3) the level at when our civilization becomes impossible.
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All these are essentially unknowable, but there seems a lot of consensus, on how around 3C of warming, it'd make it difficult for our civilization to persist.
However, there could be serious problems that could lead to the collapse of our civilization at a much lower level.
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General impacts could create social and political instability in the medium/near term, that could destabilize our societies, and lead to collapse or global conflict. These needn't be of the big impact type, that would make our Civilization impossible.
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Finally, and most frighteningly, there are the possibility of short term, Black Swan events, such as food shortages, which could happen, any time from this year onwards.
We are far enough into climate related extreme weather events, where a likely unforeseen perfect storm of extreme weather events, could impact, global food supplies.
There needn't be absolute shortages to create chaos.
Merely limited supplies, could cause hyperinflation, social unrest, and global conflict. Whilst this tends to be thought of as further in the future, we can not rule them out, as happening any year now. This is not a prediction, just a possibility.
There's little understanding of how vulnerable our societies are, and how this type of event, could cause rapid instability, and even eventually, whole system collapse. I'm not trying to be alarmist, and I hope nothing like this is on the horizon.
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I'm merely pointing out, that we've let things go too far, and near term shocks, cannot be ruled out, even if it is more likely, these shocks will be further into the future.
We have already seen extreme weather events, that have taken society by surprise.
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We just have to hope that none of these extreme weather events occur together in major food producing regions. It's beyond absurd, what we are left, just hoping it doesn't happen, because our governments and system, are ill-prepared.
It is, as I say, far more likely these impacts, will happen further into the future. The further we go into the future, with rising emissions, the more likely there will be a Black Swan event, that will catch us out.
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One of the problems, is that government planning, and academic climate scenario projections, tend to be focused on the longer term limits and big climate impacts, rather than the lower risk of a near term Black Swan event.
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Whilst near term Black Swan events are probabilistically far less likely, less probable things do happen, and they certainly can't be ruled out. Likewise, how they occur, is almost impossible to predict.
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It could vary from a whiff of grapeshot warning, with some local famine, supply problems, even greater food inflation than currently, to an all out crisis, that means our societies will never been the same again.
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We've been playing with fire, letting things get this bad. We're definitely seeing more extreme weather events, record heat, threats of wet bulb temperatures, exceeding human survival limits, none of which can be predicted accurately.
This is why I say, those saying this is not an emergency don't know what they are talking about. Because these things cannot be ruled out, and are real possibilities. We really shouldn't have been ignoring this possibility of short term Black Swan events.
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I think one of the reasons governments have not properly planned for near term Black Swan events, is they've been trying to put off taking action. They don't want the public to panic, and demand more radical action, they're reluctant to take.
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My purpose for raising this, is not to create alarm, but to create the impetus, for more contingency planning for food shortages in the near term. Because if we're prepared, it shouldn't be catastrophic. Whereas if it takes is by surprise, without contingency planning.
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I can say things like this, because I don't have any official position to worry about, and my following and influence is not big enough to create panic.
That's all I wanted to say, that we need to be aware and wary of short term impacts, even if they are less likely.
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I have been repeatedly warning for decades that the climate and ecological crisis, could create major food shortages and threaten our civilization far earlier than predictions imply.
As I spelled out in this thread only 2 days ago, if extreme weather events line up around the world in any given year. Extreme rainfall in some areas, lack of rainfall in others, extreme heat in others, hurricanes, - it'd cause global food shortages.
We have already seen many regional agricultural impacts, which can be compensated, by surpluses elsewhere. But what happens, if there's a perfect storm and various impacts, cause shortages across the globe?
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I think we need to sound the alarm, not just about climate change itself, but if our governments, corporations, and financial institutions, have ever really committed to addressing the climate crisis. If the whole supposed campaign has been a fraud.
Ever since the 1992 Rio Earth Summit, our governments, and big business, have supposedly been committed to addressing the climate crisis. The most obvious way to achieve this, was to reduce emissions, by phasing out fossil fuels. But our governments never committed to this.
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Governments and big business, were always very careful, to avoid any commitment to any meaningful action, to reduce either the production or burning of fossil fuels. The can was always kicked further down the road. Resulting in a continued rise in emissions.
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I have become increasingly alarmed at the totally unrealistic thinking and dialogue, surrounding the climate and ecological crisis.
This is my reason for threads on matters like blaming the human species for the climate crisis, or human driven megafauna extinctions.
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I keep seeing topics like this crop up, in discussions about the climate and ecological crisis.
They are total distractions, sending people down completely blind alleyways of thinking.
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The reason I usually try to remain focused on the very rich, billionaires, corporations, governments, politicians etc, is not to blame them, or scapegoat them, as is repeatedly claimed. It's because they have all the power and influence.
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Not once have the advocates of the "overkill hypothesis" and human induced ancient megafauna extinctions, ever attempted to even acknowledge, let address the enormous inconsistencies in the "overkill hypothesis". They just make further unsupported assertions.
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They ask further questions, which are impossible to answer, such as why didn't these species become extinct in previous interglacial periods. When we have no evidence to properly compare the Holocene to these previous interglacials. This is not debate.
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@AnnieLeymarie @LandEthics @JCSvenning As I've said, I wasn't looking for an apology. But I did tell you very clearly that I had no memory of blocking Dr Gill on this issue. You carried on saying this.
Let me explain why I said I was going to close down any attempted debate on this matter.
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@AnnieLeymarie @LandEthics @JCSvenning Over a very long time, I have put up a huge number of major inconsistencies over the "overkill hypothesis", which has more holes than a piece of Swiss cheese. It really shouldn't exist, and should never have got past peer review.
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@AnnieLeymarie @LandEthics @JCSvenning Despite me repeatedly laying out these inconsistencies, citing massive evidence. The advocates for the "overkill hypothesis" have yet to even acknowledge any of the major inconsistencies in the "overkill hypothesis" I've highlighted.
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I want to briefly outline my objection, to early humans, caused the megafauna extinction meme, but most of all, how it is deeply damaging to an understanding of the climate and ecological crisis. Highly misleading, and distorts thinking.
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I think most people are familiar with the "overkill hypothesis". This started out, that shortly after humans arrived in the Americas, the megafauna, Mammoths etc, died out, and that this was due to humans overhunting them.
This was expanded to other regions of the world, and often used to support the claim, that humans as a species are inherently destructive. That actually, the modern climate and ecological crisis, is just a continuation of the long history of our species.
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