Thread by @TWilsonOttawa

Here we go!! A special meeting of #SECU to study the withdrawn amendments to #C21 - #TheHuntingGunBan 🇨🇦

Watch this thread for my #LiveTweets

Watch here: ourcommons.ca/Committees/en/…

Read here: 👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻

Currently 6 minutes late starting … stand by

And here we are. 20 minutes late. Let’s begin.

Chair does the usual housekeeping. Introduces the topic: a study of the withdrawal of amendments G4, G46.

Introduces witnesses: @marcomendicino and a string of officials from RCMP, PS, CBSA, DOJ.

Chair invites Marco to make opening statement.

Mendicino says the bill is aimed at public safety, will fight against gun crimes and violence. Will remove battlefield guns from communities.

Speaks to other measures within the scope of C21.

Says he is focused on getting this bill right, and getting it passed. Says he has consulted hunters, indigenous and rural and northern Canadians. Says he’s met with gun owners across the country.

Says he grieves with families of victims of violence.

Has attended 10 cops funerals. Says we owe it to them to keep going. Mentions the NS shooting, MCC report. Notes the MCC recommended more gun bans. Says the vast majority of Canadians support a ban on guns designed to inflict the greatest number of fatalities in the shortest time

Says this ban is just one way to stop gun violence. Speaks to border measures, smuggled guns. Goes on about stopping violence before it begins. Says they’ve invested in this.

Talks about funding initiatives, strong gun legislation. Says we want to prevent another Polytechnic or… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Says we must strike the right balance. Says we have a responsibility to pass this bill and strengthen it. Says he’s excited about amendments to ban more guns.

Says Canadians are counting on them to use facts not fear 🙄

Dancho begins. Chastises Marco for waiting 3 weeks to come to SECU. Speaks to Marco saying he’ll stop gun smuggling, primary focus. Asks about new 14 year sentence - asks how common the existing 10 year sentence has been applied? #TrickQuestion #never

Marco goes on about trusting the judiciary. Dancho cuts him off. Says he has confidence in judges. Dancho reveals data from HIS office - zero smugglers have ever gotten the maximum 10 year sentence under this leadership. 🔥

Dancho moves to the red flag provisions. Lists all the experts and groups who’ve all slammed the proposed red flags 🚩 they’re not supported. Quotes women’s groups criticizing the risk women will be exposed to, indigenous communities worried about abuse of authority.

Dancho says there isn’t much of value in C21. There’s still tons of amendments to review. He’s also got other bills in the oven. She says violent crime is rising by 32% - is his plan to withdraw this wasteful bill?

Marco says there are a lot of good stuff in this bill.

Mentions the handgun freeze - she says it’s already in place. Mentions the red flags - says they’ll modify them. Says he’s also concerned about the maximum sentences too. Says raising them sends a message.

Shiefke now (Lib) - asks about a definition for “assault style firearms” after his consultations. Marco goes over the historical details of what they’ve already done (OIC). Mentions the MCC report again. Says we should continue this work and table an amendment. Doesn’t answer the… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Marco explains the RCMP lab usually does classifications. Says we need a better process, technical definition and they’ll work with the industry. Shiefke asks about manufacturers “circumventing” (read complying) with laws? Marco shouts out @Polysesouvient and @DanforthFSC

Marco says they will answer the call of the MCC and make a technical definition. Shiefke says some QC cops support a ban - asks if police concerns are important? Very. Reminds he’s been to 10 cop funerals. It’s a very difficult time.

Marco thanks QC cops for supporting gun bans. Says we have an opportunity and a responsibility to answer these calls.

Michaud now (Bloq) - says she’s dissappointed and wanted new amendments now.

Michaud wants to know what solutions he’s found to define military guns vs hunting. Michaud says we must continue clause by clause. Where are the new gun ban amendments?

Marco says he’s working on the definition. Goes through criteria in OIC.

Michaud asks why he hasn’t tabled any new amendments. He says that’s what they’ll do. Michaud criticizes C21 - complains it doesn’t go far enough. Marco defends it, says we’ve gone further than we ever have.

Speaks to the handgun freeze - says it’s historic. Says they’ll fix the red flags. Says the more severe sentences will stop smuggling. Michaud says G4, G46 were unclear. Wants a clear definition. Says we just capture future guns too.

Complains about lists - says we just need a definition. Marco says he’s been listening and working on it. Thinks he can achieve it.

Michaud says if hunting guns are included can it lead to confusion. Marco: yes. We can be more clear.

Julian now (NDP). Asks Marco about manufactures? Says there are “loopholes” with new models. Says they bypass (comply) with the law. Asks about current classification process.

Marco says we can help gun makers play a role in classification.

Says they need to understand they must submit new models for inspection (this exists now 🤔) - says the lab can help them know which could be banned later.

Julian asks about ghost guns. Says cops find 3D printers, gun parts bought legally.

Says it’s all legal until they put the gun together. Asks if this is a problem?

Marco says yes. Ghost guns are solely for illicit purposes. Says they’re impossible to trace. Says they should submit an amendment.

