Thread by @edwinhayward

The debate about the impact of Brexit is about to start in Westminster Hall (at 16:30).

I will try and live-tweet stuff that catches my eye. Refresh the thread!

Meanwhile, you should be able to view proceedings online via Parliament TV at the link below.
parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/64…

We seem to be live.

I can see around 30 MPs on screen. There may be more off-camera.

Proceedings open with a reference to the petition, and a reminder that it's still open for signatures. You can sign it at the link below.
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/6282…

One small hiccup: because it's being shown on Parliament TV, MPs aren't labelled as they speak like they would be on say BBC Parliament, so you'll have to forgive me for not identifying some of them.

(I am absolutely terrible at names and faces.)

"The number of school children coming to Britain has halved because they can no longer travel on IDs".

(The debate is not being shown on BBC Parliament, which is focused on the House of Commons. Nor on the BBC News channel, nor Sky News. Perhaps some snippets will be excerpted later, though I won't hold my breath.)

Caroline Lucas: "One of the most valuable features of a democracy is the potential for error correction. You can therefore take into account that if peoples' minds have changed, as is increasingly the case with Brexit, then the only logical thing to do is change the decision."

Liz Saville Roberts (I think?): "We can't just multiply excuses. We've got to face the reality that Brexit is part of the problem. With that, from my party's POV, we should of course be looking to rejoin the Single Market."

This debate feels like a slightly mournful affair, like a gathering of people who know full well with 100% certainty that the Earth isn't flat, but also can't get away from the fact that those in charge at the moment are card-carrying Flat Earthers.

(In other words, it's important that it's happening. But as far as moving the Tories goes, that's another matter entirely.)

The new EU entry/exit system coming in next year gets a mention. It will affect us in the UK, just like it will other non-EU citizens. (EU citizens are exempt from all the red tape.) Cue even longer queues at the borders.

Quick aside: there's some interesting breaking news away from the debate. Tucker Carlson is (was) the most popular presenter on Fox News. But he is also incredibly rightwing - even measured by FN standards!

https://twitter.com/DylanByers/status/1650522061721182210?s=20

Adam Holloway is up for the Tories. He points out that 65% of his constituents voted for Brexit.

Adam Holloway: "For years, the government, with the collusion of the Civil Service, treated Brexit as a gigantic strategic mistake by the people of the UK, and saw their role as one of damage limitation."

Adam Holloway: "To me, the single most important benefit of Brexit has been realised, because our sovereignty has been repatriated."

(There's a lot of this sort of thing. Enough hot air to get a balloon aloft.)

Adam Holloway: "It's easy to undervalue sovereignty, if the areas in which it was surrendered to the EU don't actually impact your life. It's easy to disdain patriotism if you're economically and socially mobile, and derive your self-worth from a well-paid job."

Not going to transcribe the whole nonsense spew, because that would involve rewinding and listening again and again.

My gut instinct is that he (and maybe other Tories) are there just to take chunks of time away from the debate, and spoonfeed quotes to the RW tabloids.

Wera Hobhouse: "Discussing Brexit has become a bit of a political taboo. An inquiry into the impact would help us to face up to reality, and give a true picture of its impact on people, business and the whole of the economy. We need evidence, not government propaganda."

Wera Hobhouse (quoting the OBR): "It will leave a larger scar on our economy than the pandemic. Can I say that again? It will leave a larger scar on our economy than the pandemic."

Wera Hobhouse: "Brexit has made the hostile environment even more hostile. EU citizens who have built their lives here were made to feel unwelcome. It is no wonder that many have left. Among them were vital NHS workers."

Wera Hobhouse: "The ATA carnet required for moving unaccompanied instruments from the UK to the EU costs up to £310+VAT, plus a deposit of 30-40% of the value the items. They are time consuming to prepare, and cause customs delays and concert cancellations."

Fleur Anderson up for Labour.

Fleur Anderson: "An online poll by Omnisys last week showed that 59% thought that an inquiry should probably or definitely be launched, with just 25% against."

Fleur Anderson: "Week in, week out, Labour has been raising issues about the impact of Brexit."

Sorry to say, but that feels like a big fat lie. Individual Labour MPs may have freelanced their concerns, but the position of the front bench has been pretty unanimous.

Fleur Anderson: "An inquiry would be hugely expensive and very delayed. It would take a long time, but people want answers now, so that we can mitigate against the damage of Brexit..."

