Thread by @Scot_Feminists

#C4GenderWars T- 6mins. Had your tactical wee? Phone on mute, vocal lubrication to help you rant/cheer at the screen? Have a few @GussieGrips clinches while you wait.

https://twitter.com/Scot_Feminists/status/1663646093987528708

*clenches. Dread to think what clinches @GussieGrips gets into...*shudders*

And we're...off! #C4Genderwars do your worst! The Scottish witches are waiting...

First mention of #TransTelepathy, knowing what Kathleen Stock is thinking, regardless of what she says

#C4GenderWars @GussieGrips outing herself as female (shock horror). And straight to the crux of the matter. If a male someone calls themselves a woman, are they a woman? Why no, of course they're not

#C4GenderWars Lots of #TransJoy on display and they mask up and shout at their Prof. at Sussex Uni

#C4GenderWars Now some Katy Jon, who we believe refers to themselves as a trans-identifying male.

#C4GenderWars Katy reads books that he disagrees with, only hope is with moderates in both camps while he feels he has been shunned by both sides

#C4GenderWars Julie Bindel! Definitely female. Explaining she resp3cts someone living "as the opposite sex" but they can't have the word woman

#C4GenderWars Stephen Whittle (born female) will be delighted to see she is in fact named, with her academic title.

#C4GenderWars No-one is pretending you don't exist, Stephen, please stop with the lies.
Oops, first mention of the TWAW TMAM NBIAV mantra. No need to repeat here.
Break now but just first section shows how unusual it is to have noth sets of voices together in the same programme.

#C4GenderWars So good #NoDebate is now over & we to see more broadcasters finding a spine & daring to produce programming that the public want, need, to see, to help them understand why women get screamed up on a regular basis (we refer you to Prof Stock at Oxford Union tonight)

#C4GenderWars Prof Stock making a perfectly calm and rational statement that no-one can change sex, regardless of surgical or hormonal changes

#C4GenderWars Body parts can be used to commit harm and crime (Katy Jon) but penises do need to be attached to males to commit rape, Katy, don't they?

#C4GenderWars Central issue is who might present a risk to women, who is male. Enough male sexual predators exist that means that women can't tell the good from the bad.

#C4GenderWars Gina Gwenffrei, male, difficult to talk about trans rights vs women's rights (er no, it's not, really).
Katy Jon talking about peeing in a female toilet, realising if someone heard his voice they'd assume there was a male in there and be scared

#C4GenderWars "How woman am I"? We think that's a pretty binary answer we're afraid. Now talking about how males can abuse having an identity of woman to access women's spaces.
Isla Bryson alert!

#C4Genderwars Note, have to say this is genuinely, in our opinion, a balanced discussion, Adjacent voices that are almost never in the same room and need to be.

Now on to discussion of #GRRBill on Scotland. Gwen says the questioning of the process that will remove the safeguarding in the current system means he has a sense of distress by the policy making that is making it an existential questioningly of trans people's identities

#C4GenderWars Finn Mckay, younger adults are.more likely to accept self ID and pronouns (they'll learn...). Cass, Lily and William, students at Cambridge Uni discuss their awareness of their own gender

#C4GenderWars There are not just men or women, same throughout history, difficult to live in a world that does not understand you does not want to understand you. Discussions of sex and gender are not helpful.

#C4GenderWars Debate at Cambridge Union, Prof Stock talks about the hesitation walking into the confrontational protest when speaking at the Union debate. Right to hold a view perceived as offensive

#C4GenderWars Tough watch, seeing a student denounce Stock to her face, accusing her of hate (no evidence). Male student saying he is disgusted by Stock and her views. Male student acknowledges he ambushes Stock and it was right.

#C4GenderWars Stock's rebuttal. Arena-like environment. Says younger audience is terrified of causing offence.

#C4GenderWsrs Point if academia is to say what you think after thought. So keep says she's already thought of as transphobic and there is nothing to repair that in the student's minds but she must continue speaking up anyway

#C4GenderWars OK hands up, whose seen any Stock-based hatred yet? Anyone?

#C4GenderWars Scotland is coming, I can sense it...

#C4GenderWars Stock talking about coming out as a lesbian, such a personal fight. Lifelong unease with womanhood.
Katy doesn't do skirts or makeup bit says we judge on appearance.
Stock says she has been mistaken for a man

#C4GenderWars Stock worried that people will be transitioning where it won't be right for them. Currently 0.5% population calls themselves trans.
Charlie, explaining a transition is a long & slow process.

#C4GenderWars Norwich Council on 2022 TDOR passed motion that TWAW and TMAM. Hate Crime has increased, could be better reporting, could be more comfortable reporting.
For some seeing TWAW is problematic.

#C4GenderWars SCOTLAND!!!

#C4GenderWars Marion from @ForWomenScot & Scottish witches, once you say you support women's rights you are labelled a TERF, it's dehumanising, intended to misrepresent.

#C4GenderWars Stock saying she is full of admiration for.women have got Involved in this fight (💪). Young witch saying you have to accept you will lose friends by having this opinion. But also gain new ones. Other young witch says she has a lot of respect for women like Stock

#C4GenderWars Says a lot of reliance on older generation to get us out of this mess. Oh yeah.
Katy Jon, emotional state has been magnified so it's difficult to back down from. Lack of dialogue means conversations like this are rare.
Linda Bellos! Has forged friendship with Katy

Can have good conversations despite diversity of views. #C4GenderWars
Gwen saying some people want to take away trans people's rights (no detail of want though).
Katy wants to humanise debates, needs more alcohol.

#C4GenderWars Trans and cis together hymn in Norwich.
Self ID is on hold in Scotland (thank god).
Julie's says being called an anti-trans bigot hurts.
Katy says TWAW is not the hill he wants to die on. How are people respect and safe.

#C4GenderWars Stock says she won't think about restoring her reputation, what's the point for something that's impossible. Will just keep talking with reasonable people.

#C4GenderWars And that's the end. It was surprisingly calm, no need to have stewards to watch our backs, no screaming, drumming, no Caberet of Hate. Calm. Opinions. Makes you wonder we aren't able to do this.more often (and women are not the ones saying no debate).