution before testimony. He says if you were not given the 7 page outline this would be different.

Judge denies motion to strike testimony. He says objection is unfounded.

Judge tells Thomas going forward, unless there’s some written statements that were not provided, he will rule the same way.

Jury is seated again. So far, two phones have been confiscated for audio going off.

Cross exam continues.

Thomas asks Gibb about meeting Chad a year or two before meeting Lori and how she and LV became fast friends in 2018.

From Oct 2018 - Oct 2019, Gibb says she and Lori were very close.

Thomas asks what was it like when Gibb and Vallow met.

Gibb says they would meet at the temple or go get lunch.

Thomas says obviously kids weren’t at the temple or lunch. Gibb clarifies that she would go to Lori’s house after lunch or temple.

Thomas asks about seeing JJ frustrated. Gibb says she’s seen different kids in life have autistic behavior. She noticed he cried often.

Thomas asks about a schedule JJ was on. Gibb says she wasn’t around him often to know bedtime routine or schedule.

Thomas asks if she knew about a special school for JJ. Gibb did.

JJ attended LIFE Academy in Gilbert AZ. Also known as Lauren’s Institute for Education.

Thomas asks about Lori and Chad for the first time. He’s clarifying the month and year.

He asks about when Chad stayed the night at Lori’s home in Arizona. Melanie stayed the night and Thomas asks about how many others stayed. Gibb says maybe 6 people.

Thomas on Chad and Lori that night: This wasn’t a hookup, right?

Gibb: I can’t agree with that.

Thomas asks if Gibb really thinks Chad and Lori had something going on while others were at the home.

We have not see Jim Archibald do any cross exam with a witness. He’s spoken at the podium during opening statements. That’s it. If I’m incorrect, let me know.

Thomas on Lori’s alleged special mission on earth: You indicated that was biblically referenced, and Lori was the head of this 144K? Were you brought into this group?

Gibb: Lori indicated that we were apart of it.

Thomas asks about the “casting out of devils”: You did this with Lori, correct?

Gibb: Correct.

Thomas: Did you ever feel like this was the wrong thing to do?

Gibb: It felt unusual but innocent to me.

Thomas asks if innocent means praying for good and for hunger to end, things like that.

Gibb says not that she’s aware of.

Thomas: Tell me about this light and dark… did you believe any of that?

Gibb: I did, somewhat but not completely.

The jury watches Thomas closely.

Lori swivels back and forth slowly in her chair, looking at Melanie.

Thomas asks where the castings happened. Gibb says they happened in homes.

Thomas asks what does a casting look like. Gibb says generally people stood up in a circle and Lori would express the castings out by her terminology from either energy work or scriptures.

Thomas asks about energy work. Gibb tells him she has had this done for her. She says some practitioners can communicate with people on the other side of the veil.

Thomas: “Let’s talk about zombies.”

Thomas: When Lori talked about zombies, did you immediately think they were going to die?

Gibb: It was a bizarre teaching and Lori thought that too. Something we had never heard of.

Thomas asks about indication of Tylee being a zombie since she was 12 or 13. Gibb says Chad told this to Lori and Lori told this to her.

On Brandon Boudreaux: Thomas confirms with Gibb that the group thought Boudreaux was a dark spirit, apart of Hitler’s group in a past life.

Thomas asks about Tylee going dark between Feb-June of 2019. Gibb answers correct.

And in September of 2019, Thomas asks about JJ becoming an alleged dark spirit. She confirms.

Thomas asks if she prayed for them. Gibb says no.

Judge calls for lunch recess.

Back in court. Lori Vallow is seated with John Thomas. She has her glasses off for the first time and is speaking to Thomas as he goes over notes.

Melanie Gibb goes back to the stand.

Jury is seated and John Thomas will continue cross examination of Gibb.

Thomas asks Gibb about the shooting of Charles Vallow. He brings the focus to the fight between Charles and Alex Cox.

On Charles’ life insurance policy: Thomas asks if there was any monetary incentive for Lori Vallow. Gibb says she doesn’t know if there would have been. Thomas says just prior to his death, it was known that Charles changed the beneficiary to Kay Woodcock.

How many times did Police call Melanie? She says about twice and they did leave a message.

Thomas appears to be trying to poke holes in her story.

He confirms with her that she told Gilbert PD a lie about having JJ and then not having him.

Gibb says she is now married to David Warwick, her then-boyfriend in 2019.

Thomas clarifies if Gibb contacted Det. Pillar before the recorded phone call with Chad and Lori. She did.

Throughout testimonies, we now know how instrumental Ryan Pillar of @GilbertPolice was to this investigation.

Portals: Gibb tells Thomas how Lori had a portal in her closet and Chad had one on his bed. That’s how they could communicate.

Thomas: Did you have a portal?
Gibb: oh, no.

As Thomas asks Gibb about certain biblical figures, Lori is taking notes and watching Gibb.

Gibb says she asked Alex Cox if she wants to know what happened to him. He said “no, you don’t want to know.”

Gibb says he told her about the police taking his guns.

Gibb says Alex told her about the honeymoon he was going to take with his new wife Zulema Pastenes. He also talked about a patriarchal blessing he received from Chad.

When Gibb asked Alex the question about JJ, she says Melani Pawlowski was there. Thomas asks if Alex kept skirting the issue.

Gibb says she became concerned.

Thomas is done questioning Gibb. Blake is ready to redirect.

Blake asks Gibb about Tylee Ryan not liking her. She confirms that Gibb has been around other teens. Gibb says if you have been around other teenagers who have been disrespectful, Tylee would fit into that category.

Gibb says she witnessed the 16yo be disrespectful to Tylee.

Disrespectful to Lori ***correction***

On the service dog for JJ: Blake asks Gibb if Lori talked about bringing that dog.

Objection - outside the scope. Judge sustains.

But fyi, Lori gave up JJ’s service dog before they moved to Idaho. The dog helped JJ a lot especially with sleep.

Blake asks Gibb if she wanted to believe Lori at all. She says yes, and Lori was very convincing.

Blake asks if the term zombie used by Lori was different from the traditional definition. Gibb says yes.

The way Lori allegedly told Gibb about zombies was that a dark spirit could be pushed out of a body, or destroyed. Not in the way of a horror film.

Gibb on a pattern she saw regarding zombies - when someone in Lori’s life was against her, they were deemed zombies.

The word zombie is being repeated and the jury is trying to keep up with questioning.

Gibb answers yes to Blakes questions of who Lori deemed zombies.

Charles Vallow
Tylee Ryan
JJ Vallow