She's now sitting on the fence about Brexit itself.

In other words, Fleur Anderson seems to be pro Brexit inquiry, but she isn't willing to stake a clear claim that Brexit *is* damaging, only that there should be an investigation into *whether* it is damaging.

As wishy-washy as Labour has ever been.

[Sounds of cheering/jeering (?) from outside leaking into the audio feed. Perhaps there's a loud protest going on somewhere? I honestly don't know.]

And now Fleur Anderson is reading off a long list of specific problems, but then says "I would like to know which of these have been the result of Brexit".

Aside: there's less than 24H to secure your vote for the upcoming local elections, if you don't have a valid form of photo ID.

https://twitter.com/MirrorPolitics/status/1650533151456854016?s=20

I'm having to fast-forward a bit because of having paused so often to get quotes as accurate as possible. So apologies, but I missed most of what Amy Callaghan said.

Stephen Farry: "The fact that the UK was able to enter the EU and also to leave proves that the UK had sovereignty all along. But it was by pooling that sovereignty with the EU that we were able to deliver collective outcomes for people across Europe and crucially within the UK."

Sarah Green: "42% of businesses in Bucks are facing higher costs as a result of increased red tape, nearly a third are paying extra tariffs or taxes, and a quarter are paying the price of changes to their supply chains. For small businesses [the] strain can be immense."

Sarah Green: "[The owner of a care company] recently told me, in very emotional terms, how most days he has to tell someone he can't provide the care they're seeking for a loved one because he just can't find the staff."

Jim Shannon (DUP): "I'm a stark believer in democracy and the democratic process, whatever the outcome of that process will be. It's the foundation my party the DUP was built on. I wholeheartedly believe in the results of the Brexit vote. I voted for Brexit."

JS: "Unfortunately we're 7 years on from the referendum, yet there's still outstanding work to be done. Why did [my constituency] vote so whole-heartedly for Brexit? Because they saw opportunities for the fishing sector, for job opportunities, for the potential to invest."

JS: "What Brexit gave firms is the opportunity to sell their products in other markets across the world."

(A lot of tired arguments in the same vein.)

Quick favour: if you're still reading along, perhaps you could retweet the first tweet in this thread? Thanks.

(Embedded below to make things easier.)

https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1650522013537017860?s=20

BTW, I'm not sure how much value there is in transcribing things that are OBVIOUSLY untrue. So I will only do so if there's a particularly problematic quote.

Hilary Benn, up for Labour.

"Of course it was a democratic decision. And we Remainers, we lost."

"What I think was unforgivable was to claim that we could have all our sovereignty, keep all the benefits of membership, and gain other benefits on top."

Hilary Benn: "We felt it was important to ask that question, and then you let the evidence speak for itself." (Talking about the fact not many companies have come before Parliamentary committees to talk about having benefitted from Brexit.)

Hilary Benn: "We're going to be the worst performing large economy in the world this year. Business investment as a percentage of GDP has stalled since the referendum."

Hilary Benn: "The promised trade deal with the USA, the biggest argument we heard - absolutely nowhere to be seen. It's not happening. It's not coming."

Hilary Benn: "If you make trade with your biggest partner more difficult, which is what we've done, then don't be surprised if it has an adverse effect on the British economy at a time we need all the growth we can get to help our constituents."

HB: "The other irony about sovereignty is, the government said we're going to use our sovereignty to introduce our version of the REACH chemical regulations. They've just postponed it for the second time, not least because the industry said 'you know it will cost us £2 billion?'"

HB: "It is really striking that those who argued so strongly for these benefits - no downsides, only upsides - and all those other quotes which come back to haunt them. They find it hard to say anything, so they turn to blaming Remainers."

Hilary Benn: "It is striking that when I look at the other parties with the exception of the SNP - who want a referendum for another purpose - none of those parties are saying we should have a referendum after the next GE to see if the British people have changed their minds."

Hilary Benn: "The truth is, you can't reverse it just like that. And we know that."

He's then dissecting the Green, LibDem etc. positions.

Hilary Benn: "We're going to have to build a new relationship with the EU. It's going to take time. Who knows what that will look like. Who knows what this country will look like in 10 or 20 or 30 years time."

30 years?! And just like that, we're in chocolate teapot territory.

That was VERY disappointing.

