Thread by @copscampaign

This afternoon at the #SpycopsInquiry
we hear more from 'Peter Fredericks', #spycops officer HN345....
Join @out_of_lives
over on youtube for their read-along with another special guest: youtube.com/channel/UC9vFz…

@out_of_lives In regard to the Black Power activists
HN345 says he never witnessed any violence, or public disorder. He has no memory of the group committing criminal offences.

@out_of_lives Did they encourage disorder?
HN345 said this was “difficult to answer”, and seemed unable to give a coherent reply.

@out_of_lives Did he think his spying on Black Power was useful?
He thought it was worth keeping an eye on them. His view remains the same now although “it's not something I think about a lot”.

@out_of_lives Fredericks doesn't think the Inquiry have seen all of his reports – there are very few in the bundle – and says he was “fully occupied” during his months with the squad.

@out_of_lives PS: No we don't know why the 'live transcript' still hasn't appeared on the @ucpinquiry youtube channel - the hearing began on time and we've been doing our best to respect the ten-minute delay but it's extra hard without that public stream to refer to

#SpycopsInquiry

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry We looked at the squad's Annual Report, written at the end of 1971 [MPS-0728971/4]
Action Bangla Desh is listed as having been 'penetrated' by the #spycops, but Operation Omega isn't.

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry Were any other officers reporting on Action Bangla Desh, or would this have referred to your work, HN345?

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry What about the Afro Asian American Association?
The Black Defence Committee?
The Black Unity & Freedom Party (BUFP)?
HN345 claims no memory of him or any of his colleagues spying on these groups

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry He left the field after a relatively short time. He said that when he joined the #spycops he was told that he'd be looked after, but when he left there was precious little after-care.

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry “It was if I was no longer part of the system, then my existence doesn't matter, my opinion doesn't matter, get on with the rest of your life”

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry He went through a'positive vetting' process (as did all Special Branch officers) but it appears that one of his referees was in fact a Russian spy. This caused problems.

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry He saw a psychiatrist over his deployment ended. He felt this was a waste of time, and doesn't know why his managers sent him to see someone.

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry Why were the #spycops techniques more effective that normal Special Branch operations?
"I have my views but I'm ready to admit that I'm wrong"

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry He suggested that the police's methods were problematic because activists could work out who the undercovers were by setting up traps for them.

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry HN345 believed that being more deeply embedded with the activists meant he was able to gather more info from them.

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry His statement describes a road traffic accident – he did what he had been trained to do as a normal police officer – he went to the nearest police station. However he wasn't carrying his warrant card with him, so it was a sticky situation.

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry This made his managers unhappy, but had never provided him with any guidance about what to do in this kind of situation. HN345 believes he acted correctly.

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry Sometimes he thought his deployment (spying on Black Power) was a waste of time but he assumed that there were people higher up than him, who had an overview of the 'landscape', who considered his deployment a good use of resources.

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry He doesn't remember meeting any other police officers of 'mixed heritage'
Says he did not experience any racism, nor hear any racist comments, while serving in the SOS.

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry He did not attend any of the #spycops social events or reunions

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry He recalled that the Claimants Union was infiltrated – by a fellow #spycop who falsely claimed benefits using his fake cover identity

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry Mike Ferguson infiltrated the Stop the Seventy Tour campaign and the anti apartheid movement

He has no memory of HN294 [name kept secret]

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry After a bizarre comparison with Drugs squad undercovers 'sampling the product'
HN345 went on to say
“If these people are in a certain environment where it is necessary to engage that little more deeply, than shall we say I find this acceptable.

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry to loud gasps from those in the hearing room, he wnet on to say:
"But I do worry about the consequences for the female [!] and any children that may result from the relationship, so yes, it shouldn't be done"

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry That was the last of the questions from David Barr, but it looks very likely that the non state core participants' barrister will have questions for HN345!

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry Rajiv Menon QC asked Mitting for permission to ask about three topics:
racism in the force
Operation Omega
the Black Power movement

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry Mitting allowed this.

Menon: In 1971, is it fair to say that your mixed heritage was more visibly apparent than it is now?

