@jricole Those 9th century writings were based on earlier writings
like Abi Mikhnaf who was born in 7th century but lived mainly in 8th century. writing down hadith was banned among sunnis but not writing as a whole: letters, contracts, administrative documents, were in writing..
like Abi Mikhnaf who was born in 7th century but lived mainly in 8th century. writing down hadith was banned among sunnis but not writing as a whole: letters, contracts, administrative documents, were in writing..
@jricole It is known Zhuri had his personal notes,... Shii situation was also different writing was encouraged and emphasized See: 
@jricole Date of Quran's canonization will also put an end cap for the date of the life of prophet Muhammad, it should be before the former. We can look to Quranic quotations in the well known orations. Those orations would not have the effect & power without the Quranic quotation.
@jricole Those quoted verses are stated in the support of the main theme of the oration & should have been known by the audience (the common people) very well. Without those political orations many of these monumental events would not have happened or would happened differently.
@jricole It is not surprising that NRA and Wayne Lapier appeal to the 2nd amendment for their proGun activities. But there must be a well known 2nd amendment as part of a well respected and accepted document that they can appeal too.
@jricole An example of a monumental event in the 1st century of Islam with very important long lasting historical ramifications
& with many important Orations all referencing directly or indirectly alluding to Quranic verses is the event of Husayn ibn Ali's uprising (Ashura) in 61 AH.
& with many important Orations all referencing directly or indirectly alluding to Quranic verses is the event of Husayn ibn Ali's uprising (Ashura) in 61 AH.
@jricole Among the orations see the text of Zaynab and Umm Kulthum's ( Husayn's Sisters) Orations all full of references to the Quranic verses. Please see:
@jricole If it is said the literary historian Ibn Tayfur made up these orations, we have to say that we are now in the domain of science fiction "Terminator" or pseudo science "Young Earth Creationists style".
@jricole Without Zaynab/Umm Kulthum's khutbah's & without the power& authority of Quranic verses quoted in the oration , the memory of that tragic event would no have been etched in the psyche of people that for 70 years after that we see continuous rebellion till Umayyads are toppled.
@jricole There is not a good or bad or full or partial historical revisionism. History books should be assumed correct until shown contradictory or wrong then those parts are ignored or adjusted. Revisionism considers Islamic history books are all guilty wrong until proven right.
@jricole Therefore throws all history books away & then selectively brings back parts they prefer. Assuming those Historians made up all those history books is first a disrespect to the field itself. What goes around comes around. Contemporary Historians can easily be labelled Fake news.
@jricole I wish at least those muslim historians had been awarded a noble literature award posthmously .
@jricole This full revisionistic doubt regarding the history books of a civilization has only been applied to early Islamic civilization. If doubting everything & essentials becomes the norm It is not your scholarly, hard worked & researched book that is read the most,..
@jricole I know you will reply I am not a revisionist. I have published a manifesto against revisionism,.. but i do not think the partial revisionism and Dr. Fred Donner essentially much better, It is a guess/conjecture work not out of historical evidence, ...
@jricole Similar to parts of physics (SuperString) which there is no experiment to separate right from wrong,but at last there is the mathematical beauty to guide. Here it seems maybe not for you&Dr Donner, but for a few others main motivation is to make Islam similar to christianity.
@jricole Taking Islam out of the Full light of History. Even if it is not full light but it is not definitely dark cave of unknowness.
@jricole @threadreaderapp unroll
@jricole I know you Dr Cole are not a die hard or even a fan of revisionism and therefore maybe I should have addressed my comments to hardline revisionist,but it is the negotiating season for the UAW union,..they usually pickup the most friendly/listening company first for negotiation.
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