I wasn't expecting Hilary Benn to shout "To the barricades, now! Tear down that Brexit."

But to punt the idea of a major change potentially three decades into the future made all his wise words up to that point irrelevant.

Missed what Hywel Williams said. Apologies.

Caroline Lucas next.

Caroline Lucas: "I do believe that if a sufficient number of people over time choose it, there is a way back into the EU. That is the virtue and beauty of democracy."

(She then starts dissecting some of the Big Brexit Lies, like the £350 million on the side of the bus.)

Caroline Lucas: "During the Chancellor's recent Autumn statement, he spoke for almost an hour without once acknowledging the economic catastrophe of Brexit."

Caroline Lucas: "Misleading the public includes by wishful thinking. Who could forget those endless conjurings of sunlit uplands, ignoring reality, telling half the story, cherry-picking, and frankly lying."

Caroline Lucas: "In the wake of the referendum, I [went around the UK listening to Leave voters]. The overwhelming message was that people voted for Brexit because they felt powerless, unheard by a political establishment that had not listened for decades."

Caroline Lucas: "It is with great sadness that I see that the Labour leadership has capitulated to the tyranny where even to talk about rejoining is somehow judged to be antidemocratic."

This. A million times this.

Caroline Lucas: "I think the public deserves that we talk about it. If rejoining the EU is the right thing for the economy, environment, worker's rights, young people, public services etc. then we should take that step when the time is right."

Caroline Lucas: "We should be preparing for that possibility taking a step by step approach, such as negotiating membership now of the customs union, full engagement with Horizon, maintaining alignment with EU regulations [and several more points like that]."

Caroline Lucas "Brexit was the result of a divided UK. And it threatens to divide us further unless we build a democratic consensus about changing that together, for good."

Stella Creasy: "I have no desire to rerun 2016, when the damage in 2023 is so apparent."

Stella Creasy: "The truth is, we know what damage Brexit is doing to our country. We've been seeing it for years now."

"You can fight many battles in life, but you can't fight geography. Not being able to trade so easily with a market of 500 million makes a difference."

Stella Creasy: "We can't be a world-beating international leader if we're only doing it in our own back yard. And we can't do competitive trade deals when we are a small nation, not part of a big conglomerate negotiating them. That's why the US put us at the back of the queue."

Stella Creasy: "We know that time is of the essence. The damage being done grows every day. The jobs that were here are going overseas."

Stella Creasy goes on to say she's ambivalent about this call for public inquiry, and for the format, because there's no mechanism to hold the government to their findings.

Stella Creasy: "How do we [sort the problems of Brexit]? We've got to work out how we get direct access to that single market. We've got to work out how we deal with the paperwork. We've got to get on with getting that visa system sorted out."

Ok, she's firmly in the trees now.

Stella Creasy, just like Hilary Benn, falls at the most important hurdle of all: a willingness to DO things that will make a major difference to Brexit.

Having eloquently listed all the problems, she carefully fails to identify the OBVIOUS solution.

Having to skip ahead again. For me, the most crucial thing is to hear what Labour MPs are saying, because they're the obvious brick wall across the motorway that leads to joining the SM, the CU, and potentially even the EU again.

(Sorry, realise that's not ideal.)

Layla Moran: "If we're going to move on - and noone here is trying to prosecute the arguments of the past - if we don't cool headedly look at what's happened, how on earth are we going to repair it?"

Layla Moran: "We need to seek cooperation agreements. A full return to Erasmus+. But also an agreement on asylum. We need to negotiate greater access for our world-leading food and animal products to the single market. We need deals on sector-specific work visas."

Layla Moran: "And finally, we should be seeking membership into the Single Market. It may be the SM + CU. It will have changed slightly by then. But we need full unfettered access."

So not rejoin, then, even as an ultimate goal? Naughty LibDems!

John Nicolson: "What of my Labour friends? Alas, they are leaderless and sinking on Europe. A party tethered to the anchor of a failing Brexit. With honourable exceptions - I'm talking about the party leadership."

100% accurate.

Related aside: if you're angry because of my LibDem comment, lobby LibDem MPs not me.

Layla Moran laid out step by step how she claimed the LD saw the future of Brexit.

And her step by step map ended at SM membership NOT rejoin. She chose to end things there, on the record.

Alyn Smith: "The SNP is the most pro-EU party in this parliament. Our mission is to get an independent country in the EU."