Marco says there are already provisions under the CC to help but they could table something new. Julian asks about indigenous consultations. Marco says he’ll tell us all about it.

Shipley now (CPC). Speaks to the misinformation claims

The Liberal government themselves admitted they made a mistake. Shipley wants an apology. Marco says he is committed to strengthening the bans. Says he will protect Canadians. Shipley says we must think about how we got here

Shipley says there wasn’t enough consultations, so a huge uproar. Shipley wants to know about Marco’s tour? Was it to try and sell the gun ban or consult? Marco says “designed for the battlefield blah blah”

Motz is out of order for saying he’s dishonest

Shipley quotes TOStar story slamming him for his communication failures. Marco says we have an opportunity to make a good bill even better. Shipley calls it a disaster. Marco days the consequences of not passing this is bad

Taleeb now (Lib) - asks Marco about his travel tour - what did you hear about a definition? Asks about grandpa joes hunting rifle. What would you say to him? Marco says he respects hunters and the facts are these guns were designed for the battlefield.

Speaks to the criteria in the OIC (20mm, 10k joules). Says the MCC is asking for this too. Says we need a responsible discussion. Taleeb says there has been some confusion. Asks about misinformation. Asks Marco to elaborate.

Marco says it’s important to talk to and listen to Canadians. Says most people understand the goal: wartime guns being removed. Says we must resist disinformation. Says the online debate is toxic. Says “special interest groups” want “no laws at all” 🤔

Back to Michaud (BQ) - asks Marco about high capacity magazines. Says it’s already an offence to alter your mags. Says there are loopholes and mags have been created to use more than 5 and they’re easily modified.

Michaud asks if he can ban guns that hold more than 5 rounds permanently. Marco says C21 has a disposition within it for bigger sentence for modifying mags. Says he is studying the issue.

Julian now (NDP) - back to indigenous organizations who opposed the amendments. Asks about the consultations and how we can preserve Sec35 hunting rights. Marco says he’s had constructive discussions. Speaks to food security, culture, self protection.

Says this bill will not impact indigenous rights in any way. Says we must respect them. Asks about CFAC (dormant for years). Julian asks if we bring it back? Marco says it’s a concept he supports. Says he may assemble a new one.

Julian asks about guns seized at the border. Marco can’t remember. Says 1100 he thinks.

Lloyd now (CPC) - speaks to MCC report echoing Liberal policies - asks how a ban would have stopped his smuggled guns?

Marco stops to mourn the families. Dane asks him to answer the question- how would it have prevented it? Marco says it would have lowered the number of guns in our communities 🤡

Lloyd says the cops knew he had illegal guns, how do bans prevent access to illegal guns. Marco says he’s invested in CBSA. Says calling this gun ban “virtue signalling” is disrespectful. Lloyd says it’s disrespectful to victims to use them instead of crafting credible policy

Lloyd says gun owners have a vested interest in public safety. They aren’t responsible for crime. Slams Marco for saying we want no laws at all. Nobody has said that. Marco says MCC, cops, victims and all Canadian support gun bans. Gun owners too. 😂

Lloyd lists cops who’ve slammed this ban. Says repeat violent offenders getting back out of jail is the problem. 🔥

Marco says he hopes the CPC supports investments in borders and mental health

Chiang now (Lib) - asks marco to elaborate on his government’s efforts to combat crime. Marco rattles on about community funding. (A fraction of what they’ll spend on banning hunting rifles)

Concedes time to Gaheer (Lib) reads prewritten question asking for Marco to highlight the funding again. Marco continues to repeat all the funding promises previously made. Says we have to do more. Gun bans are prevention.

Marco says his government’s work on housing strategy, mental health investments will prevent crime. Says the committee should study prevention too.

That’s the end of first round. Minister leaves. 5 minute suspension. BRB

Sidebar: that round goes to @DaneLloydMP 🏆 for wrecking the Minister

Ok we’re back. Chair says there are no statements. Let’s go to just questions. Suggests they go later since they started late.

Lloyd first. (CPC) - says they toured the RCMP lab, asks about working with manufacturers. RCMP says yes they works together

Lloyd asks if manufacturers can legally import guns that haven’t been pre-approved? Talal (PS) answers - says that some NR should be actually R? Lloyd asks how many times this has happened?

Paquette says there are more new models who haven’t received FRT numbers. Lloyd asks if a manufacturer imported an R and said it was NR, wouldn’t they be liable? Paquette says the businesses may be unaware of constantly changing regulations

Lloyd asks if these particular guns are being used by criminals? Are they exploiting this? No.

Moved to 10k joules - some very expensive, unique guns are caught in this? Have they been used for crimes in Canada. No.

Lloyd says this seems to not be an objective assessment that these guns are a threat.

Moved to airsoft. Can they be converted to real guns? Talal says some can, but the concern is that cops say they look to real.

Chair reminds the committee that witnesses are non partisan.

Taleeb now (Lib) - turns to RCMP. Asks about a technical definition?