You said that you didn't experience any racism at all within the police, neither in the uniformed police nor in Special Branch (incl the SOS) ?
No, none

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry He was unwilling to agree that racism was a problem in British society at the time, and says he doesn't remember everything,

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry HN345 talked about how disparaging things might be said “with humour. I think it's called irony”

he doesn't recall statements “condemning black people or coloured people or anything like that”

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry One of his colleagues was allegedly unhappy that their work “militated against the rights of people who were not fully received by the wider society”

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry Mitting intervened when Menon tried to refer to a SOS document from that time
The Chair grudgingly allowed this, but made a point of saying that he did not want to set any precedent by this.

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry This was [MPS-0739148] – Menon explained that it was dated 1969 – so nothing to do with Fredericks

@out_of_lives @ucpinquiry It relates to a conviction at the Central Criminal Court in February 1969
Near the end, it includes details of the man's involvement in the Vietnam Solidarity Campaign and Black Power groups, then states “he has the usual attitude of coloured people towards police and authority”.

Is this the kind of causal banter you were referring to, or something more sinister? asked Menon.

"What I'm reading could be described as a broad brush stroke” HN345 responded
And went on about some kind of colour-blind world that he believes we live in.

Menon pointed out that Operation Omega was a very small, London-based group that was involved in taking humanitarian aid during the war between India and Pakistan during 1971.

Who asked you to infiltrate them?

He wasn't asked to infiltrate them, he “found himself in this group” and claims he was then authorised (but “not in so many words”) to continue spying on them.

Asked about the aims and objectives of the squad, he said they were trying “to reduce or eliminate unhelpful behaviour on the part of certain individuals within these various groups”.

How many reports do you think you submitted on Operation Omega?
HN345 cannot recall – he said writing reports was the “least exciting part of my day” - but reckons he would have written several reports a week over the six months he was in the field.

Finally, asked about his time spying on the Black Power movement, he said that he “fell into” it.
Asked if Special Branch had a Black Power desk, he said “Not to my knowledge”.

The man mentioned in your statement, who was your main link to the movement – which group(s) was he part of?

HN345 cannot recall, and says that if his name was unredacted, this might help jog his memory.

Unfortunately Menon has no access to the unredacted name so cannot assist.

Menon: Do you remember the case of the Mangrove 9?
HN345: Not clearly, no

Menon filled him in with the basic details of this highly-publicised case, which was heard at the Old Bailey in October 1971.

Hn345 then said that he wasn't “closely involved” but refused to be drawn on any knowledge or involvement in this controversial case.

In the bundle there are 3 reports of Fredericks attending Black Power meetings.
How many does he think he attended over those 6 months?
He went to several meetings every week, and sometimes more than one per day.

He did not remember the name of the man (mentioned earlier) who made the MI5 spy in the room accusation.

Ruth Brander was then given a chance to ask the witness some questions.

She wanted to ask HN345 about two issues:
Peter Hain's lawyer has asked her to raise issues that Barr didn't.
And relationships.

HN345's written statement was put up on-screen. See ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/upl…

It mentions him gathering information about the STST campaign and Black Power movement, before he joined the SOS.

There was something about people from STST not wishing to associate with Fredericks and he was asked to explain.
“I have no way of knowing why they chose not to be involved with me”.

He explained that if people didn't want to have anything to do with him, he would move on, and not waste his time worrying about why.

He said his tactic was to be sociable – he spent his time listening to what people had to say - “a pub is a very nice place” to catch them off-guard – he would pass on whatever he picked up.

“I just did my bit” - he let his managers decide what to do with the info he gathered.
This was how he operated when he was doing his undercover 'street work'.

He was seen as v successful at this, and received a 'compliment' from the security service
(“I wouldn't go so far as to call it a commendation” he now says).

Did you know that the info you gathered about the STST was going to the security services?
His lengthy response included “the system needed to know about it and I was pushing the information up”

And what about the South African security services?
He didn't have much of a response to this, a weak “no”.

Brander brought up the issue of sexual relationships again. Earlier on, he said he was surprised the matter had been raised...

His latest outrageous statement included “you're gazing into a darkened room you're looking for a black can you see that that may not be there....”

“That's the way we lived”.
He said the situation with these relationships was "hugely confusing"

"You could call it deception" he admitted.
And speaking of the #spycops who committed these abuses: “Perhaps my view is they have no choice”

Brander ended her questions with:
Do you think your colleagues from then would sympathise with your views?
"I'm very confident we never discussed this. It never came up" HN345 responded.

Mr Sanders had no questions for the witness.
Mitting is still struggling with the technology (esp the mute button).

That's it from the #SpycopsInquiry for now. The next 'public' hearings are likely to take place in March/ April 2021.