Alyn Smith: "It's really important I say to an UK audience. At the same time, the SNP wants to see the UK do well. I don't want to see the UK have a bad time. I believe that the UK should be as close to the EU, if not part of the EU, as possible."

Alyn Smith: "I'm not interested in rerunning the referendum. That was a long time ago. The world's changed. I respect everyone who voted Leave, and I think people who voted Leave were entitled to believe the promises they were made."

Alyn Smith rattles off a list of all the unsubstantiated promises, like the £350 million for the NHS. "Who wouldn't vote for that? It's remarkable the result wasn't higher."

Alyn Smith supports the notion of an inquiry.

"The vote was presented as a risk free consequence free vote. Everything you like, you'll keep, everything you don't like, or don't understand, will recede from your life. Well, the reality will be very different."

Alyn Smith wants to expand the inquiry into the dubious techniques and tactics used by Leave during the referendum.

Alyn Smith [talking about near-term actions] "I'm not talking about reversing Brexit, I'm talking about dealing with the problems we have right now." (Gives specific examples of things he'd like to see fixed, like problems for food exporters.)

Stephen Doughty [pointing to the single Tory MP contribution]: "In contrast, we in Labour will not shy away from engaging constructively in debates surrounding the impacts of the Government's handling of Brexit on people, communities and businesses across the UK."

Hmm. Really?

Stephen Doughty: "We want to focus on some of the most important tasks today: making our relationship with the EU work, growing our economy, defending our security, and tackling common challenges from energy to climate change."

Stephen Doughty (wrapping up on behalf of Labour): "We will NOT seek to rejoin the EU, the Single Market or the Customs Union. But it is imperative we make our future relationship with the EU work."

Firmly into "we won't repair the ship, but we fancy nicer lifeboats" territory.

Stephen Doughty: "I must say from the outset that we do not believe expending scarce financial resources on a public inquiry that would take years to complete would be the right step forward. We already expose the Government's failings on this topic on a weekly basis."

LIE!

Stephen Doughty: "I would far rather see millions that could be spent on an inquiry instead used in practically addressing some of the very many flaws and holes we've seen today."

He's doubling down on the "no inquiry" line.

Stephen Doughty: "We would completely change the tone and tenor of our relationship with the EU and form the basis for an ambitious partnership based on common interest and mutual respect, clear about our position outside the EU, but optimistic about what we can do [together]."

Related aside: if you want to continue to claim that Labour will pivot to a "join the SM, CU, or EU" position after a GE, that's gaslighting of the highest order.

Nothing ANY Labour MP has said today even hints at the merest smidge of that possibility, not within decades.

Stephen Doughty: "The trade barriers put in place by the [Brexit deal] - tearing them down would be a priority for a Labour government outside of the SM and of the CU. We need to be candid and frank: we will not be able to deliver completely frictionless trade with the EU."

Stephen Doughty is now rattling off a laundry list of cherry picked changes Labour wants.

He goes on: "Whilst we do not support the return of freedom of movement, we will seek to find flexible labour mobility arrangements for those making short-term work trips"

Stephen Doughty: "In conclusion, I understand calls from the many petitioners for a rigorous assessment into the government's failings when it comes to the Brexit deal. We will not shirk away on this side from addressing those failings or denying their existence."

Stephen Doughty: "But I do believe that relitigating old arguments does not build a plan on which to base the future, or to set a new course with our closest neighbours and allies in Europe."

So, in summary, Labour say:

- No to an inquiry
- No to joining the Single Market
- No to joining the Customs Union
- No to rejoining the EU
- No to restoring freedom of movement

And they claim (falsely) they're holding the Tories to account on Brexit on a near weekly basis.

Dinner's calling. In fact, it's congealing, I fear. So I must draw the commentary to a close here.

That's everything covered, on the whole, except the final wrap up by the Tory minister. Having dipped briefly into it, it's the usual mix of boosterism and lies.

Hope you found this useful and modestly interesting.

NOTE: You can catch up with the debate on Parliament TV at the link below. (It's about 15 minutes shorter than the start/end timestamps suggest, because there was a break at one point.)
parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/64…

Added: a partial transcript of this afternoon's Brexit inquiry debate in Westminster Hall is now in Hansard.

(I presume the rest of it will be uploaded within a couple of hours, so it's worth reloading the link until you see it all.)

#BrexitInquiry
hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-0…