Says cops need a formal definition in order to carry out investigations.

Says many other countries admire our strict licensing regime. Taleeb asks about ghost guns. Wants to know about regulating essential components of guns (barrels, slides). Cop says they’re continuing consultations because it’s more common.

Cop says there is an opportunity to regulate parts and ghost guns. Says the RCMP is interested in helping reduce ghost guns. Taleeb asks Talal about ghost guns. Says parts are being bought and printed. It’s a rising problem.

Taleeb asks about global concern for ghost guns. What’s missing in Canada? Says he can’t give advice, but says there is good info in the SECU briefing.

Michaud now (BQ) - asks about consultations over the amendments and if they’re beyond the scope of the bill?

Asks if we can table a motion to broaden the scope of the bill to include a big gun ban? Can’t discuss legal advice.

Michaud moves to Larkin (RCMP) - asks about airsoft being converted.

Michaud says it happens often (?) asks if we can regulate airsoft parts to not be compatible with real guns? Paquette (CFP) - says AR-15’s parts and size is the same as some airsoft. Says they found 100 in BC. Michaud asks what they need to stop it?

Michaud asks about keeping up with technology evolving? Larkin says they’ve created a new unit (NWEST). Says they may have to reallocate resources. Trends in crime change. Funding is always the challenge. The CFP needs money.

Julian now (NDP) - asks about the loopholes. Says the inspection process is loose. Says manufacturers may accidentally exploit them. Moves to ghost guns. Says Biden has taken action.

US seized 20k ghost guns. How many in Canada? Taylor (DOJ) says they don’t have the data because they don’t separate ghost guns from other guns. Julian asks how we can get the data? Taylor says Stats Can could do it as a project, or making a new offence and track charges

Julian asks for a request for the data from Stats Can. Julian asks about border measures? How many illegal guns come across? Asks about the buyback - says people say the offers are unfair.

Talal (PS) says they’ve received feedback from stakeholders and gun owners about the buyback price offers. Working on it.

Anson (CBSA) says we see a 40% increase in seizures, don’t know about smuggled guns that don’t get caught but says it’s prob also up 40%

Motz now (CPC) - asks panel, did anyone here have a hand in crafting C21. Taleel says yes. Nobody else. Motz asks if anyone provided evidence to the Minister that C21 will positively impact public safety. Taleel says they provided something on DV.

Taleel says the MCC report is also supporting C21. Motz says he hasn’t seen any credible evidence that banning guns from legal owners will impact public safety. Says this bill doesn’t help.

Motz speaks to testimony of Dr Bryant (AB CFO). She spoke to the term assault “style” firearms having no definition. She defined actual assault weapons as having full auto capability. Motz says he’s concerned this is a waste of time.

Motz complains the Minister left it to the committee to figure it out. Motz says we need a non political group to classify guns. Talal says the intent of the definition was to provide clarity of what guns we don’t accept in Canada

Gaheer now (Lib) - asks about red flags. Women’s groups slammed cops for bad response to DV calls, said we don’t need the new red flags. Talal says the new red flags are meant to compliment existing red flags, not replace them.

Says there is still lots of work to do, and law enforcement must respond to calls better. Larkin (RCMP) says hearing these complaints is hard. They’re expanding training for cops.

Gaheer speaks to C5 (lessens sentences) - says it’s to stop racism. Taylor (DOJ) explains what crimes had their MMP’s removed, says it’s to prevent racism. Says sentences must reflect the seriousness of the crime. Says Marco has confidence in the Justice system.

Michaud now (BQ) - asks RCMP about guns made in Canada vs foreign. Wants a pre authorization program for new guns coming in. Paquette (CFP) explains that R’s and prohib MUST be all verified. Says the concern is over the NR’s. Says they may not verify them.

Julian now (NDP) - asks Taylor (DOJ) - confirms we can get ghost gun data. Moves to buyback program complaints. Asks about the value of the banned guns isn’t met. Maybe someone paid $3k for a gun but only offered $1.5k - it’s disrespectful to owners.

Julian wants to know if they’ll fix this. Talal says the Minister is committed to “fair value”. Won’t commit to fixing this concern. Julian asks Ansen for an estimate of flow of smuggled guns. Ansen says we can only guesstimate.

Lloyd now (CPC) - asks about Stats Can data that says 0.47% of crimes had a long gun present - how many of this small number are ASF’s? They don’t know. Could be none. Lloyd speaks to mental health crises in gun owners. We used to be able to send our guns to family or friends for… twitter.com/i/web/status/1…

Under the freeze we can’t. Can we transfer our guns to cops and get them back? Talal says cops decide if they get them back. Paquette says the CFO could help them. Handguns? No

Damoff now (Lib) - asks about red flags and abused cops wives. How will this bill work? Talal says the victim will go to the court. They can get funding. Women’s groups will get money to guide women through red flag process.

Damoff asks about cops not responding to DV calls because victims can go to court instead. Larkin says cops will still be responsible for responding.

Chair thanks witnesses.

Meeting adjourned.

Fin